49 warrior help

Rivfader

OG
So I'm making a 49 warrior and I was looking at some armories but they were all for horde, I was hoping to get an armory link of a chardev of a perfect alli 49 warry.
 
Rivfader said:
So I'm making a 49 warrior and I was looking at some armories but they were all for horde, I was hoping to get an armory link of a chardev of a perfect alli 49 warry.
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character planner . 49 stuff - chardev.org assuming you're going human



mix/match as you please, there are substitutes for some of the items, neck, trinkets, boots, rings and so on, though, the chardev linked should give you the general idea of how to gear.



as long as you stay above 3.8k hp and have 40 hit rating you can't go wrong when paired with a healer or two
 
Next question, what enchant for my 1h for when I have to go SnB? I was thinking battlemaster on thrash blade but would mongoose be better for the dodge on the agi proc? I'm thinking defensive stats here.
 
1st off go with either axe of rin'ji or viking warhammer. both have 11 stamina vs none on thrash, and you wanted defensive stats. next you have to decide on which you want...rinji has 5 agi, which helps dodge, crit, armor AND it has a significantly faster attack speed. warhammer has 5 strength which is attack power and block value, but it also attacks slower; it has a bit more dps and hits harder due to slower speed. for pure defensive id say rinji. for a mix of defensive and offensive go warhammer.

thrash blade seems nice, but has no stats. extra attack is a kind of low proc rate, and certainly doesnt help defensively.



as for enchants...battlemaster is ok. judging from wowhead comments it has a pretty low proc rate. also the heal is pretty small..180-300 damage is a white attack or two from melee or a spell cast from ranged. mongoose gives 120 agi which is some nice doge and armor defensively, plus crit and haste for hitting attackers. crusader is also viable since it gives a decent heal, as well as giving 100 strength which gives a sizeable boost to ap and block value.



p.s. just for further comparison, warhammer has more dps than thrash + stats, and only looses a small bit of damage b/c of the difference in speed (2.4 vs 2.7)...overall id say warhammer is a lot better unless you are in love with low procs for an extra white swing (which in turn can miss, be dodged, parried, or glanced just like any swing). pretty much a toss up between rinji and warhammer, i used to use have both depending on what i was feeling at the time.
 
Well if I use a proc enchant for my SnB then it has to be a slow weapon to increase proc chance off of instant attacks. Mostly I'm wondering what people use for their FC enchant, mongoose seems best to me but idk, I'm new to the bracket. If I was horde i'd go azsharite sword with lifeward all the way :p



edit: actually a whole FC set chardev would be awesome if anyone has the time.
 
nearly all, if not all, proc's are ppm. they are normalized to give no specific advantage to having a slower or faster weapon. sure sometimes you get a string of 2-3 mongoose procs back to back, but thats just random odds...over a large period of time the procs will come out to X procs per minute, where X is what people have already tested and shown.

instant attacks dont matter either...you're still capped by either rage or energy and can only make a certain amount of attacks regardless of weapon speed (actually with a faster weapon you can spam HS faster, and have more white attacks). so hopefully that clears things up a bit



so it goes back to what you want:

battlemaster: low ppm, 180-300 heal (can crit iirc)...which isnt that large when you think about it. only thing going for it is that it heals your party - but only within 5-10 yars, not across the map or anything. 180-300 is an attack or two at best, so meh.

crusader: low ppm, uhh 75-150 heal i think, pretty sure it can crit, and 100 strength. this adds to block value which is more mitigation. also boosts offensive stats via AP and sbv...yea being defensive is nice, but ya aint just gonna sit there and take the hits w/o attacking back! this is pretty much best of both worlds imo

or mongoose: low ppm, 120 agi + small haste increase. agility is armor and dodge for defense. agi = crit for offense, and that lil haste boost isnt so bad either.



i personally used crusader on my prot set, nice heal and defensive+offensive stat boost. really the best of both worlds imo.
 
Rivfader said:
You don't understand how weapon speed affects ppm off of instant weapon attacks (i.e. Revenge)
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weapon speed doesnt effect (or affect) instants like revenge. whether you have a 2.0 or a 1.4 its still an instant attack, and each attack has a chance to proc the enchant.

for next swing attacks (ex. HS), which are being removed in cata btw, speed does matter. with a faster weapon you can HS spam faster. faster HS = more hits = more chances to proc. but since HS eats a white attack, it balances out since that slow wep will be hitting a white attack while the quick weapon is using HS. the difference is that with 5% cap you wont miss a HS (unless facing, ne, evasion, etc) but that white hit can be avoided.

also fast weapons generate less rage per hit (subject to change in cata), but hit more often; slow weapons hit harder (more rage, subject to change), but less frequently. it really all balances it out, and thats how blizzard has designed it.

whether you have that fast weapon and get a bit more white hits and quicker HS, or a slow weapon that hits fewer times';over a laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge sample pool they have roughly the same ppm chance.



ex. a warrior using a slow 2h + berserking side by side with a rogue using berserking MH should have similar procs rates over an extended period of time auto swinging...can be swayed b/c of specials (like s&d, etc)...but again, blizz designed this so weapon speed isnt a huge factor



if you can prove im wrong, other than by simply saying i dont understand (proof, link to other sites, etc) then please do so. or just go with your gut and use a slow weapon....its your toon. but im pretty positive im right regarding ppm and weapon speed
 
I dont mean to sound rude, I do appreciate the help, but it is well established that slower weps = more procs from instant attacks. Tresspasser did some very nice math in the 19 forums that I can't find atm but I will try to paraphrase:



Say you have a 3 sec wep and a 6 ppm enchant (fiery is a good example) this means that you will have 20 white swings in a minute - 60/3 - so out of those 20 hits 6 will proc the enchant giving you a 30% chance per hit to proc the enchant - 6/20. This % chance is applied to your instants meaning that every time you use an instant attack - rend, overpower, MS - it has a 30% chance to proc the enchant outside of the normal ppm from white attacks.



Now lets say that instead of a 3 sec wep you have a 1 sec wep (I'm using whole numbers here cause I'm lazy) with the same 6 ppm enchant. You now have 60 white swings in a minute 6 of which will proc the enchant. Your % chance per hit now drops to 10% and this is applied to all your instant attacks.



By using a weapon that is 1/3 the speed you have now gimped your procs from instant attacks by 2/3.



I'm not as eloquent or good at math as some of the other people here but it is a pretty simple concept that can, and has been tested using recount.
 
It depends on if the instant attack is normalized - MOST instant attacks in wow are normalized, and therefore are independent of weapon speed.



I have done a lot of work on the mongoose enchant, and have found old theory craft to be flawed, incorrect or just invalid.



You cannot say how a proc will work in the limit, because we don't know in what time frames the game engine normalizes data, and what type of random function it uses, we must think about what happens in smaller time frames - especially for PvP.



Some of you might be familiar with a random walk, the size of the probability determines how quickly the function in time will return to its expected value. What this means is that a bigger probability to proc means less deviation from the expectation, and will mean that the slower weapon will PROBABLY get to its expected proc rate in fewer swings that the faster weapon, with less proc chance per hit.
 
Rivfader said:
Say you have a 3 sec wep and a 6 ppm enchant (fiery is a good example) this means that you will have 20 white swings in a minute - 60/3 - so out of those 20 hits 6 will proc the enchant giving you a 30% chance per hit to proc the enchant - 6/20. This % chance is applied to your instants meaning that every time you use an instant attack - rend, overpower, MS - it has a 30% chance to proc the enchant outside of the normal ppm from white attacks.
Click to expand...



this is just not true. 30% chance to proc would be the expected value under best conditions, but that does not mean 6 out of those 20 hits WILL proc it. you have just as good a chance to see 3 procs or 12, its not guaranteed. also each individual hit has a chance to proc the enchant regardless of speed, white hit or special attack.

if you have a 30% proc chance but hit 20 times a minute or have a 10% proc rate but hit 60 times a minute....it all balances out over an extended period of time. you havent gimped your procs, its the exact same thing! and thats what blizzard did to normalize weapon procs and give no distinct advantage to fast or slow. see how the fast weapon has a 3x lower proc chance, but hits 3x as much? it all averages out...and those are just the expected values, results may vary with small sample sizes.

as for instants....i do not believe that value is applied to instants, but idk for sure. even if it was, with the fast weapon you should be using instants faster (ex. HS) than with a slow weap which should help balance it.
 
Falkor said:
this is just not true. 30% chance to proc would be the expected value under best conditions, but that does not mean 6 out of those 20 hits WILL proc it. you have just as good a chance to see 3 procs or 12, its not guaranteed. also each individual hit has a chance to proc the enchant regardless of speed, white hit or special attack.

if you have a 30% proc chance but hit 20 times a minute or have a 10% proc rate but hit 60 times a minute....it all balances out over an extended period of time. you havent gimped your procs, its the exact same thing! and thats what blizzard did to normalize weapon procs and give no distinct advantage to fast or slow. see how the fast weapon has a 3x lower proc chance, but hits 3x as much? it all averages out...and those are just the expected values, results may vary with small sample sizes.

as for instants....i do not believe that value is applied to instants, but idk for sure. even if it was, with the fast weapon you should be using instants faster (ex. HS) than with a slow weap which should help balance it.
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You're not understanding, the procs from white hits will be equal but you will have more procs from instants, thats where the advantage of slower weps is. Beyond that any instant that strikes with weapon damage will hit harder (yes I know about AP normalization but the actual wep damage isn't normalized).



I would also like to point out that HS is not an instant, it is on next attack. When I say instant I mean attacks that strike independantly of your autoattack e.g. MS, OP, rend.



I really dont feel like debating this anymore though, I'm just trying to build an FC set.
 
theseffygene said:
It depends on if the instant attack is normalized - MOST instant attacks in wow are normalized, and therefore are independent of weapon speed.



I have done a lot of work on the mongoose enchant, and have found old theory craft to be flawed, incorrect or just invalid.



You cannot say how a proc will work in the limit, because we don't know in what time frames the game engine normalizes data, and what type of random function it uses, we must think about what happens in smaller time frames - especially for PvP.



Some of you might be familiar with a random walk, the size of the probability determines how quickly the function in time will return to its expected value. What this means is that a bigger probability to proc means less deviation from the expectation, and will mean that the slower weapon will PROBABLY get to its expected proc rate in fewer swings that the faster weapon, with less proc chance per hit.
Click to expand...



By no means am I implying that those procs are GUARENTEED, we're just talking about improving probabilities here.
 
i dont see why instants are effected by weapon swing. but w/e use an inferior weapon, its your setup.
 
Rivfader said:
edit: actually a whole FC set chardev would be awesome if anyone has the time.
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character planner . stam stacking, 49 - chardev.org

stam stacking



if you feel a little too vulnerable wearing mail atal'ai non-plate gear, you can always get a pair of [item]Stalwart Treads[/item] of Stamina, [item]Elemental Rockridge Leggings[/item] etc.



as far as other pieces go, you can swap in [item]Helm of the Mountain[/item], [item]Cragfists[/item] of the Bear, [item]Warrior's Embrace[/item], Stalwart plate items with champion suffix and so forth, and if [item]Mark of the Chosen[/item] just isn't your kind of thang, you can swap it for another [item]Arena Grand Master[/item] or even [item]High-Powered Flashlight[/item] if you'd like some more reliability.



keep in mind though, [item]Fire Opal Necklace[/item] and [item]Dark Iron Ring[/item]s take bucketloads of patience, coffer keys and luck to get, and and [item]Arena Grand Master[/item] may be a bitch to get your hands on depending on your server





the spec and glyphs could probably be better and the weapon might not be optimal, but I went with a static increase rather than adding up to the confusion of the whole ppm/chants debate you guys had





and while we're on the subject of thrash blade, that weapon is so much fun, I used to have a screenshot of it proccing off hamstring then three or four times after one another
 
I would say yes, survivability is lower in this bracket due to the amount of burst so stamina is highly valued so you can live longer than a sneeze :).
 
i would not undervalue armor, avoidance and mitigation for a "tank"/fc either; a large portion of twinks are melee. however those stats are harder to gear for at 49 and use up more itemization points where as stamina is cheap and everywhere. it also protects you against melee and magic damage
 
Falkor said:
i dont see why instants are effected by weapon swing. but w/e use an inferior weapon, its your setup.
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This again...



The chance to proc enchants on instants is the same as the chance to proc enchants on autoattacks.



If a slow weapon has 10% chance to proc an enchant per swing, instant attacks also has a 10% chance to proc the enchant

If a fast weapon has a 2% chance to proc the same enchant per swing, instant attacks also has a 2% chance to proc the enchant.



It's been so for at least the last four years.
 
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