39 TESTING ON PTR! info inside

Moonwalks

OG
Ok so we wanted to see some results from all these changes with leg armors/shoulders/profs etc



so me (Onthejuice) and Whips from <Pro> Cyclone US copied over to PTR



I copied over my 39 mage and warrior, he brought over his 39 ret paly/hunter.



My mage is sitting at 1977hp on PTR. in Whips AP set, he drops me 100%-0% in 1 combat round, roughly ~5 seconds with lag etc.. and no crits.



exorcism is averaging 500 per cast.



With crits its an almost instant 1 shot with overkill from 300-600.



he's basically averaging about 1900 damage per combat round.



on my warrior in def stance, he'll take me from 100-0 in rough 10-12 seconds.



I'm planning to fraps this tomorrow and get some people viewing it, but I wanted to get this being talked about



cause right now i cant fathom not running a bunch of ret palys...
 
My 2 cents:



I've been playing this game for about 2 /12 years.



I've cleared all raids BC and Wrath.



I have twinks in both the 19s and 39s bracket.



I currently have two level 80's: an "epic as you can get" resto druid and a partially epic dps warr.



The raid content in Wrath blows, which is why I am currently spending most of my time twinking.



If this goes through as it seems on the PTR, Blizzard can kiss my $15/month goodbye.



Back to CS!
 
l2play a mage...ret paladins can hardly touch mine. they only have HoJ for a reliable CC and i can blink out of HoJ. if my blink is down i can imp CS (lolarcane) and poly them.



against hunters, i just use poly on them. i might take damage, but once they burn trinket it's easy to frost nova + blink away from them. if i'm having real problems, POM + poly easily gets them off my back.



against warriors...umm lol. blink on intercept...frost nova and cone of cold when i can..easy. if i'm having problems with them using trinket on FN and stuff, just trinket out of hamstring and use CDs at the right times.



i'm not going to quit just because i'll have 300 less health. i'm going to adapt, and work with what i have. it's not that big of a difference.
 
^^



Seems like you have to re-equate your setup for varying factors.



In other words, don't you wish you did do the farming for those rev gloves, etc?
 
1977 is pretty low hp. If you're expecting to get hit like that, I'd get to at least 2.5k hp. With all the nerfs, my priest is still going to be sitting around 3k hp.



I do think that in light of the changes, retadins may become too strong at 39. I'm not sure how to address that though. Ret has had OP dps for a while now, but the reason people don't just bring 5 retadins to a premade is because they'll still get screwed over by a coordinated combination of CCs.
 
Druiddroid said:
l2play a mage...ret paladins can hardly touch mine. they only have HoJ for a reliable CC and i can blink out of HoJ. if my blink is down i can imp CS (lolarcane) and poly them.



against hunters, i just use poly on them. i might take damage, but once they burn trinket it's easy to frost nova + blink away from them. if i'm having real problems, POM + poly easily gets them off my back.



against warriors...umm lol. blink on intercept...frost nova and cone of cold when i can..easy. if i'm having problems with them using trinket on FN and stuff, just trinket out of hamstring and use CDs at the right times.



i'm not going to quit just because i'll have 300 less health. i'm going to adapt, and work with what i have. it's not that big of a difference.
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i dont have to l2play anything, my entire point of that post had nothing to do with playing because we just tested his damage against cloth/mail with these changes to everything.



Ret paly dps is far superior now with exorcism being added to the mix and everyone across the board losing lots of health.



And 2k hp isnt that low honestly, 2.5k isnt really going to save you in most situations either, at least not anything outside of a 1v1, basically if 2 people are on any caster now, heals arent likely going to go off intime to save them.
 
Jadyn said:
1977 is pretty low hp. If you're expecting to get hit like that, I'd get to at least 2.5k hp. With all the nerfs, my priest is still going to be sitting around 3k hp.



I do think that in light of the changes, retadins may become too strong at 39. I'm not sure how to address that though. Ret has had OP dps for a while now, but the reason people don't just bring 5 retadins to a premade is because they'll still get screwed over by a coordinated combination of CCs.
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and right now your looking at losing ~900hp...so if u swap in AGM and 100hp leg libram your still missing ~680hp



and quite a bit of sp
 
Moonwalks said:
and right now your looking at losing ~900hp...so if u swap in AGM and 100hp leg libram your still missing ~680hp



and quite a bit of sp
Click to expand...



and most of that hp was unintended/grandfathered.
 
Moonwalks said:
i dont have to l2play anything, my entire point of that post had nothing to do with playing because we just tested his damage against cloth/mail with these changes to everything.
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ok, well playing is what it's all about :p

Ret paly dps is far superior now with exorcism being added to the mix and everyone across the board losing lots of health.
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i work with ~2.7k health unbuffed currently, and my mage has tons of survivability. ret paladins are the least of my concerns. they are easy to get away from.



just because ret paladins are going to have lots of burst, if you still gear your toon properly, with a healer you should be able to survive, unless perhaps if you're a warlock.



And 2k hp isnt that low honestly, 2.5k isnt really going to save you in most situations either, at least not anything outside of a 1v1, basically if 2 people are on any caster now, heals arent likely going to go off intime to save them.
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i've had plenty of people chasing my caster and it takes them time to kill me. i just make use of my CCs, blink, mana shield, etc.



the changes aren't that bad.
 
I will be very exited if they remove shoulder enchants and leg kits, hell I would be fine if they put lvl restrictions on all of the bc enchants and we were forced to use only prebc enchants. I played my warrior pre bc and it was the most fun I ever had on my warrior, none of this soulfrost or mongoose crap, people had to rely more on skill than the ability to vastly out gear your opponent.



I mean people can complain about all the money they wasted on their leg kits and enchants, deep down inside I think people are afraid they won't be able to play as well with the removal of these "crutches". I have confidence that my playstyle isnt going to drastically change because of the lose of 35 spell power and 200 hp. Yes I am kind of ticked off at the fact I grinded my ass off to get my zg shoulder enchant, is it going to make me stop playing my twink....hell no. I look forward to the challenge of relearning how to play a twink from the days when no one knew what a nethercleft was.



QQ as much as you want, I'm all for this change for the sole reason it will help weed out players that had to rely on having better gear than someone else in order to win. All these people saying they will quit if this goes live, good riddance one less cry baby to deal with.
 
Another note if this does go live:



The term itself "twinking" would really no logner apply amirite?



As far a I'm concerned, twinking IS vastly outgearing your opponents. Of course skill plays a large part of it (for most classes anyway), but without the sole ability to twink, it's no longer twinking... it's pvp at lowbie levels.



And no, it's not a "true test of skill" without the ability to twink, it's "let's see who rolled the OP classes."



These changes are going to wipe out twinking, plain and simple. No, not completely, but a vast majority of people will go back to raiding, level their "twinks", or simply quit. For me, it will be the latter.
 
Twinking to me means having the best possible gear, does it mean you have to vastly out gear our opponent...no. If you twink to
vastly outgearing your opponents
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you are def doing it wrong imo. I have been playing twinks for over 3 years now and to me twinking is the ability to create a character that you do not have to constantly have to worry about updating gear while still giving you the chance to compete against people with the same caliber of gear, not to roll people that you vastly outgear.



I know there are a lot of people with the mindset of just going into a BG and using their gear to their advantage in order to beat people, thats not twinking thats rolling pugs, twinking is testing your skill against people that you do not have an advantage over. The removal of enchants forces you to play better, its one less safety net, shortening the margin for error forcing you in return to play your character better.



If you are looking to stomp retards in wsg all day good luck and have fun doing 80 bg's, I'm exited because the removal of this extra stam just brings more of a challenge to twinks which I will welcome with open arms.
 
With these changes it's turning into more of a dps race.



-Decrease in health

-Increases in damage



It's not like all those non-twinks are gonna have that much more of a chance against a twink anyways. Twinks are still gonna steamrolled by non-twinks by 1-2 shotting them. This is only going to really affect twinks vs twinks making battles end alot quicker.



I can see from blizzards point of view in the 19 bracket which is ridiculous with the montser loads of health they can get but imo the 39 bracket was just fine and scaled fairly well with the damage/health in the 39 bracket.
 
I still respectfully disagree.





Twinking, as it is now, makes it much more fair for all classes to compete in some way. I don't twink to "stomp retards in wsg all day," (although I will admit it can be fun playing in God-mode every once in a while... but it does get old fast), I twink to get the best possible gear, and vastly outgear my opponents. Why? because I put in the work and they didn't. THAT is what twinking is all about. Putting in the effort, and in return getting that much more dps or survivability over your opponents. Now. of course, there are those on the other side of that flag that have the same goal in mind, but that's why we twink... to compete with the best of the best.



You simply cannot argue that.



Sure, we could still out gear our opponents who aren't "twinking" in each bracket, but the only "true test of skill" will be in duels outside Org against your own class, or a class very similar/balanced with yours.



All this is going to do is make it easier for Class A to out damage/heal Class B.



It's just going to turn out like PvP @ 80... broke and unbalanced as all hell.
 
irrespective of who's opinion i agree with about twinking, twinking can be whatever the person making their twink wants it to be. there is no right or wrong way to do it.



i've mentioned it multiple times in the bloodlust thread, physical dps isn't changing and in some cases seems to be even higher (ret paladins and apparently hunters on the ptr), hp is going to be dropping to less than what it would of been had leg patches stayed in. healers / casters wll have less SP meaning less dps and less healing so unless dps enchants are changed the 39 bracket is moving away from being balanced which has nothing to do with whether or not it will still be as playble or as much fun as it has been.



luckily i didn't spend any irl money on buying my naxx enchants just lots of gold but the time spent getting them and pride in finally obtaining them will be lost which is prety annoying.



what people have to realise is that people never started off their twinks with naxx from day 1 and 450/450 (mainly because they didnt exist back then). so all these people calling 'lols' about good players losing their 'crutches' should remember that 99% of the time the players they're trying to ridicule were recognised for their ability long before they got any grandfathered items or professions. and should those players think about quiting it's probably not because they have now lost their long flowing hair which grants them magical powers but more likely because they feel cheated by blizzard for wasting their time and effort and were probably looking for a reason to quit anyway.
 
Fatapult said:
irrespective of who's opinion i agree with about twinking, twinking can be whatever the person making their twink wants it to be. there is no right or wrong way to do it.



i've mentioned it multiple times in the bloodlust thread, physical dps isn't changing and in some cases seems to be even higher (ret paladins and apparently hunters on the ptr), hp is going to be dropping to less than what it would of been had leg patches stayed in. healers / casters wll have less SP meaning less dps and less healing so unless dps enchants are changed the 39 bracket is moving away from being balanced which has nothing to do with whether or not it will still be as playble or as much fun as it has been.



luckily i didn't spend any irl money on buying my naxx enchants just lots of gold but the time spent getting them and pride in finally obtaining them will be lost which is prety annoying.



what people have to realise is that people never started off their twinks with naxx from day 1 and 450/450 (mainly because they didnt exist back then). so all these people calling 'lols' about good players losing their 'crutches' should remember that 99% of the time the players they're trying to ridicule were recognised for their ability long before they got any grandfathered items or professions. and should those players think about quiting it's probably not because they have now lost their long flowing hair which grants them magical powers but more likely because they feel cheated by blizzard for wasting their time and effort and were probably looking for a reason to quit anyway.
Click to expand...



pretty much. the only thing different from vanilla wow is the classes themselves. damage will still be a lot higher than it used to be though, so id be a little worried about ret pallies/rogues/locks
 
useabandage said:
I will be very exited if they remove shoulder enchants and leg kits, hell I would be fine if they put lvl restrictions on all of the bc enchants and we were forced to use only prebc enchants. I played my warrior pre bc and it was the most fun I ever had on my warrior, none of this soulfrost or mongoose crap, people had to rely more on skill than the ability to vastly out gear your opponent.



I mean people can complain about all the money they wasted on their leg kits and enchants, deep down inside I think people are afraid they won't be able to play as well with the removal of these "crutches". I have confidence that my playstyle isnt going to drastically change because of the lose of 35 spell power and 200 hp. Yes I am kind of ticked off at the fact I grinded my ass off to get my zg shoulder enchant, is it going to make me stop playing my twink....hell no. I look forward to the challenge of relearning how to play a twink from the days when no one knew what a nethercleft was.



QQ as much as you want, I'm all for this change for the sole reason it will help weed out players that had to rely on having better gear than someone else in order to win. All these people saying they will quit if this goes live, good riddance one less cry baby to deal with.
Click to expand...



I agree nethercleft's are when the twink brackets started to get ruined. BoE over hard earned or well calculated BoP's was BS. This arena shoulder enchant thing is just stupid.



I'm kind of ticked that 19s won't be able to use any of the 60 stuff like 100hp chest and prob crusader/lifestealing. Plus no pant or head 100 hp enchants. I thought those were all pretty valid.
 
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