39 frost or fire mage?

[Dye]

I have seen quite a bit of mixed feelings on these two very different mage specs in the 39 bracket. I was wanting some ideas/opinions as to how they play in WSG for both if possible. I understand most people go fire, but after looking over a few things, I just don't see why fire over frost. Any input on either spec would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tetrica]

Both Frost and Fire are viable, although Frost gives what I deem to be invaluable control. Crits on demand (Shatters) and having a slow/snare tied to your main spell is nothing bad even though its potential sustainable damage is somewhat less than what Fire would give you.

 

[Tetrica]

Just because I'm bored I'm going to elaborate on this point a bit further.



First of all; Frostbolt vs. Fireball. I'd liken them both to utility vs. raw damage output. Now, at this point we have to ask ourselves: what role does the Mage fulfill? The answer to this question is that they are a primary support. Frostbolt brings the slow (and possible snare) whereas Fireball brings... nothing, except its damage.



Secondly; survivability. Now you can argue that Blastwave and Blazing Speed is the ultimate anti-melee setup. What you then have to realise is that to counter melee you need two things, range and slows. Rogues will cripple you, Warriors will apply Hamstring. The effect of Blazing Speed is now keeping you on par with the Warrior/Rogue, who can cover ground fast (Rogues have Vanish/Sprint to get out of situations, Warriors can Charge/Intercept) and you don't have access to the effect from the IV-glyph. Nor does a Fire Mage have access to the dual-Ice Block. Frostbite is also a great thing, especially vs. Rogues who will auto-hit you once every 1.2 seconds or so. The 15% snare-chance is great.



Thirdly; offensive capability. Fire has high sustained damage, but Frost brings the Shatters, and 100% increase of critical strike-damage. This equals great burst-potential. With all the self-healing and those effects in the bracket(AGM, Heavy Frostweave Bandage and Lifeblood), and the fact that you're a cloth-user, hardly helps if you want to outlast someone. Hence you often rely on burst, that Frost can bring on demand.

 

[Dye]

so if frost is overall much better dmg wise and utility wise, then why does everyone feel the need to do that fire spec thats like 0/27/3 i think? I mean i personally was going to go frost, just so I can be different from everyone else.

 

[Healthy]

Just because I'm bored I'm going to elaborate on this point a bit further.



First of all; Frostbolt vs. Fireball. I'd liken them both to utility vs. raw damage output. Now, at this point we have to ask ourselves: what role does the Mage fulfill? The answer to this question is that they are a primary support. Frostbolt brings the slow (and possible snare) whereas Fireball brings... nothing, except its damage.



Secondly; survivability. Now you can argue that Blastwave and Blazing Speed is the ultimate anti-melee setup. What you then have to realise is that to counter melee you need two things, range and slows. Rogues will cripple you, Warriors will apply Hamstring. The effect of Blazing Speed is now keeping you on par with the Warrior/Rogue, who can cover ground fast (Rogues have Vanish/Sprint to get out of situations, Warriors can Charge/Intercept) and you don't have access to the effect from the IV-glyph. Nor does a Fire Mage have access to the dual-Ice Block. Frostbite is also a great thing, especially vs. Rogues who will auto-hit you once every 1.2 seconds or so. The 15% snare-chance is great.



Thirdly; offensive capability. Fire has high sustained damage, but Frost brings the Shatters, and 100% increase of critical strike-damage. This equals great burst-potential. With all the self-healing and those effects in the bracket(AGM, Heavy Frostweave Bandage and Lifeblood), and the fact that you're a cloth-user, hardly helps if you want to outlast someone. Hence you often rely on burst, that Frost can bring on demand.

I've played a 39 Frost mage (tried fire aswell) a LOT. However, I found myself getting oom a lot as fire. If you roll fire you should (imo) ditch Fireball and go Scorch/Fireblast/Blastwave. You can aswell get the 3/3 frostbite which really would help out. As (let's call it) a Scorch Mage you should however not become a Glasscanon (High dmg - "Low" on other stats/Lower Survivability). Get a lot of mana.

The Blastwave and Impact make great interruptance.



As Frost I found myself able to handle more enemies at the same time. Great survivability, and a fast rank 1 frostbolt always comes in handy. I highly recommend you getting Iron Grenades and

Tidal Charm to keep the enemies in your novas.



Mage does great in this bracket, and I think you'd really enjoy it.





Edit: I have no idea why I quoted Tetrica Oo

 

[virre]

.

Fire > all

 

[perfect]

I played fire mainly and tryed frost on my 39 mage. .



As frost or fire your going to counter melee hard and they shouldnt be able to hit you in ethier spec.

Fire is better vs casters which will be your only problem, fire gives you two interupts (blastwave) and faster casts so its harder for casters to just pillar hump your frostbolts or dispel your nova's and if you don't crit shatter you lose. bla bla bla fire! For 1v1 poly then pyro is killer espcially with combustion a pyro or fireball crit with the added 40% will gurantee winage.

 

[Healthy]

I played fire mainly and tryed frost on my 39 mage. .



As frost or fire your going to counter melee hard and they shouldnt be able to hit you in ethier spec.

Fire is better vs casters which will be your only problem, fire gives you two interupts (blastwave) and faster casts so its harder for casters to just pillar hump your frostbolts or dispel your nova's and if you don't crit shatter you lose. bla bla bla fire! For 1v1 poly then pyro is killer espcially with combustion a pyro or fireball crit with the added 40% will gurantee winage.

You get Combustion at 40. Doesn't change your point of view though

 

[perfect]

You get Combustion at 40. Doesn't change your point of view though

Ah yeah my bad ;p makes me look stupid heh. Nope it doesnt xD.



Also throwing people off bridges in arena and off LM in AB is priceless with blastwave. With frost you only really have frostbolt for damage which is easily interruptible/los'able, cone costs too much mana to be used effectively. But with fire you have pyro,fireball,fireblast (stronger than frost with less cd + higher crit chance if talented),scorch and blastwave.

 

[Druiddroid]

fire gives more offensive control, frost more defensive control... also, fireball is not a good cast, scorch is better

 

[Tetrica]

Virre, who posted above, was massively successful in getting Fireballs off.

 

[Falaris]

Frost could be better for arenas (although personally id probably go with arcane for arenas), but fire is head and shoulders above the other 2 specs for wsg, specifically premades. Blastwave trumps pretty much everything a frost/arcane mage can do in a battleground for premade situations.

 

[Rezist]

(although personally id probably go with arcane for arenas)

Stopped reading there



Also, @ Perfect, if a healer wants to continuously LoS you as a Mage, he will do it and have zero problems vs. you no matter what spec you are. People say Fire has better offensive control? I consider a combination of 1 second frostbolts and regular frostbolts, both having an MS effect, 10/15% chance to proc a root & a 50% snare far better than 600 crit scorches, And I'd rank Cold snap miles & miles above anything else both as an offensive and defensive spell.



Who knows though, if you're playing with average people versus average people, maybe you wont notice any difference between any spec, but when you're actually in tough games where you have to play your best, take it from me Frost beats both specs for arena, and I dont see fire being that awesome in WSG, although from the premade vs. premade BG's I've done, A frost mage can be the MVP of either team, don't see Blastwave bettering cold snap, if you're hyping its AoE snare a lot (I hear mages in the middle of the fight last for ages ), Cone of Cold?

 

[elocon]

According to resisted you either play it his way or you're doing it wrong

 

[Rezist]

You rolled a pala cause you kept getting smashed on your arcane mage, don't rage at me man

 

[elocon]

Yes, I kept getting smached as a mage, when I was fire, frost and arcane. But that was not the reason why I rerolled and I never told/implyed to you that was the reason why I rerolled.

It's just that you are soo narrow-minded that you cant see that other people (beyond me) might consider another spec more useful becuase of certain thing's, you cant respect any other view than you're own, can you?

 

[Falaris]

Stopped reading there



Also, @ Perfect, if a healer wants to continuously LoS you as a Mage, he will do it and have zero problems vs. you no matter what spec you are. People say Fire has better offensive control? I consider a combination of 1 second frostbolts and regular frostbolts, both having an MS effect, 10/15% chance to proc a root & a 50% snare far better than 600 crit scorches, And I'd rank Cold snap miles & miles above anything else both as an offensive and defensive spell.



Who knows though, if you're playing with average people versus average people, maybe you wont notice any difference between any spec, but when you're actually in tough games where you have to play your best, take it from me Frost beats both specs for arena, and I dont see fire being that awesome in WSG, although from the premade vs. premade BG's I've done, A frost mage can be the MVP of either team, don't see Blastwave bettering cold snap, if you're hyping its AoE snare a lot (I hear mages in the middle of the fight last for ages ), Cone of Cold?

Pretty decent chance youre average yourself, and 100% chance that youre wrong if you say anything but fire is best for 39 premades.

 

[Rezist]

Yes, I kept getting smached as a mage, when I was fire, frost and arcane. But that was not the reason why I rerolled and I never told/implyed to you that was the reason why I rerolled.

It's just that you are soo narrow-minded that you cant see that other people (beyond me) might consider another spec more useful becuase of certain thing's, you cant respect any other view than you're own, can you?

How does listing strengths of a spec and comparing them to other specs make me narrow minded? Pretty sure anything I've listed to be better Frost wise i've backed up with fairly understandable facts/logic? So far most things everyone has said in this thread aren't good enough reasons to chose Fire over frost, either that or certain people are totally wrong with their opinions. I'm not being narrow minded, I'm merely stating my own opinion, and until someone comes with a strong argument as to why fire is better for arena - Blast wave/Blazing Speed is better than cold snap/Frostbite then I believe i'm in the right place with my opinions?



Notice I havent questioned 'Perfect' saying that for straight up caster duels, fire can get off stronger damage, quicker, when dealing with los, And yeah Poly > Pyro is good in duels. Seems like, Eloz, you're just annoyed that I throw my opinion over stronger than other people? Maybe thats true, and it won't take long for you to remember why. Now just get past your childish hate towards me and get back to the topic? No matter what I'm saying, I'm sticking on topic man...



Also you got smashed as arcane, if you got smashed as the other 2 specs as well then dayum you mustve played them each for about a day



EDIT @ falaris, I never said anything but Fire is best for 39 premades, I just said a Frost Mage can just as easily be the MVP of a match, and that I'd take Cold snap + IV + Frostbite over Blast wave + Blazing speed

 

[perfect]

Stopped reading there



1. Also, @ Perfect, if a healer wants to continuously LoS you as a Mage, he will do it and have zero problems vs. you no matter what spec you are. People say Fire has better offensive control? I consider a combination of 1 second frostbolts and regular frostbolts, both having an MS effect, 10/15% chance to proc a root & a 50% snare far better than 600 crit scorches.



2. And I'd rank Cold snap miles & miles above anything else both as an offensive and defensive spell.



3. Who knows though, if you're playing with average people versus average people, maybe you wont notice any difference between any spec, but when you're actually in tough games where you have to play your best, take it from me Frost beats both specs for arena, and I dont see fire being that awesome in WSG, although from the premade vs. premade BG's I've done, A frost mage can be the MVP of either team, don't see Blastwave bettering cold snap,



4.if you're hyping its AoE snare a lot (I hear mages in the middle of the fight last for ages ), Cone of Cold?

1. The root quickly losses effectiveness once Dr kicks in, whereas your fire crits won't. The Ms effect is entirely dependant on which class you are going with in arena or bgs. The effect can be dispel'd and is useless if you have a real MS class like a warrior or hunter. If someone is losing you etc you can blastwave them out of the pillar or w/e and continue casting or to help your teammate get on them.



2. Cold snap for that 2nd IB or nova is very imba indeed but with a 8min CD? vs blastwaves 30sec CD imo it comes out ontop.



3. There is only one 39 bracket so he is playing against the best and the worst.



4. Im not hyping its aoe snare. Cone of cold costs too much mana to be used effectively and has crappy damage. Also if you cone someone and they dispel it they'll still be in melee attack range but with blastwave they will have to use cd's to catch up with you, and then you still have nova and blink left. Blastwave can also be used to be avoid being hit like frost nova or offensively to stop casts so its a oh shit or nuke button. Its basically frost nova but with high damage and crit chance. Also if you rotate blink nova and blastwave you won't be needing a 2nd IB.



Oh yeah Blazing speed is so usefull vs hunters (your nightmare), with it you can get close to them pretty easy. Who needs 2x IB when you can sprint away and its not on cd!.

 

[Rezist]

1.The Ms effect is entirely dependant on which class you are going with in arena or bgs. The effect can be dispel'd and is useless if you have a real MS class like a warrior or hunter.



2. Cold snap for that 2nd IB or nova is very imba indeed but with a 8min CD? vs blastwaves 30sec CD imo it comes out ontop.



3. There is only one 39 bracket so he is playing against the best and the worst.



4. Im not hyping its aoe snare. Cone of cold costs too much mana to be used effectively and has crappy damage also if you cone someone and they dispel they'll still be in melee attack range but with blastwave there still going to be a few yards away having to use intercept etc to catch up with you and then you still have nova and blink left. Blastwave can be used to be avoid being hit like frost nova or offensively to stop casts so its a oh shit or nuke button. Its basically frost nova but with high damage and crit chance. Also if you rotate blink nova and blastwave you won't be needing a 2nd IB.

Yeah the MS can be dispelled, it can also be reapplied in an instant, if a priest wants to spam dispell on a 1 second cast to either remove MS or the snare, he can go for it, he'll oom far far quicker than the mage, also his team mate'll die due to being constantly snared and not being able to get upto the mage quick enough without taking dmg. Yeah, this is a situational thing to say, but so are most of the things you've said in your post. Also wars dont have MS.



Youre looking at Cold Snap for just the second iceblock? Yeah, Blastwave has a shorter CD, but it's merely a spell that gives off an effect that a good mage can pull off without a problem anyway...



CoC costs too much mana? Crappy damage? Dispels? (again with dispels?), Youre actually hyping the knockback as a reason Fire > Frost? lol, in arena, melee in your face for 1 second, you're snared anyway, Hstring/Crippling. in WSG, i dont really see how the tiny knockback will change a damn thing. And using it to avoid Frost Nova? What the hell lol...

Also if you rotate blink nova and blastwave you won't be needing a 2nd IB.

again with just thinking about IB, and btw, even if you do rotate those things as a Fire mage, youre still gonna get gibbed vs a decent team in arena.



Your reply is far too situational, and part nuts for me to really come up with a decent reply. But 1 thing I can leave you with, if a WSG team wants to get a mage out of the story fast for whatever reason, i dont think running in for that amazing auto dispelled Blastwave is gonna do too much for your team, I for one would rather sit at the back IV + R1 Frostbolts, trying to CC everything I could, and please dont reply, "but then you'll do no dmg and not kill the FC"...

Oh yeah Blazing speed is so usefull vs hunters (your nightmare), with it you can get close to them pretty easy. Who needs 2x IB when you can sprint away and its not on cd!.

BSpeed won't give you a match vs. a hunter, To beat a hunter you need to hug them and blow instants, as casting allows for them to get the small range needed and slam an aim shot/arc/auto in your face. And for that playstyle, I'd take 2 Nova/Frostbite/Shatter/IV anyday