39 frost or fire mage?

[perfect]

Ah you replyed before i finished a few edits. I didnt mean using it to avoid frost nova? I meant you can use it like frost nova. Melee won't be able to touch you with blastwave and if they do you'll just blazing speed away.



You sound almost as though your talking about running in using blastwave as if your going in solo vs 5 people, Its a very game breaking spell e.g. when the EFC is escaping your team you run in Blast wave the two healers healing him interupting there casts followed by a counter spell on one of them. And at the same time blastwave has also gotten the enemy melee off your teams melee so they can catch the EFC. And then you can nova afterwards. That situation any many others has saved the game many times. How will having a 2nd IB or nova stop you from getting gibbed vs a decent team when your gunna have hypothermia up for awhile anyway.



Blastwave isnt situaltional though. You will use it all the time interupting people and throwing people off your team mates or off bridges.



"BSpeed won't give you a match vs. a hunter, To beat a hunter you need to hug them and blow instants, as casting allows for them to get the small range needed and slam an aim shot/arc/auto in your face. And for that playstyle, I'd take 2 Nova/Frostbite/Shatter/IV anyday"



I know how to beat a hunter thank you, and blazing speed will remove his snares and get you well within range of his face so you can unload lol. I don't see how having two frost nova's is usefull when your 30yards away. And you can only do this every 8minutes compared to all the time. Blowing instants as frost? what.. cone of mana whore and a weaker version of fire blast. Casting a 2.5 frostbolt on a hunter lol. You also said you need instants for hunters and with fire you'll have more of them than frost and they will be much more powerful.

 

[Rezist]

Last reply cause i'm hitting the sack soon. Just gonna quickly pick things you said and reply to them.



You hit a Melee with a blastwave, they still have tools to catch upto you, and saying you can Blazing speed away is a bit of an exaguration. its RNG, yes, vs. a rogue it's likely to proc nice and early, but it's not a push to activate snare remover like ICy Veins can be. And to be honest, Nova > CoC > IV to escape is great. and when youre out of Blast wave and at range, as Fire you're gonna be jonesing for 1 sec Frostbolts and Frostbite procs if theyre back in your face already, which chances are they may be. And if you just wanna kite them, Frost is (As said by other users here) by far the better spec



Blast wave healers, who says they will be standing right next to the FC? I'd prefer IV > Poly to blastwaving even if the healers were dumb enough to stand next to their FC.

If you need to provide peels to your team mate, i can assure you a nova > CoC > R1 Fbolts/Poly's on any additional targets is all you need, really the Snap for additional frost spells isn't required. if your opponents are getting dispelled constantly then you're clearly gonna need assistance with peels, no spec can peel an army solo forever, in WSG anyway.

In WSG, if a team wants to gib you, they'll gib you eventually, but a Frost Mage can provide far better support than a Fire Mage whether they're getting focussed on or not. And thats one reason why I'd take Frost over Fire for WSG.



Yeah Fire has stronger instants techincally, no doubt, and I never said I'd always risk trying to 2.5 sec Fbolt a hunter, maybe if he was rooted, why not, can bypass feign easily, and @ melee they're not so bad. Stop talking about CDs for duels, in a duel a CD is irrelevant. Yeah fire may have straight up stronger, and an extra intsant spell with BWave, but 1 frostbite/Frost nova, r1 procced Frostbite, and you gain a 50% crit chance, that can be used for a few arc explo crit's (iirc like 200 crit each?), CoC crit, Fblast crit, and if you think you can pull it off, a Fbolt crit. I havent dueled Hunters enough to determine a better spec to fight them, and frankly i dont care lol, If i wanted to roll a dueling Caster class & wanted to have a very good shot to take any 39 class I'd go Warlock.



NN.

 

[Regulate]

just come horde rez, we believe frost is better. Also get zires to come too. That is all.

 

[Tetrica]

Even though I believe that Rezist can be a bit narrow-minded at times, his arguments here are infallible. And as for CoC being mana-inefficient, Scorch is pretty inefficient mana/sec-wise.

 

[Rezist]

just come horde rez, we believe frost is better. Also get zires to come too. That is all.

Don't even know why I got into this retarded post war to begin with, hard trying to convince people who clearly don't have much of a clue about multiple aspects of the game let alone their own class to a certain extent. And man, I have some friends rolling Horde and chances are i'll be joining them with a few of my own mates. So sit back, chill and blaze to some Dub573p



Tetrica, maybe I throw my opinion out there so strongly because I've done everything I talk about at 39? Most of the people who've posted here havent got much of a clue past the very basics of a mage. If in the few times I decide to join some discussion like this, it's cause I like to think I know what I'm talking about and wan't to give my input on the matter, I don't frankly care what people do, i'm not here to change peoples mind's, I just posted here to make sure half the crap that was said was put in check :S

 

[perfect]

You hit a Melee with a blastwave, they still have tools to catch upto you



Blast wave healers, who says they will be standing right next to the FC? I'd prefer IV > Poly to blastwaving even if the healers were dumb enough to stand next to their FC.



Don't even know why I got into this retarded post war to begin with, hard trying to convince people who clearly don't have much of a clue about multiple aspects of the game let alone their own class to a certain extent. And man, I have some friends rolling Horde and chances are i'll be joining them with a few of my own mates. So sit back, chill and blaze to some Dub573p



Tetrica, maybe I throw my opinion out there so strongly because I've done everything I talk about at 39? Most of the people who've posted here havent got much of a clue past the very basics of a mage. If in the few times I decide to join some discussion like this, it's cause I like to think I know what I'm talking about and wan't to give my input on the matter, I don't frankly care what people do, i'm not here to change peoples mind's, I just posted here to make sure half the crap that was said was put in check :S



Yeah, Blastwave has a shorter CD, but it's merely a spell that gives off an effect that a good mage can pull off without a problem anyway...

The point is they have to use those tools earlyer when youre fire but wouldnt have too if your frost. With frost you only have nova or frostbite if it procs. And blazing speed is only 5% less likely to proc than frostbite when your being hit, BUT it removes your snares unlike frostbite. You can't have IV and coldsnap all the time for everyfight. So you can prefer what you like every few minutes but when your using fire you won't have to rely on those CDs.



You can blastwave then poly and increase the amount of time your tagets are CC'd then.



Sorry I don't have a clue about anything. You can believe what you want though.



What I meant with CoC being a mana whore is that: CoC - Hits for 200ish and costs 200 mana

Blastwave - Hits for 300ish and costs 58 mana.



Blastwaves effect isnt just a snare? Can a good mage push back multiple people and interrupt multiple people without it, please tell me how?



Since you seem to think blastwave is just a dispelable snare, here's an example of why it is better than you think.

Example 1. Your team mate is in a stun. He won't survie it if he's attacked by melee while in it.



Fire

You use blastwave and the enemys are pushed off him, the stun ends and you follow with a nova. Your partner lives.



Frost

You use nova but there still standing next to him. He dies.



Example 2. Your team mate is about to get hit by a shitstorm from a ele shammy's chainlightning and a mage's w/e, or by any caster/combo if im being too situational.



Fire

You cast blastwave both of them and there casts are interrupted. Your partner lives to fight another day.



Frost

You pop IV and cast rank 1 frostbolt!!!!



Don't say sheeping one of them is enough because thats too situational for my liking. I'll stay fire and you can be frost ok.

 

[Rezist]

Look man I cba anymore, some of the things you say, for me to reply i'd just have to keep conjuring long-winded posts, ultimately everything youre saying though is situational.



Anyway, I noticed you're loc is England, I'm guessing you have a Mage @ Blackout in the 39 scene? I leveled my mage to 49, but I want to have some games with/against you, just to see how you perform, truly curious to see how someone with a lot of words does when it comes to actually playing

 

[perfect]

I have a 39 mage but it isnt in blackout, I was thinking of rolling another class like a pala or priest though since ive read some posts about them getting a wsg up etc. The problem is I have some chars on al'alkir with some boa's but you'll probably roll on dreanor. Ive mainly been playing 80 since I was fed up with 19 and 39 hadnt kicked off yet. I play arena casually at around 2100rating if that means anything to you.

truly curious to see how someone with a lot of words does when it comes to actually playing

I could say the same for you .

 

[Tetrica]

@Perfect

Example 1: If you're pressured that far, you could probably have done better earlier, but you should still Poly one of them instead of risking a crit, getting Ignite and being unable to Poly any of them since you won't ever sport the Poly-glyph as a Fire Mage. If they get the pushback and a Gnome/someone with trinket up can remove the slow, he's toast. Also, say one viable comp that cannot do any damage from a distance but Rogue/Rogue. He'd be dead anyway, if you don't Poly one and CS the possible caster.



Example 2: First of all, if they both stand vulnerable to Blast Wave, something is wrong. Additionally, if that situation would occur, I know that my partner does not suck at positioning and LoSes the casts.



Additionally, CoC is an instant spell available to both Frost and Fire. This can be compared to the mana-inefficiency of another spell available to both trees that is also an instant spell. Fire Blast?

CoC does ~200 damage per target, and costs for me 190ish mana.

Fire Blast does 320 damage in total, and costs 160ish mana.

CoC also adds a slow-effect and does, as well as Fire Blast, not require any talent points.



Here's a hypothetical situation for you too.

Your Blink and Trinket is on CD. Assume that this is late in a duel, you've used Ice Block too. You're at 50% HP and get stuck in a stun. What do you do?

Fire: Oops.

Frost: Hey, my use of Cold Snap earlier enabled me to Block twice!

 

[perfect]

@Perfect

Example 1: If you're pressured that far, you could probably have done better earlier, but you should still Poly one of them instead of risking a crit, getting Ignite and being unable to Poly any of them since you won't ever sport the Poly-glyph as a Fire Mage. If they get the pushback and a Gnome/someone with trinket up can remove the slow, he's toast. Also, say one viable comp that cannot do any damage from a distance but Rogue/Rogue. He'd be dead anyway, if you don't Poly one and CS the possible caster.



Example 2: First of all, if they both stand vulnerable to Blast Wave, something is wrong. Additionally, if that situation would occur, I know that my partner does not suck at positioning and LoSes the casts.



Additionally, CoC is an instant spell available to both Frost and Fire. This can be compared to the mana-inefficiency of another spell available to both trees that is also an instant spell. Fire Blast?

CoC does ~200 damage per target, and costs for me 190ish mana.

Fire Blast does 320 damage in total, and costs 160ish mana.

CoC also adds a slow-effect and does, as well as Fire Blast, not require any talent points.



Here's a hypothetical situation for you too.

Your Blink and Trinket is on CD. Assume that this is late in a duel, you've used Ice Block too. You're at 50% HP and get stuck in a stun. What do you do?

Fire: Oops.

Frost: Hey, my use of Cold Snap earlier enabled me to Block twice!

My examples where just to show how you could use the spell, Not a massive theorycraft I could poly one of them first and if they trinket it then blast wave + nova. If they trinketed the poly they would get blasted wave'd and if they where gnome and removed it..they would eat a nova.



I would not get stuck in a stun if i had run out of CDs, but if i did i'd probably nova once im out then poly or vice versa depending on if they had interupts or not. Go use evo and own them.

 

[Druiddroid]

bottom line: try all the specs and see which one is best for you

 

[Tetrica]

@Perfect: You're showing situations you should never be in if you have a clue or didn't get out-played, as did I. Same thing. By the way, you would die in that stun, 50% HP with no way to get out and an extremely low damage reduction (around 16%) for melee and a spell coming in from the healer as well... You'd be toast. But my point is that you wouldn't be set in that situation, neither would anyone be in yours unless something went wrong before. You're just making up stupid hypothetical situations (as did I).



I didn't provide a "massive theorycraft", if ten lines of text for you is massive theorycrafting then I suggest you try something else than hanging out at forums. The first one was pretty thoroughly explained, the second one would be lethal to yourself if you'd run in and Blast Wave them to be misplaced yourself and you'd probably be the one eating the burst. But luckily, as I said, my partner isn't completely fucked over mentally and knows what LoS is.



Come on over to Blackout! We're growing slowly but there are arenas on whenever and we can always use good players on either side.

 

[perfect]

@Perfect: You're showing situations you should never be in if you have a clue or didn't get out-played, as did I. Same thing. By the way, you would die in that stun, 50% HP with no way to get out and an extremely low damage reduction (around 16%) for melee and a spell coming in from the healer as well... You'd be toast. But my point is that you wouldn't be set in that situation, neither would anyone be in yours unless something went wrong before. You're just making up stupid hypothetical situations (as did I).



I didn't provide a "massive theorycraft", if ten lines of text for you is massive theorycrafting then I suggest you try something else than hanging out at forums. The first one was pretty thoroughly explained, the second one would be lethal to yourself if you'd run in and Blast Wave them to be misplaced yourself and you'd probably be the one eating the burst. But luckily, as I said, my partner isn't completely fucked over mentally and knows what LoS is.



Come on over to Blackout! We're growing slowly but there are arenas on whenever and we can always use good players on either side.

Ok saying massive was a exaggeration its just that you started talking about racials which could lead to it.



Im sure that my partner is going to find himself in a rogues kidney or pala's hammer or out of los once or twice in a fight but ok.



Yeah im thinking about it, going to the download festival now, maybe you'll see me in 2weeks.

 

[Tetrica]

Im sure that my partner is going to find himself in a rogues kidney or pala's hammer or out of los once or twice in a fight but ok.

Yea, but not under those circumstances.