29 US Fight Nights

[Trusttemptz]

The bracket shrinkage is affecting all the midbrackets, not just 29s. Yes, drama heavily affects any XP-off midbracket. People play XP-off strictly by choice now; it doesn't happen by accident (once you surpass the 20-24 bracket), and midbracket players by and large prefer to spend their limited PvP time in brackets that are more fun and less prone to personal attacks and asshat attitudes. 39s, which for over a year the most populous bracket of all the midbrackets, managed to troll itself out of existence. While getting players from other brackets may help in the short term, I'd argue that all the midbrackets will need to recruit fresh blood from outside of the midbrackets, and hopefully outside of twinking.



Every twinker bracket thread on the WoW forums would benefit from an intro paragraph that sells the no-XP philosophy to visitors. Something like....



"Do you love battlegrounds, but hate playing alongside farmers and bots? Do you love finally completing your gear, but hate to see it fall obsolete in months or even weeks? Does your guild schedule RBGs, only to get stuck hunting for filler players?



"You deserve a better PvP experience. Find out what thousands of PvP'ers already discovered: XP-off stops the bots, stops the gear treadmill, and stops the players more interested in leveling and farming than playing for real. If you have the diligence to gear up, the desire to win via team coordination, and the dedication to master team communication, then XP-off battlegrounds await your discovery.



"Stop your XP at 29, gear up, and queue for Warsong Gulch every Tuesday and Thursday at 9pm EST/6pm PST. Discover why game nights continue two years after Blizzard introduced no-XP battlegrounds. But be forewarned: 29s play for the love of PvP. The intensity, camaraderie, and fun may spoil your ability to ever go back to XP-on."



...Customize to taste for any schedule and bracket.



Everybody wants more players in their bracket. But nobody wants to deal with newbies. At some point, us XP-off players will need to get over our elitist PvP attitudes and resolve this paradox by taking a more proactive role in making a difference for the brackets we love. If we would run a player through an instance, maybe we can help a player practice kiting and interrupts. That's how we grow a midbracket. The most prominent features of 29s or any midbracket are not balance nor population. Instead, promote the higher quality PvP, camaraderie, and relative midbracket ease of gearing for 29s, and we will see progress.

I have to agree with Nirise. If you want your bracket to grow successfully you will need to stop whining and trolling in game and out of game. You need to stop afk reporting players who are not up to your standard. You need to be helpful to the new players you see stop in for a game or two. And end the elitist attitudes that some of y'all have.

 

[Franchi]

I have to agree with Nirise. If you want your bracket to grow successfully you will need to stop whining and trolling in game and out of game. You need to stop afk reporting players who are not up to your standard. You need to be helpful to the new players you see stop in for a game or two. And end the elitist attitudes that some of y'all have.

There is a right way and wrong way to join exp off bg's the right way is what saxx and swagl did, got bis got enchants joined up, joined vent.





Now lets take a look at the people that got trolled out of this bracket horde side

Pizzle rolled a hunter, had shit gear, never joined vent, never upgraded his shit gear despite being linked the bis gear list. Quit the bracket after a few weeks.

Amethyst, shit gear, no enchants, no upgrades, no vent, after 5 game nights. is now getting kicked out of every other game or so.



If someone has been linked the bis gear list and has been offered vent info and has used neither after being in the bracket for more than two fight nights they deserve to be kicked. The kicking i have a problem with i the fully geared people getting kicked.

 

[Trusttemptz]

There is a right way and wrong way to join exp off bg's the right way is what saxx and swagl did, got bis got enchants joined up, joined vent.





Now lets take a look at the people that got trolled out of this bracket horde side

Pizzle rolled a hunter, had shit gear, never joined vent, never upgraded his shit gear despite being linked the bis gear list. Quit the bracket after a few weeks.

Amethyst, shit gear, no enchants, no upgrades, no vent, after 5 game nights.



If someone has been linked the bis gear list and has been offered vent info and has used neither after being in the bracket for more than two fight nights they deserve to be kicked. The kicking i have a problem with i the fully geared people getting kicked.

I understand where you are coming from but you have to also look at the possibility some people may have bad RNG on dungeon drops, do not know where to do a quest for a BiS item or others will just not give a care. For the ones who do not give a care you can just ignore them. Vent is beneficial but you also need to know it was not used in the beginning of pvp in the career of WoW and people can still do well without it. Just relying on vent is a bad thing. Some people use Teamspeak, Skype or other voice chats. And y'all do need to realize that vote kicking is detrimental to the bracket.

 

[Franchi]

I understand where you are coming from but you have to also look at the possibility some people may have bad RNG on dungeon drops, do not know where to do a quest for a BiS item or others will just not give a care. For the ones who do not give a care you can just ignore them. Vent is beneficial but you also need to know it was not used in the beginning of pvp in the career of WoW and people can still do well without it. Just relying on vent is a bad thing. Some people use Teamspeak, Skype or other voice chats. And y'all do need to realize that vote kicking is detrimental to the bracket.

These people at least horde side have been told how to find the gear list, cindereli posts a link to it in bg chat rather often. there are plenty of quest rewards they are choosing not to get. Those individuals deserve to be kicked.



It's fine that some people just don't want to use ventrilo, problem is when most of the alliance is using it horde is going to get rolled because so many new horde refuse to use it that veteran horde have began to quit the bracket, getting rolled because you are surrounded by people who refuse to use a tool that takes 10 minutes or less to get and set up is not fun.

 

[Donteventrii]

Atrocious players that refuse to join vent are only beneficial in the very short term. All they help to do is get pops. After that, they contribute to a decrease in morale from their factions veteran players. If they contribute to an overwhelming loss, they in fact are DETRIMENTAL to the bracket. Plenty of those that we see Hordeside, have gear but no enchants. Some refuse to use Rum. Others refuse to get in vent. Others get in vent but aren't actually capable of paying attention to what is said in vent as they are tunnel visioners. Others have mics, but are not able to articulate what they are doing, as they are doing it.



There are very few players that can make calls in vent, but they happen those who queue up night after night for games. We need to recruit players known to be able to do that. I have just gotten two players to do such. Any others would be much appreciated by everyone.

 

[allahkazam]

You guys need #1 ret off heals worldwide in games. It's a fact.

 

[Fcftw]

It's to the point where I'd rather not play anymore, games lately seemingly have been decided by which faction has more undergeared and unenchanted players, sorry but losing games 0-3 because we have 4-5 players that have no clue what they are doing and have no business playing xp off bg's is just as lame as winning 3-0 because the opposing team is having the same problem



I played one game Thursday night before I said f this and went to play rbg's, and in that one game both sides had at least 4 random untwinked players and my team won handily 3-0.. it was boring and unfun



and I fail to see how vote kicking these players is detrimental to the bracket.. these players getting kicked aren't twinks.. they aren't there to twink, they are there because they thought they could turn their xp off and still play in "xp on bg's" so they can faceroll undergeared players.. in fact NOT kicking them is detrimental to the bracket because if an actual twink is stuck waiting in q because some 1.2k tard rogue decided he wanted to be cool and q into OUR games the twink waiting in q may say **** this and log.. then not only do we have a shitty player that has no desire to improve but we have one less actual twink to help fill games

 

[Franchi]

It's to the point where I'd rather not play anymore, games lately seemingly have been decided by which faction has more undergeared and unenchanted players, sorry but losing games 0-3 because we have 4-5 players that have no clue what they are doing and have no business playing xp off bg's is just as lame as winning 3-0 because the opposing team is having the same problem



I played one game Thursday night before I said f this and went to play rbg's, and in that one game both sides had at least 4 random untwinked players and my team won handily 3-0.. it was boring and unfun



and I fail to see how vote kicking these players is detrimental to the bracket.. these players getting kicked aren't twinks.. they aren't there to twink, they are there because they thought they could turn their xp off and still play in "xp on bg's" so they can faceroll undergeared players.. in fact NOT kicking them is detrimental to the bracket because if an actual twink is stuck waiting in q because some 1.2k tard rogue decided he wanted to be cool and q into OUR games the twink waiting in q may **** this and log.. then not only do we have a shitty player that has no desire to improve but we have one less actual twink to help fill games

Exactly, it was funny when one or two people a night would say "WTF everyone is 29!!!" or "OMFG everyone is a twink!!"



But Thursday was disgusting beyond anything I have ever seen in 29's since exp off came out.

 

[Zuladin]

Bro i'll never stop being elitist, i go hard every day every game, if you dont meet my standard i will boot you and laugh at you.....alot. Gotta meet zul's golden standard!

 

[Donteventrii]

But kicking them causes games to stop popping.

 

[Fcftw]

well their presence makes games start pooping



cwutididthur

 

[Donteventrii]

And that's the dilemma. But simply afking without recruiting good pvpers to twink 29s is bound to fail.

 

[rubikz]

u go hard in the paint

 

[Donteventrii]

That's helpful Rubikz.

 

[Ohai]

[video=youtube;7D7zdMf0Jes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7zdMf0Jes[/video]



Listen, when I was playing if those undergeared players had ever come into vent and expressed interest in getting geared in a serious way, I would have gotten on my main and real-id'd them for at least the duration of the runs for gear. I know theres a half dozen others like me who would seriously help if they WANTED it.



The point is vent info gets spammed, bis thread gets spammed, and there is just silence, and then them dragging the team down.



Kick them.

 

[soskanky]

Lets start posting on realm forums. Offer recruitment to ovoid players who are tired of the grind, etc etc. Bring fresh blood in masses. You throw enough shit at the wall some is bound to stick.

 

[Franchi]

Lets start posting on realm forums. Offer recruitment to ovoid players who are tired of the grind, etc etc. Bring fresh blood in masses. You throw enough shit at the wall some is bound to stick.

Or you end up dumbing 29's down until there is no more point in playing it than there is in playing 19's or 70's or 60's not trying to insult those brackets just point out the difference between them and 29/39

 

[Kirise]

I take no issue with kicking severely undergeared players after they've been given a ton of info. That's just XP-off courtesy -- don't show up until you're ready to play. And if a kick is what it takes to wake up a newcomer to that, so be it. Better to kick players damaging games than to use them to get pops that suck. But that's not the problem with the bracket.



We need to wake up, too. This is not WotLK, and a lot of 29s are still treating the bracket like it is. Those days are done. Back in WotLK, 29s pulled off an amazing community feat: the bracket came together to ban Aimed Shot (back when it did a 50% healing debuff), to get games for the bracket. The ban stood for months, and games escalated to the point of playing 4 nights a week. Many players had toons on both factions. Meed's game records tallied like a slot machine.



Those days are gone. Battlegroups merged, and players who either come from populous brackets with little community or haven't played since before the no-XP patch, have no idea what a "bracket community" is. The concept does not compute. Stop trying to ban abilities, ban classes, ban anything. Those days are done. The fact that the bracket is cohesive enough to coordinate a kick for a damaging player is amazing in itself, and significantly more than what most other brackets can muster. Think about that -- the new "high-water" mark for bracket coordination is kicking a troublemaker. That's a far cry from 19 players working together to farm an AS hunter out of the bracket, after giving advisement and offering to pay a respec fee.



There are far more players available to play in 29s now than there ever were in WotLK. But the complaints and the "for the community" push jammed the bracket so hard between gears that the bracket has actually managed to lose more players than it gained. This is not the 29s of Rampage from last year, and the sooner the bracket comes to terms with this, the sooner the bracket can move forward.



Is grandfathered gear an issue? Potentially. Do people need to learn to communicate better? Likely. Should everyone be on vent? Yes. Do players need to gear up before starting XP-off games? Ideally. But this is not 2010. While pruning true troublemakers from the bracket keeps games healthy, complaining about newcomers who don't automatically embrace the standards of the bracket simply makes 29s look snotty.



That's the wakeup call: talking about recruiting good players from other brackets makes it sound like there are good players that simply haven't been discovered yet in XP-off. From where? Not 39s -- there's already a lot of synergy between the two brackets. Not 49s -- anyone interested in 29s already rolled up a toon. Not 19s, 60s, or 70s -- those are typically the kinds of players that 29s have tried to kick. New players for 29s or any other bracket aren't going to magically appear.



If we want an infusion of fresh players, it will need to come from outside XP-off. And if we expect new players (regardless of origin) to stay, the one thing we can bring with us from the WotLK days is respectful treatment of other players. I'm not asking for lollipops and rainbows; I'm saying that 29s earned a well-deserved elitist, snotball reputation in Cata, which attracts exactly the kind of players you want to kick out. Compiling BiS lists and posting vent info is not enough for a bracket that plays two to three times a week.



Either 29s get more constructive and creative in their offerings and follow through in showing what a bracket community can really offer, or the bracket erodes from offering the same drama as other brackets but with more stringent gearing requirements and less play time.



29s deserve more/better games. But everyone's focused on how to keep newcomers from doing things "wrong" based on old standards, and spending little time on helping newcomers do things "right". The bracket continues to suffer for it.

 

[Kirise]

Listen, when I was playing if those undergeared players had ever come into vent and expressed interest in getting geared in a serious way, I would have gotten on my main and real-id'd them for at least the duration of the runs for gear. I know theres a half dozen others like me who would seriously help if they WANTED it.



The point is vent info gets spammed, bis thread gets spammed, and there is just silence, and then them dragging the team down.



Kick them.

Indeed, I agree -- kick them. They're a liability.



But recognize that them reaching the battleground in that condition is a failure on everyone's part. This isn't 70s where people take mediocrity for granted (no offense 70s, but you know what I'm talking about). This is 29s, where at best you hit an available game window three times a week. Newcomers either know someone playing 29s, or looked up game time information. How did someone walk on the field half-geared and not know they were going to get blown away?



It's common sense for 29s to gear up before getting on the field. But it's not common sense for twinking in general. Only the midbrackets hold that kind of standard -- the vast majority of XP-off players don't fully gear up. Kick the liabilities, but kick up bracket promotion and information dissemination to help prevent these problems from happening in the first place.

 

[Franchi]

Nirise



<real id's anyone that wants runs for anything

<links vent

<shows people how to find the bis list

<farms materials and potions in amounts that would make anyone sick

<rolled an alliance toon to help with balance

<makes bags for anyone that wants to re roll to dragonmaw

<missed fewer game nights than anyone else



Please tell me what else can i do?



And I'm sorry i don't want to play with people who are to lazy to gear/enchant/get in vent.



I was one of the first people to walk away from games on Thursday, I've NEVER been the first to quite a fight night before, games were THAT BAD on Thursday.