29 Shamans - Gearing Deep Dive

Discussion in '29s (Vanilla)' started by BARNYARD, Nov 7, 2019.

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  1. BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    Hi folks. There's a lot I want to talk about, so I am just going to dive right in.

    I have not played WoW for long. On private servers I reached Rank 11, but this go around I do not want to invest time into 60 PvP. As a result I knew with the release of classic that I was going to make a twink or the 29 bracket. Mostly I chose a Shaman because I figured there'd be plenty of the "better" classes and I wanted to be different.

    Thanks to a ton of Google searching, I was able to uncover a slew of guides and gear sheets made for 29 Twink Shamans that have been released throughout the last 15 years -- some of which appeared on this very website. One take away is that Shamans can fill a lot of roles and can be configured many which ways. While most of it is helpful, from my experience, I have learned from the world of competitive Magic: the Gathering that there are 2 pitfalls to be aware of when following user made content:
    1. People half-ass a lot of content. It is easy to vomit a list of gear on a sheet and hit a submit button and claim you're an expert.
    2. A lot of content creators mean well, but are uneducated on the topic they're covering.
    I am not here to educate, but rather learn and collaborate. My approach in this thread is to propose the most comprehensive list of gear available for a 29 Twink Shaman and hope to parse through it all to determine what is, within reason and realism, what configurations are best for the various roles I may fill. In my mind, there are 4 main builds I am aiming for to fit the various roles I may fill:

    • Healing
    • Elemental
    • Enhancement
    • All Around

    (Note: I think it is important to note that reason and realism are big here. While yes, maybe I should have some ridiculous set of Spirit gear for drinking...I am not doing that. Or having a set of gear specifically for dueling Warlocks...I am not doing that.)

    (Note: For the sake of this exercise, I am going to use Emissary Cuffs and Archer's Bracers interchangeably. I know Emissary Cuffs are better, but I've read horror stories about unreliable drop rates -- cheers if you get them!)

    (Last Note: Phase 3 Gear. Also, not sure if Nexus Crystals are readily available by then. On my server I have yet to see any hit the AH).

    First, I combed through the vast amounts of information out there and did my best to put together a comprehensive list of 29 Shaman Twink gear. It can be found below in this spreadsheet:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bfmbiJN_MnuRDgrcsfbH_R1OarBolRaOMqvgKkGRm6Y/edit?usp=sharing

    Next. I have created sheets that outline each of the gear that I plan on using in the four different gear sets. I have to go to sleep so I only finished a little bit of it. I can't wait to hear from people and incorporate your feedback.
     
  2. Shmuckumpoo

    Shmuckumpoo Member

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    Hello! I'm happy you started this thread and feel a lot of the beginning was directed towards my guide. I want to clear a few things up.

    1. The guide was meant to be a high level overview of all of 29, so yes while it seems to be very bare-bones (when talking about classes), the entire purpose was to cover all classes and doing a deep-dive into them would be excessive.
    2. I agree on coming across guides that are either outdated or created by people who have not a strong grasp on each class; I want to clear up that I have a large amount of experience on all classes at 29; with shaman being my primary char on northdale prior to classic release.

    That being said lets talk shaman!

    You have a solid extensive list of items which is good, and in my guide I focused on a more all-around approach of single items I felt were BIS for most applications of the class. Let me pick out some key points from my experience.

    1. The key limiter to shamans is mana. No matter which talent tree you pick. If you oom you turn invisible. This is why a prefer a stam/int stat prior shaman. It is the most versatile and provides the highest amount of utility in BGs. The obvious problem is if you start mixing gear you are disadvantaging yourself in other aspects of your kit. Go too little int? You oom. Too much int? You have low melee dmg. There are trade-offs to be had and its predicated on your playstyle more than anything (and to a lesser extent group comp.)
    2. Also you need to realize the faction imbalance when playing shaman. Specifically around the value you bring as a healer/peeler vs as a damage dealer. Alliance have paladins (which are stupid op as healers and never oom) and priests. This usually lends you to being a more healer utility roll in BGs so keep that in mind.
    3. The primary roll of the shaman is not killing shit. It's being the most annoying piece of turd orc/cow/troll you can be to the enemy heals and providing healing utility to your allies. Your spells cost so much mana. Like stupid mana. Purge spam? bye bye mana poison cleanse? totems? shocks? heals? You get the idea. So if you don't have a large enough mana pool to utilize your extensive amount of spells you are fucked.
    4. I wana talk about weapons now. This is where you have a free reign of items to choose from and it is very situational.
    • Claw (30sp) - best paired with spell power googs and elemental build. I favor this in all duel and offensive encounters
    • Skullbreaker (22int) - healing/defensive utility
    • Windstorm Hammer (crusader) - offensive only, useful primarily in enhance builds
    • Torturing poker (Fiery) - fast speed with fiery, used to annoy paladins and priests
    Talent Specs:

    After trying all of them I always fall back on the 20/0/0. It has the best utility and also has the ability to dish out a ton of sneaky damage. Not to mention the best talent for any 29 shaman eye of the storm (works on heals as well). Enhance was always a bit underwhelming for me primarily cuse I was OOM all the time and elemental can deal the same amount of damage while also having more mana. 0/0/20 is what i go for healing. AF is super useful and can be procced spamming r1 healing wave pre-fight. It is super useful for FC healing. Then you can also consider a few hybrid ghost wolf specs if you are primarily FC chain running or FCing at all.
     
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  3. OP
    BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    Heya! Sorry, I've been out of town for work.

    Just want to say, thanks, your guide was actually very helpful! I didn't mean to throw shade at all.

    I appreciate your weapon breakdown. A few questions:
    • +30 Spell Power -- Why have you chosen Claw of the Shadowmancer? I am guessing because Fast Attack Dagger is good vs. caster. Would some sort of stat stick dagger be better -- Honed Stilletto of the Nature's Wrath or Evocator's Blade (4int)?
    • Crusdaer -- Why is this better than Lifestealing enchant?
    • +55 Healing on a Death Speaker Scepter? Or even if you wanted to enchant that would you recommend +22 Int?
    ---

    As far as the talent trees go, do you have an example of a good hybrid ghost wolf spec?
     
  4. Shmuckumpoo

    Shmuckumpoo Member

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    • I picked claw because of the chance on hit proc adds a tad extra dps and also the 2 int is something. I like fast attack weapons because of flametongue weapon. (this is the same reason i like poker and fiery, but i think claw+spell power and googs beats poker with 0 spell power bonus)
    • crusader because 1str=2ap for shamans in classic
    • i go 22 int because i value the mana pool and utility spells of the class. A lot of your mana costing spells arent directly affected by healing. So by going 22 int you arent hindering yourself too much from the other aspects of the class. If you feel all you will do is spam lesser healing wave then go 55 healing. But imo its a waste.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2019 ---
    https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/shaman/5320012-50002 or https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/shaman/-5005230005

    the first spec trades off too much for imp GW but its decent if you are flaf running a lot. The second spec is just your typical enhance. Ive never tested shield spec vs AK. But i guess if you prior str and melee stats shield spec will be superior.
     
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  5. OP
    BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    What about Torturing Poker with +30 Spellpower? Is the +2 Int worth the sacrifice in damage / faster attack speed?
     
  6. Shmuckumpoo

    Shmuckumpoo Member

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    Could be viable. I think its almost negligible between the 2.
     
  7. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    That 3 int is money, and the proc could be considered equal with the +fire damage on TP imo.
     
  8. OP
    BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    Gotcha! I will use Claw then.

    Let's talk Libram enchants! The way I see it, there are 5 pieces of gear Head/Pants I will use:

    1 - Pathfinder Hat of the Eagle
    2 - Spellpower Goggles Xtreme
    3 - Holy Shroud

    4 - Triprunner's Dungarees
    5 - Infiltrator Pants of the Eagle

    My assumption is that you can't go wrong with +100HP on all of them. However, part of me thinks it might be worth putting +150Mana or +8Healing on Holy Shroud.

    What are everybody's opinions? Are there any Helms/Legs I forgot about?
     
  9. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    I'd say 150 mana is your only other viable choice, and I think Holy Shroud is your best target for that. Still though, if you can pick up Int at a better than 1:1 ratio anywhere you would want to do that first.
     
  10. OP
    BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    Circling back, here his where I am currently planning for my 29 Shaman -- I have all of this ready to go for the most part which makes me really excited (missing the Phase 3 Enchantments and PvP rings/cloak). Let me know what you think of my setups!
    More discussion topics:
    • Why is Vile Protector so good? I am a little confused why it is considered hands down the best shield at 29?
    • I am thinking of this spec as my Solo Queue spec...it provides a lot of utility and lets me swap between different gear sets: upload_2019-12-5_11-12-27.png
      The reasoning is I really wanted 2/2 Earth's Grasp and 2/2 Improved Ghost Wolf. Earthbound Totem and Ghost Wolf seem like big reasons to be a Shaman in the first place -- an AoE slow and the best mobility -- so I wanted to push those to the limits. In order to get Earth's Grasp, I needed 5 points in elemental and I figured Concussion and Convection were comparable. With all of my builds I have a large mana pool and I wanted a little more bruising power so I went with the damage increase.

      I wasn't sure where to go on the Enhancement tree. Until I kind of prove to myself otherwise, I think I want the option to whip out the Corpsemaker when I need a damage boost. However, I am not convinced Thundering Strikes is worth 5 points. Maybe some of those points are better spent elsewhere?
    • How important is Agility relative to Strength? Warsong Boots for example is really just a Headhunter's Slipper of the Monkey with differently distributed stats. Would Headhunter's Slippers of the Bear be better?
    • How good is +Healing and +Spell Power at this bracket?
    • What are some utility weapons/gear that you recommend? For example, I want to have a Torturing Poker +Fiery Enchant for specifically Holy Paladins -- Fastest attack speed + Most magic damage. I often think things like this are too cute, but it's fun to theorycraft about!
    • I am still debating a +22 Intellect weapon. I guess in my mind 2k mana is a ton already and I'd rather use the Weapon Enchant to get some extra power and cover the Intellect with Moss Cinch, Berryline Pads, and the like in addition to +150 Mana to Holy Shroud. But I could be wrong. Really excited to get in there and try it out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  11. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Your links are bad. You need to find the link button on Sixtyupgrades and share that one.
     
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  12. OP
    BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    Thanks for the heads up!

    I believe I fixed those links in the post above!
     
  13. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Here's what I would consider for jack of all trades talents. Personally I think 29 shammy talents are pretty unimpressive, so it's hard to really critique builds, but I would at least say that you should commit to shield build unless you want to be a full bear 2h Shaman (don't recommend).
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2019 ---
    To answer some of your other questions though, the Vile Protector has the highest armor rating and a decent proc, but Basalt is also an excellent piece. Personally I wouldn't bother with cute stuff like a fiery TP, you'll have enough gear to manage as is, and I'd still rather just proc crusader on a Paladin for the extra block you'll get from Holy Strength, plus Windstorm is highest DPS.

    Agi is not as good as strength for you so yes, I would go with bear boots over Warsong Boots. I do favor agi if I can get it at a greater than 1:1 trade with stam or str, but you'll never get your crit very high no matter what, so best not to rely on crits.
     
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  14. Timitwink

    Timitwink New Member

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  15. Outofspace

    Outofspace Deeps

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    Looks really solid for a super beefy support Shaman. Keeping as much leather in your build as possible is really beneficial, more than you might think.

    I put together this power healer build a while back, but it's really not far from yours if you just swap in that Eagle gear.
     
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  16. Ðegenerate

    Ðegenerate New Member

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    They are broke again :/
     
  17. OP
    BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    Long Post:

    Now that I have hit Exalted and played over a few hundred games on my Shaman, I figured it’d be an apt time to update my perspective.

    I think in Shaman is probably one of the best classes in 29s -- and if you want to play a class that excels in both Solo Queue and Premades, I think Shaman is perfect. On top of that, I think you can play a Shaman with pretty suboptimal gear and be very effective as little of your damage is tied to your items.

    As far as gear goes, I have found I use 3 different builds.

    (1) All Around Support - https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/cNTsTzKRHBfFYUG18NUPRk
    (2) Offensive Spell Power - https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/wj2jmB3hGK6o8Z5PhNSmrT
    (3) Flag Carry - https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/3ZwtQdZ8aZXdWEJpnzoVYS

    I never use my +Healing Set and my Corpsemaker just sits in the bank. My belief on this is the following: Shaman heals are not bad, but they’re OK enough without +Healing. In addition, sually you play a more offensive role and most of your GCDs are best spent using Purge, Shock, or Totem’ing.

    In fact, you most often are a Sheep or under some other CC so it is most important that you Purge the EFC and try to line up an Earth Shock on Polymorph or a Heal.

    However, there are some utility items worth noting:

    1. Windstorm Hammer with Crusader -- Once I use Skullbreaker worth of mana, I switch to this while FCing

    2. Torturing Poker with Fiery -- (I do not have one of these, I have a Scout’s Blade instead. I am not sure which is better). I switch to this in 1v1’s with casters and against Paladin healers. It has a very fast attack speed, which coupled with Searing Totem is very effective at generating pushback. I also will switch to this on Offense when I am low on mana.

    3. Vile Protector with Thorium Spike -- I have a Weak Aura that detects if I am wearing Basalt Buckler and have taken 90 Damage and used 105 Mana. Once it is detected, I switch to the Vile Protector with Thorium Spike. It gives me slightly more armor, a mostly negligible Strength boost and proc, and lets me use a Thorium Spike which does about 1% of my damage in a 1v1 with a Rogue. It’s small, but I think it’s likely optimal.

    As far as talents go, I’ve changed them a lot. I think right now I have a lot more insight on what is bad than what is good. For example, Concussion is a shitty talent. Each point roughly translates to 1.4 damage to your Earth and Frost shocks, and (just an estimate) 1.7 or so damage on your Flame Shocks. Not great. Convection is better. And if you need to fill up points in Elemental for some reason, I think Elemental Warding is great right now because Scorch Mages are picking up in the meta.

    I think Convection, Elemental Focus, and Improved Ghost Wolf are the best talents. I tried Eyes of the Storm, and it was not nearly as exciting as I thought it would be. I think the biggest reason for this was nobody attacks Shamans really. Mostly, you’re just the target of different CC or slows and they wail on your other teammates. Not to mention, the only abilities you use a cast bar are Improved Ghost Wolf and Lesser Healing Wave. I think maybe if I were on Defense more supporting EFC this would come up, but so far I’ve mostly just played offense since Purge is so important.

    The talent tree I currently use is as follows:

    [​IMG]


    I think there are a few points of contention when filling out this talent tree:

    • Ancestral Knowledge vs Shield Specialization -- I think it’s a toss up between Ancestral Knowledge and Shield Specialization. It is worth noting that it is gear additive, meaning it calculates 5% from your geared/buffed mana pool, not your base mana pool. If I stopped Solo Queueing completely, I’d get AK. But Shield Spec is good for fending off Rogues as an FC. Especially with a Thorium Shield Spike.

    • ⅖ Reverbration vs. ⅔ Lightning Shield -- I mostly want to point out Imp Lighting Shield is a really good talent for PvP. But Earth Shock having a lower CD is really too good to pass up.

    Lastly, earlier when I said Shaman could be a really good class under budget. I think it’s possible to make a good shaman for like 100g or less.

    Right now, on Stalagg, you could make this exact Shaman for about 50g: https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/3MN1RngDFALfBVVzmDfRxa. And I think it probably is good enough to be competitive in both Solo Q and Premade.

    It is also worth noting that it took me about 500 games (probably more) to come to pretty much the exact same conclusions as Shmuck put in his guide. So, mad props to him.
     
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  18. SbdaddyOG

    SbdaddyOG Member

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    Good write up.
    edit: just realized you're Wouch. Legit skills.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  19. OP
    BARNYARD

    BARNYARD Member

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    Thanks man. You too. I am hoping to add to the thread as I continue improving.
     
  20. SbdaddyOG

    SbdaddyOG Member

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