29 Frost Mage

[Healsatin]

He's not talking about group queuing into randoms. He's talking about doing wargames with friends. Where all you have are good players queuing against each other.



No, it really doesn't. Here's an example: Priestz @ Ursin - Community - World of Warcraft

This is my Priest. Look at how much Haste I have. Notice how I'm using Elemental Force instead of +16 sp on my weapon? Notice how I'm using a lot of gear that has a balance of stats? This is how you make a 29. You don't find lower level green/blue items that have only your main stat and then throw them on your toon.

Overall stats? 5.2k hp unbuffed. 216 spellpower. 33.43% haste. 12.61% crit. Those two stats equate to an extra 46% DPS. Because secondary stats are amazing at low levels.

lol i hope you're trolling because crit only gives a 50% increase in dmg in relation to it's %. so your 12.61% crit should only increase your dmg by 6.305% so you can't simply add your haste to your crit and expect to get the correct dmg increase, that's just not how it works at all. your math is bad, and you should feel bad. it's also widely accepted that in this xpac primary stats increase dmg more than secondary stats since crit got nerfed hard in wod.

 

[Snack]

Did we tame the wild willix?

 

[Donteventrii]

lol i hope you're trolling because crit only gives a 50% increase in dmg in relation to it's %. so your 12.61% crit should only increase your dmg by 6.305% so you can't simply add your haste to your crit and expect to get the correct dmg increase, that's just not how it works at all. your math is bad, and you should feel bad. it's also widely accepted that in this xpac primary stats increase dmg more than secondary stats since crit got nerfed hard in wod.

Again, someone who misrepresents PvP play and mindless PvE damage, and this time not even accounting for Shatter's 1.5X crit multiplier (the only time a Mage does damage). Tell me, when you are casting a 2 second Frostbolt, and the enemy LOSes you, how much increased damage did that Int provide? How about when you are chaining Polymorphs to burn thru trinkets, taking 1.7 seconds on each cast = longer time to get back to Frostbolt, is Int helping with Poly? How about fishing for FoF proc (the only source of burst damage), is Int helping you fish faster or do a measly bit of more damage on Frostbolt? How about when you are line up full burst with 4x FoF on demand, but only have 6 seconds until a healer gets out of a Poly, is Int helping to reduce your GCD to finish the kill? How about when you are just trying to Poly, and expect an interrupt, but your opponent expects you to fake and waits until 1.3 seconds, landing the interrupt and causing that sunk time to be wasted; instead of pushing out a 1.35 second Poly, and them having to panic at 1 second as to whether you are faking or not? How about the Druid healer who can easily shift your Polys because at 1.7 seconds, he is never without a global to spare instead of always trying to guess when you might warm up a fast poly and catch him global locked? IS INT REALLY HELPING YOU WIN?

I hope I have successfully explained why Int isn't desirable in a PvP setting where time is everything to control and damage in the current state of the 29 Frost Mage.

 

[willix]

I wouldn't bother, Nasty. These 19s have spent their entire twinking lives stacking whatever single stat gives them the most damage so they can open on a target and kill it without any effort. Talking about nuance, other options, and different play styles, you might as well be speaking Japanese to them.

 

[Snack]

I wouldn't bother, Nasty. These 19s have spent their entire twinking lives stacking whatever single stat gives them the most damage so they can open on a target and kill it without any effort. Talking about nuance, other options, and different play styles, you might as well be speaking Japanese to them.

Japanese would be better than this bullshit...:

Again, someone who misrepresents PvP play and mindless PvE damage, and this time not even accounting for Shatter's 1.5X crit multiplier (the only time a Mage does damage). Tell me, when you are casting a 2 second Frostbolt, and the enemy LOSes you, how much increased damage did that Int provide? How about when you are chaining Polymorphs to burn thru trinkets, taking 1.7 seconds on each cast = longer time to get back to Frostbolt, is Int helping with Poly? How about fishing for FoF proc (the only source of burst damage), is Int helping you fish faster or do a measly bit of more damage on Frostbolt? How about when you are line up full burst with 4x FoF on demand, but only have 6 seconds until a healer gets out of a Poly, is Int helping to reduce your GCD to finish the kill? How about when you are just trying to Poly, and expect an interrupt, but your opponent expects you to fake and waits until 1.3 seconds, landing the interrupt and causing that sunk time to be wasted; instead of pushing out a 1.35 second Poly, and them having to panic at 1 second as to whether you are faking or not? How about the Druid healer who can easily shift your Polys because at 1.7 seconds, he is never without a global to spare instead of always trying to guess when you might warm up a fast poly and catch him global locked? IS INT REALLY HELPING YOU WIN?

I hope I have successfully explained why Int isn't desirable in a PvP setting where time is everything to control and damage in the current state of the 29 Frost Mage.

 

[willix]

Japanese would be better than this bullshit...:

But he's right. You kids have literally spent the last 6 years graveyard farming random scrubs into the ground in the 19 bracket with gear sets that prioritize primary stats above all else, at the cost of any possible nuance low level pvp might have. Who cares about survival? I have a respawn timer at the GY if and when I get killed! Who cares about defensive play? I just open on someone, dump as much damage as I can into them, and send them back to the spirit healer! Rinse and repeat, that's pvp to me!

Meanwhile, the rest of us understand nuance and why we got into twinking in the first place: to explore a world of pvp outside of the stupid gib fests that are random XP on BGs. Some of us actually appreciate and recognize skilled play and the rewards that come from it. We care about having fun and fostering community. You care about putting people in the dirt as fast as possible.

That's why what he says is valid and what you say is meaningless.

 

[partygirl]

I wouldn't bother, Nasty. These 19s have spent their entire twinking lives stacking whatever single stat gives them the most damage so they can open on a target and kill it without any effort. Talking about nuance, other options, and different play styles, you might as well be speaking Japanese to them.

Doesn't matter what gear we have we are still better than you are :^)

 

[clarification]

Lesser players will always require more defensive stats to make up for their flaws.

 

[Snack]

But he's right. You kids have literally spent the last 6 years graveyard farming random scrubs into the ground in the 19 bracket with gear sets that prioritize primary stats above all else, at the cost of any possible nuance low level pvp might have. Who cares about survival? I have a respawn timer at the GY if and when I get killed! Who cares about defensive play? I just open on someone, dump as much damage as I can into them, and send them back to the spirit healer! Rinse and repeat, that's pvp to me!

Meanwhile, the rest of us understand nuance and why we got into twinking in the first place: to explore a world of pvp outside of the stupid gib fests that are random XP on BGs. Some of us actually appreciate and recognize skilled play and the rewards that come from it. We care about having fun and fostering community. You care about putting people in the dirt as fast as possible.

That's why what he says is valid and what you say is meaningless.

I think you have misunderstood PvP. It's about beating your opponents, not circle jerking in mid with your 1.3 sec frost bolts that hit for 200

 

[Healsatin]

Again, someone who misrepresents PvP play and mindless PvE damage, and this time not even accounting for Shatter's 1.5X crit multiplier (the only time a Mage does damage). Tell me, when you are casting a 2 second Frostbolt, and the enemy LOSes you, how much increased damage did that Int provide? How about when you are chaining Polymorphs to burn thru trinkets, taking 1.7 seconds on each cast = longer time to get back to Frostbolt, is Int helping with Poly? How about fishing for FoF proc (the only source of burst damage), is Int helping you fish faster or do a measly bit of more damage on Frostbolt? How about when you are line up full burst with 4x FoF on demand, but only have 6 seconds until a healer gets out of a Poly, is Int helping to reduce your GCD to finish the kill? How about when you are just trying to Poly, and expect an interrupt, but your opponent expects you to fake and waits until 1.3 seconds, landing the interrupt and causing that sunk time to be wasted; instead of pushing out a 1.35 second Poly, and them having to panic at 1 second as to whether you are faking or not? How about the Druid healer who can easily shift your Polys because at 1.7 seconds, he is never without a global to spare instead of always trying to guess when you might warm up a fast poly and catch him global locked? IS INT REALLY HELPING YOU WIN?

I hope I have successfully explained why Int isn't desirable in a PvP setting where time is everything to control and damage in the current state of the 29 Frost Mage.

ok, but willix literally said that his crit and haste added together will lead to a flat increase in dmg equal to those percentages, which i just had to correct because it's 100% incorrect, but he was talking about his spriest, so i responded to that in regards to his spriest. yeah, haste might be better for frost mages since their primary role should be for cc (and to get fof procs), but it is widely accepted that int is better than secondary stats for the vast majority of int users for pure dmg purposes and that agi is THE only stat you should be going for on a rogue in this patch. The point i was trying to make was that willix was incorrect in his math, not necessarily that haste is bad, as i only specifically mentioned crit got nerfed (and you're right i didn't take shatter into account because how the hell can i predict how many fof procs you'll get or how many nova's won't get broken by jajas and i was simply responding to his poor math relating to a spriest). I also never said to only go int, like at all. I just meant that secondary stats are generally not as desirable as primary stats in this xpac, not to avoid them completely and obviously you need stam to a point where you're comfortable, sorry if you guys are way behind on the times.
willix you need to calm down kid. I literally never said to go full int, just that it provides more of a dmg increase than secondary stats, you guys seriously need to work on your reading comprehension. You literally know nothing about the 19 bracket, and you should stop making stuff up. 19s have not been only stacking primary stats for the past 6 years like you claim. the change to stat weights came with wod, so idk how you can say that 19s have been stacking only primary stats for 6 years even tho it's only been that way for like less than a year. Have you even taken a look at my priest? as i prioritize haste over sp for many of my enchants. Sorry you're lost at ramp and have no idea what's going on in the game. Your opinion on stat weights doesn't change how they actually function. Just because there are options doesn't mean one of those options isn't clearly better than the others. There is little nuance behind lower lvl pvp like you claim, there is simply a bis and everything that ins't bis. You're delusional if you think that there isn't a set bis set for low lvl pvp just like there's a bis setup at 100. You're also crazy if you think that the 20-29 bracket is more competitive than 19s. I literally don't understand how you can say that 20-29s are more competitive than 19s if you play a 29 yourself. 29s are there to faceroll f2ps, where 19s are all on an equal playing field with equal access to gear and enchants as opposed to 20-29 where the majority of the people can't get the gear or enchants 29s have. 19s are in no way how you are describing them and you should feel bad for misrepresenting it. 19s do not simply stack whatever primary stat benefits them like you are claiming. Do you even have a 19 willix because you're talking a lot of shit for someone who doesn't play 19s consistently. You must be trolling because 19's depend entirely on our community, and how is trying to kill someone as quickly as possible a negative? are we not supposed to try to land any kills? or what, your logic baffles me

 

[Raz]

ok, but willix literally said that his crit and haste added together will lead to a flat increase in dmg equal to those percentages, which i just had to correct because it's 100% incorrect, but he was talking about his spriest, so i responded to that in regards to his spriest. yeah, haste might be better for frost mages since their primary role should be for cc (and to get fof procs), but it is widely accepted that int is better than secondary stats for the vast majority of int users for pure dmg purposes and that agi is THE only stat you should be going for on a rogue in this patch. The point i was trying to make was that willix was incorrect in his math, not necessarily that haste is bad, as i only specifically mentioned crit got nerfed (and you're right i didn't take shatter into account because how the hell can i predict how many fof procs you'll get or how many nova's won't get broken by jajas and i was simply responding to his poor math relating to a spriest). I also never said to only go int, like at all. I just meant that secondary stats are generally not as desirable as primary stats in this xpac, not to avoid them completely and obviously you need stam to a point where you're comfortable, sorry if you guys are way behind on the times.
willix you need to calm down kid. I literally never said to go full int, just that it provides more of a dmg increase than secondary stats, you guys seriously need to work on your reading comprehension. You literally know nothing about the 19 bracket, and you should stop making stuff up. 19s have not been only stacking primary stats for the past 6 years like you claim. the change to stat weights came with wod, so idk how you can say that 19s have been stacking only primary stats for 6 years even tho it's only been that way for like less than a year. Have you even taken a look at my priest? as i prioritize haste over sp for many of my enchants. Sorry you're lost at ramp and have no idea what's going on in the game. Your opinion on stat weights doesn't change how they actually function. Just because there are options doesn't mean one of those options isn't clearly better than the others. There is little nuance behind lower lvl pvp like you claim, there is simply a bis and everything that ins't bis. You're delusional if you think that there isn't a set bis set for low lvl pvp just like there's a bis setup at 100. You're also crazy if you think that the 20-29 bracket is more competitive than 19s. I literally don't understand how you can say that 20-29s are more competitive than 19s if you play a 29 yourself. 29s are there to faceroll f2ps, where 19s are all on an equal playing field with equal access to gear and enchants as opposed to 20-29 where the majority of the people can't get the gear or enchants 29s have. 19s are in no way how you are describing them and you should feel bad for misrepresenting it. 19s do not simply stack whatever primary stat benefits them like you are claiming. Do you even have a 19 willix because you're talking a lot of shit for someone who doesn't play 19s consistently. You must be trolling because 19's depend entirely on our community, and how is trying to kill someone as quickly as possible a negative? are we not supposed to try to land any kills? or what, your logic baffles me

how do you bother typing this much lol

 

[Mesikämmen]

how do you bother typing this much lol

yea idd they shud just change twinkinfo into twitter, who the hell needs more than 140 characters lol ahah fucking autistic nerds :--D

 

[Raz]

yea idd they shud just change twinkinfo into twitter, who the hell needs more than 140 characters lol ahah fucking autistic nerds :--D

ikr leik u can just type like dis then u save space yy

 

[willix]

Or you could use proper grammar and punctuation like a somewhat educated human being, instead of coming across like a full on retard who's never heard of a period.

As far as my math goes, yeah I forgot that crits were 150% instead of 200%. Doesn't change the fact that 34% haste is still a huge damage increase and worth having over a little bit of extra spell power. If you figure in my crit change into that, it's still about 40% extra damage from secondary stats. The rest of your post is pure drivel and I don't think you realize what we're talking about here.

I think you have misunderstood PvP. It's about beating your opponents, not circle jerking in mid with your 1.3 sec frost bolts that hit for 200

You're right! PVP is about farming unorganized, unskilled players into the ground and not caring about how they feel! We should all just dogpile into one faction of the bracket and fuck over all the unsuspecting noobs who are solo queuing! Because that's what PVP is about according to shitbox 19s!

Realistically, if I wanted to play the game the way you 19s do, I would just go play CoD or some other insta gib FPS game. We 29s expect more from the game than that. We want balanced fights, where the nuances of each class matters. Not just pushing your biggest damage buttons and claiming victory. If casting faster Frostbolts doesn't matter in pvp, there's a problem with game design and it should be addressed. If controlling fights as a mage doesn't matter, there's a problem with game design and it should be addressed.

However, I don't think there is in fact, a problem with these things. We've played 29s wargames with balanced teams, these things seem to be working correctly. Instead, I'm pretty sure you're the problem. You are lost as fuck and are speaking from the perspective of someone who is used to things being super shitty due to poor game design and lack of real challenges within your bracket.

Yes, I've played 19s off and on over the last 8 years. I've seen the bracket go from something resembling a reasonable mix of skilled players who care about the bracket, to the shit show they've been since Cata. 19s are like an abusive relationship where both parties refuse to leave because 'they love each other,' even though the state of pvp in that bracket is abysmal and the people who participate in it are extremely toxic.

I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying to you or to realize how things at 29 differ, but I am challenging you to step outside of your little tiny box and see how the rest of the world operates, and maybe understand how it's better than what you've experienced in the past. Oh, and for future reference, when I talk about 29s, I'm not including the shit show that is the 20-29 bracket, with their random BGs and garbage presence.

I'm typically referring to past and present 29s wargames activity. Something that is wholly better and more representative of what twinking should be like.

 

[partygirl]

never heard of a period.

You seem to be on yours quite often :^)

 

[clarification]

Or you could use proper grammar and punctuation like a somewhat educated human being, instead of coming across like a full on retard who's never heard of a period.

As far as my math goes, yeah I forgot that crits were 150% instead of 200%. Doesn't change the fact that 34% haste is still a huge damage increase and worth having over a little bit of extra spell power. If you figure in my crit change into that, it's still about 40% extra damage from secondary stats. The rest of your post is pure drivel and I don't think you realize what we're talking about here.

The total amount of your secondary stats is irrelevant unless you assume that people who prioritize primary stats have zero secondary stats. The majority of your haste comes from WoD enchants which does not share slots with spell power.

 

[Mesikämmen]

PVP is about farming unorganized, unskilled players into the ground and not caring about how they feel!

We should all just dogpile into one faction of the bracket and fuck over all the unsuspecting noobs who are solo queuing! Because that's what PVP is about according to shitbox 19s

Funny 'cause this describes 20-29 EU VERY accurately

 

[willix]

Funny 'cause this describes 20-29 EU VERY accurately

1. I don't play EU 29s, so there's that.

2. It also describes the US 20-29 bracket in random BGs. I very clearly mentioned 29 wargames, which necessarily excludes the cesspool of players who inhabit the 20-29 bracket, causing it to be terrible.

The total amount of your secondary stats is irrelevant unless you assume that people who prioritize primary stats have zero secondary stats. The majority of your haste comes from WoD enchants which does not share slots with spell power.

The majority of my haste does indeed come from WoD enchants. A large part of it also comes from gear (42% of my haste rating, or 11.34% haste). And that's not even the most haste I could get from gear. I could use the Scarlet Halls neck, Satchel gloves, and double BoA trinkets for an extra 28 haste, if I wanted to.

 

[Raz]

willix is right as always just quit arguing wont get you anywhere, these ppl are so stubbon just gief up nerds

 

[Allybeboba]

ikr leik u can just type like dis then u save space yy

Like but yeah like... IMHO dat bal set is Leik da beast! But ya! U no.. cba..
So but yeah afik like int scalez bad 4 clazez Leik haste & cryt r gud.

And now to translate for the rest of us.
It is always best to have a balanced set. For many classes int does not scale well. You need to find a butterzone of your most desirable stats. Stacking one stat just gimps your character.

/cheers