EU+US 20's (Veteran & F2P) Tier List - BFA 8.3

[Chops]

Idk how you even got mod all you do is troll people

well thats not *all* I do

and spread misinformation to new users.

No misinformation here, man. You just disagree with a premise.

 

[Neon]

Ok lets put it this way if a rshaman is topping dmg they arent healing their team and being useful, when a hunter mage or boomy outdmgs while making plays. BOOM i win cant debate that.

 

[Chops]

Ok lets put it this way if a rshaman is topping dmg they arent healing their team and being useful, when a hunter mage or boomy outdmgs while making plays. BOOM i win cant debate that.

I dont think anyone would disagree with your general sentiment here. Though I might quibble over the "arent being useful" part. Topping damage, even from a healer, is still useful even if its not the most useful.

 

[Neon]

https://imgur.com/LRHb05N

Insane damage guardian druid. @Musk @zazzyfraz @Childishgankino

A resto shaman cant compete with my shit tier guardian druid how will they compete with me in balance? @Chops @ohti
[doublepost=1596492204,1596492111][/doublepost]Im tired of hearing bs coming from the peanut gallery spreading misinformation.

 

[ohti]

Im tired of hearing bs coming from the peanut gallery spreading misinformation.

And I'm tired of you pinging me over shit Idc ab.

 

[Chops]

anecdote != data

 

[Neon]

And I'm tired of you pinging me over shit Idc ab.

Its funny because you probs have most comments in this thread.
[doublepost=1596492623,1596492569][/doublepost]

anecdote != data

Facts are a healer isnt going to pump harder than a raw dps of same skill levels.

 

[ohti]

Its funny because you probs have most comments in this thread.

I'm not talking about this thread I'm talking about you.

 

[Kakakaka]

@Neon Gamer, gamer... In actual wargames with 4 healer meta (most played meta in BFA), rsham is literally a dps. What you've played this expansion can barely even be considered wargames, and although this isn't your fault, fact is that your opinion is very curved and incorrect for many reasons. Generally, the top dps in a competitive wargame will look something like this: Boomy>MM hunter>Rsham>Arcane>Ele>Disc>Rdruid=Rogue. Facts are that you do not get the story correct the first time, so I have to plop myself back into this thread and fix it. If you want to disagree or debate, msg me on discord.

 

[Neon]

@Neon Gamer, gamer... In actual wargames with 4 healer meta (most played meta in BFA), rsham is literally a dps. What you've played this expansion can barely even be considered wargames, and although this isn't your fault, fact is that your opinion is very curved and incorrect for many reasons. Generally, the top dps in a competitive wargame will look something like this: Boomy>MM hunter>Rsham>Arcane>Ele>Disc>Rdruid=Rogue. Facts are that you do not get the story correct the first time, so I have to plop myself back into this thread and fix it. If you want to disagree or debate, msg me on discord.

Ok bud.
[doublepost=1596494072,1596493945][/doublepost]My affliction lock will beat all of those juan.

 

[Kirise]

Generally, the top dps in a competitive wargame will look something like this: Boomy>MM hunter>Rsham>Arcane>Ele>Disc>Rdruid=Rogue.

In the couple hundred PuGs I played this summer, that damage comparison held true overall other than ele, who just didn't appear enough to consistently put in a given place, so I have no point of reference. But I buy that damage order anyway.

 

[Rawfoodvegan]

I outdamage mages and hunters all day on rsham.

There’s damage potential and then there’s actual damage output.

A mage or a hunter can theoretically pump out more damage than rsham, sure. But in practice, they die more frequently so spend more time at the graveyard, and they’re squishier and not self-sufficient so spend more time re-positioning and playing close to their healers.

An rsham, on the other hand, can keep a few flame shocks up all match and consistently pump out tick damage. They’re tanky and don’t die nearly as much. They can be more aggressive and dive deeper into an enemy backline without getting blown up, and they’re self-sufficient so can go and defend/cap a base solo (if the team comp supports it and they aren’t needed elsewhere).

I.E. they’re basically always in the action (maximum damage uptime).

Just keeping Flame Shocks up on CD and maybe throwing out a few Saltwater Lava Bursts when we’re pushing through a clash or when capping/defending a flag, I’ll consistently top scoreboard over mages/hunters (not that that’s most important, or that being on the top of the scoreboard actually matters, but for the sake of this argument is worth noting) because they can’t actually realize their full damage potential because they’re stuck running back and forth from the graveyard or pussy-footing around at a safe distance in a team fight, trying not to get one-shot by overextending.
[doublepost=1596485698,1596484848][/doublepost]A great example of this is our good friend Resil, lol. He has a well-geared MM Hunter who crits for crazy numbers in glass cannon gear, but whenever I queue as RSham with him we’ll be neck-and-neck for top damage. Why? Because he’ll die 4-5 times per BG while I’ll die 0-2, and spends most of the match parachute-cloaking back from the graveyard to where the action is, and when he gets there, dies in like 2 seconds if there isn’t a healer keeping him topped off lmao. Not because he’s bad, but because he has no way to heal himself and if he gets aggressive and over-extends, he’s toast. Shaman and Druid is much more forgiving, and as such you have much more uptime on your damaging abilities.

If your running around in bis gear you can't compare your damage to ramdom mages and hunters that go around dieing. How much damage do you do in a bg exacly? If we have the numbers we can compare for real.

 

[Apnea]

your

you're*

How much damage do you do in a bg exacly? If we have the numbers we can compare for real.

i can't speak for any of the other shamans, but going big balls dps on resto sham i've hit 86k on a long grindy AB battle. i focused almost entirely on damage output and mostly ignored my healing responsibilities.

 

[Goesid]

you're*



i can't speak for any of the other shamans, but going big balls dps on resto sham i've hit 86k on a long grindy AB battle. i focused almost entirely on damage output and mostly ignored my healing responsibilities.

86k on an rsham in 15 man is pretty casual though.

 

[zazzyfraz]

This thread has run its course.

/lock

 

[ohti]

This thread has run its course.

/lock

Don't backseat moderate it's against the rules.

 

[Henry]

If your running around in bis gear you can't compare your damage to ramdom mages and hunters that go around dieing. How much damage do you do in a bg exacly? If we have the numbers we can compare for real.

Look man, it really doesn’t matter lol. The scoreboard and damage meters are a terrible indication of impact on the match (I’d rather a player at the bottom of the DPS charts, but who’s defending an objective all match over an arcane mage who mindlessly runs to mid and spams Missiles all match to inflate meters), and I feel like it hurts most players because they’re just focused on “maxImUm DeEpZ” so they feel proud of themselves and sleep better at night.

I care about Win Rate > Meters, which is why I play Resto over Ele because (per the tier list) I have a greater average impact on the trajectory of the match.

BUT, you asked for numbers so I’ll give you numbers:

Most matches as Resto, I end with 40-70k healing and 40-50k damage.

Matches where there are more healers than we need and I’m basically just DPSing with the occasional Healing Surge in clashes, I’ll finish with 20-30k healing and 60-90k damage.

Matches where I’m the only healer and am stuck on Healing Surge-spam duty all game I’ll get 70-100k healing and 20-40k damage from flame shocks.

Important to note that I’m a Pandaren with the +16 int food in BGs, with decent gear, Flask and Saltwaters, and I’m Alliance and usually queue during Alliance-dominant hours with players who know to defend caps so I don’t need to waste time as an RSham running around the map and defending bases, so have a bit more flexibility to play aggressively without getting destroyed.

Here's a recent one in case you don't believe me:

Twinked - Vet Resto Shaman

• Henry
• Aug 4, 2020

 

[Apnea]

86k on an rsham in 15 man is pretty casual though.

not sure if subtle jab, but that's the point i was trying to make with my comment lol

edit: i see now how the term 'big balls' may have implied huge damage, though i just meant imagining a lil dwarf shaman rolling around doing damage and saying fk healing like his balls are massive. im aware that it's a lower end representation of shamans' damage capability.

 

[Fxv]

I'd bump Feral up to A, from what I've seen they deal the biggest crits and have the highest burst of all specs, along with a strong heal and stealth, as well as basically infinite CC breaker in the form of form swapping

may be a little biased tho
Rduid is just fucking stupid broken so is ret
but def Feral > balance
just need the gear

 

[ohti]

I'd bump Feral up to A, from what I've seen they deal the biggest crits and have the highest burst of all specs,

MM has the highest burst by far, second is probably boomy with double surge.

but def Feral > balance
just need the gear

along with a strong heal and stealth, as well as basically infinite CC breaker in the form of form swapping

Boomy has all of this stuff too but is ranged. I don't understand the reasoning behind feral > boomy, boomy is better by far.

I wouldn't get my panties in a knot if it did go up into A but that's probably being generous.