EU+US 20's (Veteran & F2P) Tier List - BFA 8.3

Henry said:
Does Balance belong in S Tier alongside RSham and Resto Druid? I feel like it's more fitting in Tier A...
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Yes, I'm confident it's the best non-healer spec in the bracket atm.

I lowkey think it's better than rdruid but I know most would disagree with me.
 
Goesid said:
Youre playing ele wrong if you think its that low, it has the same kit as resto which is the strongest in the game at this level, EB, ranged interrupt and ghost wolf. Flame shock dot pressure is incredibly strong. It has the strongest single target heals of any spec.
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Yea, but restor's abilities do x1.7~x2 more dmge than elem's. Earth shock - too long and too hard to collect the maelstorm. With good offhealing I can use earth shock just 3~6 times per BG and its only 3~7% of my total BG's dmge.
For example : elem's lightnings ~200, lava ~230, Fshock per tik ~50, Eshock ~550
Restor in the same gear - lightnings ~370, lava ~450, Fshock per tik ~100. No Eshock, but has trible insta heal.
Today I can take 6~7/10 for elems.
 
Ret seems a little tricky. If you have some juggernaut like Tence does with all versatility and just wrecking ball people with 2 rotations then sure, but if you have some haste/verse stuff even with enchants, you are not going to kill much. It's more about getting on somebody with full hpower, going ham then immediately having another full bar to kill them.
 
Toksh said:
Yea, but restor's abilities do x1.7~x2 more dmge than elem's. Earth shock - too long and too hard to collect the maelstorm. With good offhealing I can use earth shock just 3~6 times per BG and its only 3~7% of my total BG's dmge.
For example : elem's lightnings ~200, lava ~230, Fshock per tik ~50, Eshock ~550
Restor in the same gear - lightnings ~370, lava ~450, Fshock per tik ~100. No Eshock, but has trible insta heal.
Today I can take 6~7/10 for elems.
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1. Its not all about damage.
2. If you have flame shock up your lava bursts will have 100% crit and hit alot more than 230.
3. How many earth shocks you get to do depends entirely on what kind of a match you're in.
 
Goesid said:
1. Its not all about damage.
2. If you have flame shock up your lava bursts will have 100% crit and hit alot more than 230.
3. How many earth shocks you get to do depends entirely on what kind of a match you're in.
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I'll bite.

1. That's exactly the issue. Rsham damage outpaces esham damage on the field, so thunderwolf is the only tactical advantage esham brings.
2. Same for rsham.
3. Earth shock's burst doesn't reach much farther than rsham burst, due to the reduced damage of an esham's other spells.
 
Kirise said:
I'll bite.

1. That's exactly the issue. Rsham damage outpaces esham damage on the field, so thunderwolf is the only tactical advantage esham brings.
2. Same for rsham.
3. Earth shock's burst doesn't reach much farther than rsham burst, due to the reduced damage of an esham's other spells.
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Im not saying ele sham kit is better than rsham, im saying its better than everyone elses.

Yep.

Burst, is still burst.
 
Kirise said:
I'll bite.

1. That's exactly the issue. Rsham damage outpaces esham damage on the field, so thunderwolf is the only tactical advantage esham brings.
2. Same for rsham.
3. Earth shock's burst doesn't reach much farther than rsham burst, due to the reduced damage of an esham's other spells.
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Think we’re all in agreement that ESham is objectively worse than RSham for all the reasons stated.

The question for the tier list is: is Ele more comparable to SPriest, Destro, BM, Survival, Feral, Ret, Arms and HPriest in terms of impact/value in BGs (B Tier, where it’s currently at)?

Or is it closer to Demo, Enhance, Frost, Sub, and WW (current C Tier)?

Or, is it closer to Arcane, Disc, HPriest, Fury, MM, MW, and Outlaw (current A Tier)?

I feel like B Tier is where Ele belongs...it still has the utility of Shear, EB, Ghost Wolf, and Off-Heals, does less damage than S Tier and A Tier specs, but has some (unreliable) burst with Earth Shock.

(When I BG as Ele, my Earth Shock crits for 1100-1200 with Saltwater. I probably get 3 or 4 Earth Shocks off per BG, and usually they’re during a clash because that’s the only time I can effectively build enough Maelstrom. I’ll typically top the Dmg Meters (I’m well-geared and have panda food buff), but I’d be hard pressed to say that my overall impact exceeds that of an equally-geared MM Hunter (who can 1-shot clothies much more frequently than Earth Shock and brings utility of Frost trap and Mortal pets), or Disc Priest (who brings big bubbles and heals and AoE fear), or Outlaw Rogue (who is, arguably, most disruptive in the bracket)).
 
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Henry said:
Think we’re all in agreement that ESham is objectively worse than RSham for all the reasons stated.

The question for the tier list is: is Ele more comparable to SPriest, Destro, BM, Survival, Feral, Ret, Arms and HPriest in terms of impact/value in BGs (B Tier, where it’s currently at)?

Or is it closer to Demo, Enhance, Frost, Sub, and WW (current C Tier)?

Or, is it closer to Arcane, Disc, HPriest, Fury, MM, MW, and Outlaw (current A Tier)?

I feel like B Tier is where Ele belongs...it still has the utility of Shear, EB, Ghost Wolf, and Off-Heals, does less damage than S Tier and A Tier specs, but has some (unreliable) burst with Earth Shock.

(When I BG as Ele, my Earth Shock crits for 1100-1200 with Saltwater. I probably get 3 or 4 Earth Shocks off per BG, and usually they’re during a clash because that’s the only time I can effectively build enough Maelstrom).
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come on, elemental is just a bad balance druid... worse dot and worse burst, I mean there is not really anything else to say or argue. If you have full glass cannon gear, I'm sure you will cook a fool or two. Spreading flame shock around to mitigate bad damage on the charts is not really doing much versus any kind of enemy heals, I'd look at it more on your total killing blows than overall damage.
 
rockworldofwarcraft said:
come on, elemental is just a bad balance druid... worse dot and worse burst, I mean there is not really anything else to say or argue. If you have full glass cannon gear, I'm sure you will cook a fool or two. Spreading flame shock around to mitigate bad damage on the charts is not really doing much versus any kind of enemy heals, I'd look at it more on your total killing blows than overall damage.
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I agree. So where are you proposing it should fall on the list?
 
Maybe I think its a C on vet and a D on f2p. If you really compare it to the gap between it and a goofy S tear like druid, there is no way its not a C or D. or it just depends on what your scale actually looks like/ is spaced out by power level. On f2p I would bet most games I could do more with any tank just throwing kegs/shields around.

S tier..........................................................................................................A tier, B tier, C tier..........D tier.

If it looks like that then maybe it is a B/C

but if it looks like this

S tier... A tier, B tier, C tier, D tier

then its just a C/D with no argument.
 
Goesid said:
Im not saying ele sham kit is better than rsham, im saying its better than everyone elses.

Yep.

Burst, is still burst.
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The shaman kit is not better than anyone else's, but it synergizes unusually well with different shaman healer playstyles. The context of the shaman kit matters. Ele can't leverage the shaman kit anywhere near as effectively as a resto sham can. Greater mobility, playing keep-away, and interrupting an incoming spell does wonders for healers, but not for noodle launchers. Yes, the kit can and does help the rest of the team, but no more than the rest of its B-tier compatriots. A little extra burst doesn't make a little extra impact when connected to the drag chute of reduced overall damage.
 
Kirise said:
The shaman kit is not better than anyone else's, but it synergizes unusually well with different shaman healer playstyles. The context of the shaman kit matters. Ele can't leverage the shaman kit anywhere near as effectively as a resto sham can. Greater mobility, playing keep-away, and interrupting an incoming spell does wonders for healers, but not for noodle launchers. Yes, the kit can and does help the rest of the team, but no more than the rest of its B-tier compatriots. A little extra burst doesn't make a little extra impact when connected to the drag chute of reduced overall damage.
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That's way off.
Sure in a 1v1 a rsham can utilise the interrupt to the fullest extent, but in a setting of 5v5 twink groups in a WSG, its very dangerous for an rsham to dive the enemy team for a 30 range interrupt on enemy healers. The same goes with earthbind, ele can penetrate deeper without instantly getting a target on it's back. Again, the kit is the same so Rsham mobility is the same as ele sham, except less dps on instant and more healing. The overall damage of ele is significantly lower than resto, atleast not enough to warrant labeling that burst as useless. Sure the dots might tick less and the LBs are a little lower but ele doesnt just have the earth shock it also doesnt have a cd on its flame shock, something resto has to deal with, so ele dot pressure is gonna be higher than resto, assuming theres enough targets over an extended period of time.
 
Toksh said:
Did you played Eshammy?0_o
230 its a crit to Fshock. ~130 noncrit.
All of this in ~280sp and ~13%versa
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I have and I dont remember ever seing a 230 lava burst crit. Are you sure you're not playing with ress sickness.
 
Goesid said:
That's way off.
Sure in a 1v1 a rsham can utilise the interrupt to the fullest extent, but in a setting of 5v5 twink groups in a WSG, its very dangerous for an rsham to dive the enemy team for a 30 range interrupt on enemy healers. The same goes with earthbind, ele can penetrate deeper without instantly getting a target on it's back. Again, the kit is the same so Rsham mobility is the same as ele sham, except less dps on instant and more healing. The overall damage of ele is significantly lower than resto, atleast not enough to warrant labeling that burst as useless. Sure the dots might tick less and the LBs are a little lower but ele doesnt just have the earth shock it also doesnt have a cd on its flame shock, something resto has to deal with, so ele dot pressure is gonna be higher than resto, assuming theres enough targets over an extended period of time.
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The question is not "how does ele compare to resto?"

The question is "how does ele compare to shadow/destro" which are the other specs that are quite similar in role and with which is shares a tier.

The answer is, its pretty much the same. Which means its where it needs to be.
 
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