19 Rogue Build and Attacks

[dezziedc]

So for the first time in my 4 years of wowing, I am going to try a twink. And thought I would try a rogue. I've hated them in BGs on all of my toons (swore I would never be one) as I am levelling so I figured I would try twinking one out at 19.



I have read alot of guides and spent most of my working day today going through these forums. There are many differences in the guides and the forums don't seem to be providing me with the info I need - at least not consistantly. Have read the user provided guides here in these forums but there seems to be so many variations. I know it is pretty much a test and see, but I wanted to get some peoples opinions.



So here are the 3 questions.



1. So currently at level 15 I'm farming for all of the standard gear and slowly levelling to give me enough time to get everything. I'm liking the whole stealth/backstab thing at the moment while levelling and testing out different attacks. What would be the best build for burst dps based on stealth and the backstab/ambush abilities?



2. Given the build, what is a good rotation/attack cycle for that build.



3. Finally, I have read varying information on the slow MH/fast OH and there seems to be different views for different builds etc. Is this what I should be aiming for with a burst dps build? I have the gear swapping addon that will switch the weapons following the stealthed attack, but what should I have in my OH (fast sword/dagger?) and what should I be swapping my MH to (slow sword/mace?)?



Just as an additional note, I am using some BOA weapons/gear (shoulders/dagger/bow - although I have serpents and venomstrike as well). Looking at the BOA mace and chest coming in patch 3.2, I'm thinking these will be good upgrades to the gear that is currently considered the best in slot at level 19.

 

[Rayu]

Ok I have to go to work soon so quick reply, will go into detail later:



1. No dagger builds are viable for any serious rogue.

2. There is none, nor does PvP imo use any rotations, it's too much dependant on PvP situations.

3. Use a slow OH, don't switch weapons ever.



Weapons, go for SF/CB Dual LS.

 

[Spooksters]

I'm so confused as to why a dagger backstab/ambush build is not viable...could you throw down some quick "rules" for this Rayu (highly respect you as a 19 rogue ^^) and I've been considering an Assassin's Blade rogue for having some fun in BG's and arenas. I know backstab isn't as strong as swords, but how is it not viable in any form? 30% extra crit for backstab, and 20% more damage (assuming you're going 8/0/2)...I know you don't get stealth increase, but what else am I missing about it?

 

[Doffe]

I'm so confused as to why a dagger backstab/ambush build is not viable...could you throw down some quick "rules" for this Rayu (highly respect you as a 19 rogue ^^) and I've been considering an Assassin's Blade rogue for having some fun in BG's and arenas. I know backstab isn't as strong as swords, but how is it not viable in any form? 30% extra crit for backstab, and 20% more damage (assuming you're going 8/0/2)...I know you don't get stealth increase, but what else am I missing about it?

Because the damage output is alot better spamming SS. It is only viable for fun, but it is not good because of the huge energy cost and the pretty low damage compared to swords.



The best weapon combination is dual wield SF's with various enchants (fiery for most things)

 

[dezziedc]

OK - So I am looking at a 0/10/0 build with something like 2/2 Imp SS, 5/5 DW and 3/5 Precision with 2 slow hands (preferrably both SF) with a choice of LS/Firey/Agility/Sader (in that order).



So with this I am just spamming SS and finish up with one of the finishing moves (most likely Eviscerate). There is no preferred opening move? Possibly a Garrote if you find yourself in the right situation? A gouge during the fight to revive some energy if needed? Otherwise i can only see it as a SS spam.

 

[agility]

Great advantage of dagger spec is that you just can hit trough evasion while you dodge all the attacks of the sword rogue.

(yes you can't dogde from the back for all the fail flag carriers that still think that they can -- l2 backjump)



This is quiet also the reason why I never watch 'max dps calculations' because they'r always made by monkeys that claiming biggest dps also makes that the strongest spec / gear.



imo. just take the spec and gear where your confident with and ignore what other people say about it.

 

[Rayu]

OK - So I am looking at a 0/10/0 build with something like 2/2 Imp SS, 5/5 DW and 3/5 Precision with 2 slow hands (preferrably both SF) with a choice of LS/Firey/Agility/Sader (in that order).



So with this I am just spamming SS and finish up with one of the finishing moves (most likely Eviscerate). There is no preferred opening move? Possibly a Garrote if you find yourself in the right situation? A gouge during the fight to revive some energy if needed? Otherwise i can only see it as a SS spam.

Get your hit rating on your gear not in your talents, I'll make a calculation for you later but trust me - talents are wasted on hit rating.



If you see 19 rogue game-play as an SS spam then I suggest you call yourself Xxistabyouxx and roll a female gnome with DW Tailspike with 15 agility and go for it.



If you want to learn how to seriously play a rogue I suggest you learn how and when to use gouge, bandages, lifeblood, evasion, sprint, AGM, PvP trinket, stealth, sap and garrote, I think you'll have your hands full for quite some time. Ambush can't be on any actionbar, backstab ONLY if you know how to garrote the right way. Scan the forums for an earlier thread of mine for this info.

 

[dezziedc]

Get your hit rating on your gear not in your talents, I'll make a calculation for you later but trust me - talents are wasted on hit rating.



If you see 19 rogue game-play as an SS spam then I suggest you call yourself Xxistabyouxx and roll a female gnome with DW Tailspike with 15 agility and go for it.



If you want to learn how to seriously play a rogue I suggest you learn how and when to use gouge, bandages, lifeblood, evasion, sprint, AGM, PvP trinket, stealth, sap and garrote, I think you'll have your hands full for quite some time. Ambush can't be on any actionbar, backstab ONLY if you know how to garrote the right way. Scan the forums for an earlier thread of mine for this info.

yeah I'm not expecting to walk in and be the best rogue in BGs on my first run. the main reason for posting is to learn a little from the pros here and get off to a good start with a solid spec and a bit of an understanding on how to use that spec to its best ability.



Yes I see the value in not assigning hit in the talents - what are the best alternatives here?



I will look for your other thread and see if I can get some ideas out of it.



Agility: Yes, this is probably what I will end up doing anyway - spending lots of gold on respecs and re-enchanting items to get something that matches my play style and what I enjoy - just as I have done with all my other toons. However the idea was to get peoples opinions on what they believe is the best options given the details I provided.

 

[Doffe]

imo. just take the spec and gear where your confident with and ignore what other people say about it.

Yes, and eventually you will see for yourself that daggers are in fact terrible and Sinister Strike is better than Backstab.

3. Finally, I have read varying information on the slow MH/fast OH and there seems to be different views for different builds etc. Is this what I should be aiming for with a burst dps build? I have the gear swapping addon that will switch the weapons following the stealthed attack, but what should I have in my OH (fast sword/dagger?) and what should I be swapping my MH to (slow sword/mace?)?

The weapon speed in offhand doesn't really matter. A slow weapon will hit harder, fast ones faster but less. Pretty logical. Slow weapons have a tiny bit more potential for burst, and for jousting, but it doesn't really matter in my experience. Go for the weapon that gives most dps.

 

[CIHC]

"Garrote the right way"



Meaning, it lands but you don't break them from sap? :3

 

[Rayu]

"Garrote the right way"



Meaning, it lands but you don't break them from sap? :3

You got it.

 

[Grunge]

make a macro



/cast Garrote

/stopattack

 

[Rayu]

make a macro



/cast Garrote

/stopattack

Depending on your latency this method fails quite often.

 

[WSG]

I rolled with a dagger spec for awhile just to try it out. Was only good for two things:

1) Fun. "ZOMG big number! /drool"

2) Opening with a huge burst on a 100% debuffed EFC. With consumables it was possible to pull an Ambush/Backstab combo that would kill them (in pugs, mind you). 100% debuffs are going to become more rare than the summonable mobs in AV after this next patch, so this isn't really a niche worth filling.



I'm currently having fun with a Garrote spec. 5/5 Malice, 2/2 Blood Spatter, 2/2 Opportunity and the [ITEM]Glyph of Garrote[/ITEM]. I think I stuffed the last point in Imp Stealth or Imp Gouge. I mainly pug WSG on my rogue, so 3/3 Eviscerate wouldn't help me too much, but would probably be better than 3 of the points in Malice if doing premades.



Not saying this is the best, just saying that there are a lot of options for rogues, play around with builds. Find one that fits you.

 

[CIHC]

Depending on your latency this method fails quite often.

Fix dis macro for me please Rayu~



#<(;~;(< all the chocowat waffles in the world will be yours!

 

[Zatox]

from experience, i'd say backstab is your worst option out there, yeah maybe when your bored and get some extra gold to do it, but until then, SS spam is win.



very easy starting setup is Cruel Barb - 15agi and Wingblade -15agi.



static AP and gives you time to learn your rogue a bit.



as for spec, it's all what you prefer, im currently using 5/5 Malice, 2/2 Imp SS, 3/5 DW Spec



and as for finishing moves/openers, if you've got enough health and a healer just avoid using stealth as it slows you down wayyy too much in the 19s, and if you insist, garrote.



and as for finishers, unless your going to hit cap, i tend to use Slice and Dice over Eviscerate, because no one wants to miss an eviscerate :[

 

[WSG]

and as for finishers, unless your going to hit cap, i tend to use Slice and Dice over Eviscerate, because no one wants to miss an eviscerate :[

In 3.2, capping Hit will be easy. BoA Shoulders + BoA Chest = 10 Hit. 11 is the soft cap so either the BoA offhand dagger or the [ITEM]Deviate Scale Belt[/ITEM] will get you there.

 

[Xäo]

In 3.2, capping Hit will be easy. BoA Shoulders + BoA Chest = 10 Hit. 11 is the soft cap so either the BoA offhand dagger or the [ITEM]Deviate Scale Belt[/ITEM] will get you there.

Damn I need an 80.



Just thought I'd mention something that hasn't been said. Don't even think about playing backstab spec unless you've got really good latency. On a 300+ ping it can be really hard to get behind your opponent.



If you're running abnormally good one day try switching it up and doing a few ambush/backstabs. You'll actually feel like a rogue as opposed to a Warrior with stealth. Fun to mess around with.

 

[Rayu]

from experience, i'd say backstab is your worst option out there, yeah maybe when your bored and get some extra gold to do it, but until then, SS spam is win.



very easy starting setup is Cruel Barb - 15agi and Wingblade -15agi.



static AP and gives you time to learn your rogue a bit.



as for spec, it's all what you prefer, im currently using 5/5 Malice, 2/2 Imp SS, 3/5 DW Spec



and as for finishing moves/openers, if you've got enough health and a healer just avoid using stealth as it slows you down wayyy too much in the 19s, and if you insist, garrote.



and as for finishers, unless your going to hit cap, i tend to use Slice and Dice over Eviscerate, because no one wants to miss an eviscerate :[

1) Backstab HAS a function, but for most it gives so much trouble it's best to leave it out.

2) Dual 15 agility is only good for RvR.

3) I like the spec, might try it some time. I take it you play WSG?

4) I jump on my target, stealth and garrote within a second, wouldn't call that much of a slow-down... but no you shouldn't be stealthing in mid-field waiting for people to come to you.

5) If you miss and eviscerate you don't lose your combo points, no worries.

 

[Casinex]

you don't need a macro to garrote without breaking sap.



It's about 'aim' (if you can call it that :S)/positioning the front of your character before using garrote.



Dual 15 agi's aren't even good for RvR anymore, tbh.



There are a lot of specs out there to try, but imo anything with Malice is terrible.



3/3 Imp Evisc - 2/2 Imp SS (Glyph for SS) - 5/5 Relentless Strikes (imo, best spec for pure damage)



3/3 MoD - 2/2 Opportunity - 3/3 Camo - 2/2 Dirty Tricks (amazing spec, very useful for duels, and CCing in premades)



3/3 MoD - 2/2 Opportunity - 2/2 Dirty Tricks - 3/3 Imp Gouge (Spec I used before getting used to the 4 second restealths/stealth movement increase from Camouflage.