+15 Agility / Lifestealing / Fiery Weapon / Crusader ?

Delgan

Legend
Excuse me if you find my question unnecessary, but it's something that bothers me. Just looking at the Magelo profiles of the Hall of Fame, I realize that the choice of each differs.



I have not found my happiness in the different topics of this forum, so I decided to create one myself. If ever I missed something, thank you for redirecting me.



Above all, I said that this is a discussion about a level 1 rogue twink. My main interests are the PvP against any characters level 1x, and solo PvE.



So, my question is : what is the best weapon enchant between +15 Agility, Lifestealing, Fiery Weapon and Crusader ?



I know the question "what is the best" is perhaps not make sense... Because it depends on our preferences, our way of playing, the context PvE / PvP, the enemy facing us, and so on. However, please tell me how can I choose this?

Of course, I'll use a slow weapon for more damage (Sinister Strike, procs from enchants).

Moreover, the question arises as to the weapon of the right hand and of left hand...



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As a reminder:



+15 Agility means at Level 1 :

+6.6 Crit

+13.5 Dodge

+30 Attack Power



Lifestealing normally steals 30 and heals 30 points.

Here is a very impressive study of this enchant.

Chance on hit (%) = weapon speed * 7.87



Fiery Weapon adds sometimes 40 fire damage.



Crusader heals 75~125 and increase Strength by 100 for 15 sec.

Here is a very impressive study of this enchant.

Chance on hit (%) = weapon speed * 1.82

+100 Strength means +100 Attack Power



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And yet, I have not talked about the enchant Unholy Weapon which is well known but may be interesting. It reduces damage taken by 15 melee and inflicts 30 damage points.



After some calculations, it appears that Lifestealing heals better than Crusader, but I do not know what it is about the damage.

Heal seems for me very important in PvP, but I do not know what you think compared to the impressive increase in damage with Fiery weapon.

+15 agility seems very useful too, because it increases both the damage and survival. Is the best enchant for the left hand weapon ?



In short, I really do not know what to choose. So I hope to get advice from experts, with arguments to make me choose one or the other, or to change my enchant depending on the situation.
 
Fiery does the most raw damage

Lifestealing for PvP because the heals

Crusader is used usually by Pallies/Warriors till it procs, then they switch

Agility will result in the highest all-around benefit and greater dps against higher levels since the others only proc off of hits...and you hit less against higher levels
 
Firery yields the highest dmg before calculating in miss/dodge/parry which comes from higher leveled oppentents....Im not sure if there's an exact point agi takes over but from my understanding it simply does. I have lifesteal + medi + haste gloves equiped in magelo because i feel it is the perfect 1h combination possible and i like to show off this fact. As you said though personal prefrence does come into it....if you like a chant more so than others use it?
 
Unholy does 50 dmg, not 30... on my char atleast:p

I prefer 15 agi to offhand & 15agi/lifestealing to Mainhand.. (have 2 Mainhand weapons). Lets say if its a rogue: the lifestealing doesnt have any effect against the dmg of a hunter / rogue at lvl 1 or higher lvl, so go 15agi. Lvl 1 mage? Lifestealing.

casters - Lifestealing as u cant dodge em

hunters&melee - 15agi.
 
Don't use fiery. You win a duel by getting the enemy to 0 health first right?

Fiery will result in a 40hp difference, 60 if it crits.

Lifesteal will result in a 60hp difference, unless the enemy has a bubble, then it's 30.

So lifesteal is in generall more effective than fiery at winning.

(Not counting resists)



fiery and lifesteal can be resisted and will then deal lower dmg + the proc itself can miss. Even if you had total 7procs one minute a third of them could miss and only 4,6 would deal dmg. As baltronus said lifesteal and fiery will lose power compared to agi as the targets level goes up and they will miss more often.

Unholy enchant however cannot be resisted and all procs will hit and deal about 50 dmg.

Lifesteal procs can proc aditional BWTB procs.



Unholy can be very strong vs melee and hunters so it might be an option (idk) but otherwise stick to combos of lifesteal and agi depending on what you are dueling and personal preferance.



DW will deal more dmg if more than 39% of your attacks hits the target (before counting the extra miss from DW).

SW will deal more dmg if less than 39% of your attacks hits the target.

(This might be a bit off since I did the numbers a long time ago)
 
Don't use fiery. You win a duel by getting the enemy to 0 health first right?

Fiery will result in a 40hp difference, 60 if it crits.

Lifesteal will result in a 60hp difference, unless the enemy has a bubble, then it's 30.

So lifesteal is in generall more effective than fiery at winning.

(Not counting resists)



fiery and lifesteal can be resisted and will then deal lower dmg + the proc itself can miss. Even if you had total 7procs one minute a third of them could miss and only 4,6 would deal dmg. As baltronus said lifesteal and fiery will lose power compared to agi as the targets level goes up and they will miss more often.

Unholy enchant however cannot be resisted and all procs will hit and deal about 50 dmg.

Lifesteal procs can proc aditional BWTB procs.



Unholy can be very strong vs melee and hunters so it might be an option (idk) but otherwise stick to combos of lifesteal and agi depending on what you are dueling and personal preferance.



DW will deal more dmg if more than 39% of your attacks hits the target (before counting the extra miss from DW).

SW will deal more dmg if less than 39% of your attacks hits the target.

(This might be a bit off since I did the numbers a long time ago)



While I agree mostly with your post, I take exception to your logic. If getting your enemy to 0 first is your goal, then you want max dmg. The 30 dmg / 30 heal doesn't achieve that. However, I agree that Lifesteal is the pvp enchant of choice.



Fiery can crit ... I thought that Unholy could not and that's why Fiery is top ... am I mistaken there? Also, Unholy deals shadow damage and it can be resisted like Fiery. The only magic school that can not is Holy.



Agility wins out in DPS if the level is +11
 
Thank you to everyone for all such information and valuable advice! There were many things I had not taken into account, and I am now very well informed.



+15 Agility on each of my two arms seems to be the best option for what I want. But nothing prevents any test. ^^
 
Djaeb, DW doesnt effect hit anymore
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???



24% to miss if you DW ... 5% if you don't



it doesn't affect specials, but it certainly does white attacks
 
While I agree mostly with your post, I take exception to your logic. If getting your enemy to 0 first is your goal, then you want max dmg. The 30 dmg / 30 heal doesn't achieve that. However, I agree that Lifesteal is the pvp enchant of choice.



Fiery can crit ... I thought that Unholy could not and that's why Fiery is top ... am I mistaken there? Also, Unholy deals shadow damage and it can be resisted like Fiery. The only magic school that can not is Holy.



Agility wins out in DPS if the level is +11



You can't get the enemy hp down to 0 if you are dead can you?

if the total heal+dmg of lifesteal would be lower than the average dmg of fiery, fiery would simply be better at winning. Now it's the other way round.



I didn't say unholy can crit, it can't. Simply deals 45-55dmg or something like that. Lower ppm though (3ppm).

Unholy do indeed deal shadow dmg but somehow mobs in duskwood who completely resist lifesteal (Also dealing shadow dmg) take full dmg from unholy. I have used unholy VS many mobs and I have never seen the dmg drop on it that I can remember but the dmg of lifesteal drops on several mobs.
 
You can't get the enemy hp down to 0 if you are dead can you?

if the total heal+dmg of lifesteal would be lower than the average dmg of fiery, fiery would simply be better at winning. Now it's the other way round.



I didn't say unholy can crit, it can't. Simply deals 45-55dmg or something like that. Lower ppm though (3ppm).

Unholy do indeed deal shadow dmg but somehow mobs in duskwood who completely resist lifesteal (Also dealing shadow dmg) take full dmg from unholy. I have used unholy VS many mobs and I have never seen the dmg drop on it that I can remember but the dmg of lifesteal drops on several mobs.



unholy is not resisted, but i think you are wrong on the ppm. my test show it at 6-7 ppm, same as fiery and lifestealing.
 
unholy is not resisted, but i think you are wrong on the ppm. my test show it at 6-7 ppm, same as fiery and lifestealing.



I have seen an extensive research about unholy procrate wich resulted in 3ppm. Also since it deals 45-55 dmg i doubt it would have the same ppm as fiery cuz then only ppl with high critrating would actually gain higher dps from it compared to unholy.



Are you sure that lifesteal have 6-7ppm?

both my tests and the guy in the link at this thread show results close to 4,5ppm. Do you have any screenshots of your recount data used for your tests?
 
Fiery is 6PPM = 40dmg * 6procs = 240dmg (not factoring crits)

Lifesteal is 6PPM = 30dmg * 6procs = 180dmg + 180 hp (although in my tests its more like 4.5PPM)

Unholy is 3PPM = 50dmg * 3 procs = 150dmg



If you want 'burst' / greatest damage Fiery is the way to go.



The curse Unholy puts on a mob/player reduces their melee dmg by 15 (meaning each hit does 15 less dmg) ... if it procs 3x / min then it's a 36 sec uptime ... on a melee (caster would be pointless) mob/player that attacks at 2.4 speed (normalized attack speed), it gets 15 hits in the time Unholy curse is active (assuming 3 non-overlapping Unholy procs) each minute. If the mob hits you for 15 melee damage it is taken off the board (if it hits for 20, 15 is taken off meaning you only get hit for 5, etc...). Minus 15 damage over 15 hits = 225 damage which makes it seem that Unholy is > than Lifesteal.



HOWEVER, we're left with the remainder of the damage that Lifesteal gives (30hp) over Unholy in a minute. For Unholy to win out, it would have to make up that 30dmg before the heal from Lifesteal overtakes the extra 45 damage reduction from Unholy.



Basically, Unholy has to proc 1 time to make up for the lost damage. In the time it takes Unholy to proc one time, Lifesteal will proc 2 times. So, you'd add another 60dmg and 60hp to the equation meaning that Lifesteal is actually the better enchant by 10dmg and 15hp



This is all assuming that Lifesteal procs 6 times per minute...which I do not believe it does. If it procs even 1 time less (and I think it's 1.5 times less) then Unholy is greatly superior



http://www.wowpedia....inute#PPM_Rates

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=20006
 
double posting because there was a long time inbetween edits on the previous one.



all of that to say that all 3 of the enchants have their place in a pve raid situation. when we were raiding on Hyjal, we'd make sure that 2 people had Unholy, 2 had Icy Chill, the rest used Fiery, and the tank used Lifesteal. This maximizes the entire raid. If you are raiding, it is STUPID for you to all use the same enchant ... these are the only debuffs we get!
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The thing with lifesteal and fiery is that even if they proc, the proc itself can miss (unholy can't) and you need high amounts of hit rating for them to be viable compared to unholy. If you do have the hit rating then they are supperior.
 
1) On an Unholy proc, the shadow damage portion of the curse can be resisted since it is a magic school that can be resisted.

2) Shouldn't you be switching to Agility anyway once the mob level out gains the hit rating factor?





-out of curiosity, since this isn't a proc on hit, do higher levels (i.e. 30+) get the curse? because in that case, I couldn't see why I would ever use anything else...since that would be the only way to damage them
 
Could someone with gametime test if unholy can be resisted because I remeber that unholy dealt full dmg vs targets that didn't take any dmg at all from lifesteal, both are supposed to be shadow dmg.



I didn't fully get your last question but I have never ever seen unholy fail to hit, deal full dmg or apply the magic (not curse, tooltip is wrong).
 
well...fiery on procs on a hit...making it worthless for levels above 13



if unholy procs off a swing...it would still hit higher levels. why that matters to me is that when i solo'd Cenarion Emissary, I took close to 4000 swings, but only hit 2 times ... I needed engineering to kill him. this would be the only reliable way to do dmg to levels that high for melee



just wondering if you had encountered that...i'll just do some dummy testing today
 

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