Rogues = Death of the Bracket

Herald said:
ur actually fucking retarded literally 80% of the rogues that keep queing rogues and ruining games have posted in this thread

i was gonna say its fitting that ur avatar is a monkey but ur way too fucking stupid a monkey is smarter than u and would prob play wow better too
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Awesome said:
There were a few really good games I was in today where a few rogues stood out for being extremely annoying... because they were doing what they are supposed to do lol. The rogues were sapping healers, keeping them away from their groups, raping the shit out of them in 2 hits, restealthing, and repeating.

Is this not what rogues are intended to do in PvP?
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u clearly dont know what a good 19 game is but i wouldnt expect u to since ur awareness is probably worse than how retarded u are
 
Herald said:
yeah the ones that are dumb as fuck

the players with a brain move on when the class is beyond useless just look at curley he plays monk now and hes better than 99% of the bracket
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Yeah, but I'm sure people make new toons and bg with them for other reasons and not just only to /apply bandaid to bracket because of rogues.
 
EU suffer/have suffered from the exakt same. agonist is flawlessly correct. btw I find it amusing the same ppl that I've seen here on TI complain about gy-farming or containment, are the same ones that are persistently defending rogues' right to over populate and destruct the bgs
 
inoobupro said:
yes what i meant is a couple of rogues is ok but when you have 4-5....heck even 3 can usually spell a disaster for the whole team
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in a bracket like 19s where a competitive game is 95% of the time spent in a full on mid fight any more than 1 rogue is a liability
 
Solipsist said:
I'm sure people have different opinions on the matter, that's not the point.
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That is the entire point lol. Your opinion is that cutting rogues out of 19s will fix games, and that opinion varies person to person.

A poll would accomplish nothing, we'd be counting books as a library burned.

And yes, FOTM is also kind of the big issue... FOTM = flavor of the month, rogues = abundant, therefore rogues = FOTM. I'm actually getting frustrated now, and I have to be up early for my brother's graduation tomorrow so I have to leave.

Dramatized said:
EU suffer/have suffered from the exakt same. agonist is flawlessly correct. btw I find it amusing the same ppl that I've seen here on TI complain about gy-farming or containment, are the same ones that are persistently defending rogues' right to over populate and destruct the bgs
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I find it amusing that one of the biggest advocates of containment in 19s has just made a thread singling out rogues after having played a hunter in GY for years. I hate to play devil's advocate, but it's true - and it's really frustrating that I'm the only one who can see it this way.

I'm not saying rogues should over-populate anything - I'm just saying that Agonist's goal is not a realistic goal.
 
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FrozenWill said:
I understand bro, but we all know the only options to avoid this are either 1.) "can't beat em, join them" 2.) make a healer with a shitload of health 3.) get a good group of mixed classes with people who know how to handle rogues. Arguing about how shitty a certain class is, isent going to keep people from playing that class lol and 99.9% of this is blizzards fault anyways because they still can't balance classes in pvp and pve.
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problem is u cant really get a good group any more cause most of the good players dont wnat to play the bracket in its current state with all these rogues ruining games

are u rogues trying to dilute the skill level of the bracket by repeling the good players so that tha verage skill level is similar to the f2p bracket cause if so u guys are doing a damn good job
 
Awesome said:
I have a rogue that I spent months gearing and stuff, too - I love my rogue, he's fun, and nostalgic. I don't play him at all because it's detrimental to the bracket's activity and quality.

The argument I'm making is that not everyone shares our opinion, and will continue to play their rogues. I think they're justified, and it's solely a matter of others' opinions that you're presenting.

Remember that short amount of time that hunters were the big thing (still are, but less so), and EVERYONE was complaining about how hunters ruin games, how hunters cause GY farms, how they were unfair, etc. etc.?

And you kept playing your hunter..? Then druids were FOTM, so you made a druid..?

I'm not going for low blows here, I'm just saying that you know exactly how it feels to be proud of a character, love playing it because it's easy and BiS, has a respected name, and is FOTM. I did too for most of wrath and cata, don't get me wrong.
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ur actually retarded

hunters and druids never equally fucked over both teams by making the game not competitive and just an overall shitshow

its not about being proud of a character its called being viable and not fucking over ur team by sitting in stealth and jacking off to ur shadowfangs while the rest of ur non stealth team gets farmed at gy
 
Awesome said:
That is the entire point lol. Your opinion is that cutting rogues out of 19s will fix games, and it's a whole lot of others' opinion that games are becoming inactive for different reasons.

A poll would accomplish nothing, we'd be counting books as a library burned.

And yes, FOTM is also kind of the big issue... FOTM = flavor of the month, rogues = abundant, therefore rogues = FOTM. I'm actually getting frustrated now, and I have to be up early for my brother's graduation tomorrow so I have to leave.
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Of course a poll would accomplish something. It's the community voting for what they think is the most detrimental effect to the bracket. That's like saying other peoples opinions mean nothing. How does that make any sense? Please give me another reason to why games would go inactive then. I can only think of undergeared players, which isn't even that much of a problem.
 
Herald said:
hunters and druids never equally fucked over both teams by making the game not competitive and just an overall shitshow
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You are obviously new, and weren't there.

Solipsist said:
Of course a poll would accomplish something.
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Solipsist said:
It's the community voting for what they think is the most detrimental effect to the bracket. That's like saying other peoples opinions mean nothing. How does that make any sense? Please give me another reason to why games would go inactive then. I can only think of undergeared players, which isn't even that much of a problem.
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Make a poll thread, then, but it wouldn't matter. I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to grasp my argument - I agree, an abundance of rogues is detrimental. And I agree, limiting their number would be convenient. I am only saying that it won't happen.

For the hell of it, though, a few other reason's for a failing bracket COULD be the lack of veteran horde players, abundance of veteran alliance players, NE shadowmeld + rogue equating to Vanish at level 19, Lack of horde leadership, lack of active horde guilds, and pessimism of veterans of both factions.

Just from what I've observed over the passed week or so.
 
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Awesome said:
No, it wouldn't. It was the inverse. And it was just as bad.

Cata-MoP: 5+ hunters on team A = loss for team B.
MoP: 5+ rogues on team A = potential win for team B.
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u seem to get more autistic the more u post

brackets never been in a worse state than when rogues queue in masses it killed the bracket in january and it will kill the bracket again if u fucktards dont stop queuing or play something viable

this is with the exception of when blizz first implemented xp off but had not merged battlegroups but that shit was out of our control unlike the retards who are intentionally killing the bracket by having a circle jerk on their rogues every game
 
Herald said:
u seem to get more autistic the more u post

brackets never been in a worse state than when rogues queue in masses it killed the bracket in january and it will kill the bracket again if u fucktards dont stop queuing or play something viable

this is with the exception of when blizz first implemented xp off but had not merged battlegroups but that shit was out of our control unlike the retards who are intentionally killing the bracket by having a circle jerk on their rogues every game
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Why don't you prove your point or give a valid argument as opposed to just insulting every person who goes against you? are you too stupid?
 
Glazed said:
The only thing that will kill the 19 bracket is people like you guys that sit there and just complain about a class as opposed to doing something about it.
You can't stop people playing from playing their rogues. Learn to deal with it.

Hunters have track stealth, use it to guard your FC or look around someone who got sapped.
Priest bubble usually completely stops a rogue from being able to land a kill.
Shamans and other classes can dot rogues to make them unable to open for a while.
If you have 2-3 rogues sticking together ganking 1 person at a time, try to stick with the group, cause rogues die FAST to a group.

There are many ways to stop this kind of bad play style, and when it is stopped it doesn't make rogues useless.

Rogues can guard your FC, surprising any enemy trying to kill him/her.
Rogues are great Flag carriers themselves. You know how far you can get with a swiftness pot and evasion?
If you're guarding your Fc, and know hes about to die, you can pick the flag up out of stealth and take off with it without anyone expecting you.
You can sap enemy healers before they get in combat to prevent them from being useful for 15 seconds or so.
You can ambush other rogues to kill them quickly.

THE LIST GOES ON.

It's a TEAM effort when it comes to WSG. Play like it, and you won't be complaining about these things.
You know Livingforce the NE priest? He had 1.3k hp at one point, and I would usually get the kill off on him with the opener. You know what he did? HE GOT MORE STAMINA and can outlive the opener well long enough to get me killed.

You know what I did in result of this? Started working with my team to get the healers killed, or sapped him when he was out of combat.

BOTH TEAMS are going to have rogues, making it completely balanced. Seriously.
Learn to play with it.
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Well we're trying to do something about by having rogues play their other classes which many have or roll something else which isn't that hard. I'm aware there are ways to counter rogues, but people don't want to play rogues to begin with. If I wanted to play against an excess amount of rogues I would play 24s. I want this bracket to be competitive, unfortunately that can't happen with the large population of rogues. Look at EU for example, that was one of main reasons it died. It's either rogues make new classes and help the bracket or games suffer and people eventually end up getting frustrated and stop queuing. No way around that course I'm afraid.
 
Herald said:
problem is u cant really get a good group any more cause most of the good players dont wnat to play the bracket in its current state with all these rogues ruining games

are u rogues trying to dilute the skill level of the bracket by repeling the good players so that tha verage skill level is similar to the f2p bracket cause if so u guys are doing a damn good job
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I don't have a 19 rogue, but if I did I wouldn't care if there were threads complaining about how useless they are because at the end of the day there's still going to be the same rogues queuing up regardless if there is a poll or major outcry about how much people hate a certain class lol just have to let it go and move on and think about how to avoid it other than forcing people to play a
Class other than their favorite which in some cases may be a rogue :)
 
Herald said:
u seem to get more autistic the more u post

brackets never been in a worse state than when rogues queue in masses it killed the bracket in january and it will kill the bracket again if u fucktards dont stop queuing or play something viable

this is with the exception of when blizz first implemented xp off but had not merged battlegroups but that shit was out of our control unlike the retards who are intentionally killing the bracket by having a circle jerk on their rogues every game
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Dude seriously you're new here and know nothing, and you are doing nothing but trashing up this thread.
 
Awesome said:
You are obviously new, and weren't there.




Make a poll thread, then, but it wouldn't matter. I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to grasp my argument - I agree, an abundance of rogues is detrimental. And I agree, limiting their number would be convenient. I am only saying that it won't happen.

For the hell of it, though, a few other reason's for a failing bracket COULD be the lack of veteran horde players, abundance of veteran alliance players, NE shadowmeld + rogue equating to Vanish at level 19, Lack of horde leadership, lack of active horde guilds, and pessimism of veterans of both factions.

Just from what I've observed over the passed week or so.
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Well it's not just me. The argument is not relevant to what I'm saying. This whole concept of rogues effort into their class will mean nothing if there are no queues. There were a vast amount of vetaran players at the start of the revival. They slowly depleted because of terrible games with rogues.
 
Solipsist said:
Well it's not just me. The argument is not relevant to what I'm saying. This whole concept of rogues effort into their class will mean nothing if there are no queues. There were a vast amount of vetaran players at the start of the revival. They slowly depleted because of terrible games with rogues.
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If the "veterans" left because they couldn't handle rogues then they probably shouldn't que up lol
 
Solipsist said:
There were a vast amount of vetaran players at the start of the revival. They slowly depleted because of terrible games with rogues.
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Yeah, you're right - there were a lot, now there aren't. But, despite all of the anti-rogue posts made around here, and the messages I've gotten PMd to me while playing my rogue telling me to re roll a ranged class (I'm sure other rogues have gotten that, too) - the rogues are still here, while the veteran twinks have left (or moved to alliance to play NE rogue). They aren't going away, just like hunters never went away.

This is a noble-ish post, and I hate that I had to elaborate upon a simple statement over and over and over - but you can't just tell a rogue to re-roll and expect them to re-roll. A bracket has to adapt, or wait the flavor of the month out.
 
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