29ers that got the bracket started last year.

I want to see an honest farewell to some of the old community standards of the XP-off Dark Ages for Rampage 29s. 2010 witnessed one of their greatest twinker community accomplishments in which I've ever had the privilege to take part. But those days ended even before the battlegroup merge. Let us always remember those days, and let us move on.



I assume you meant Reckoning of 2010? We were able to start out with similar ideals in the first few months of 2011. That's why I, and others (Franchi, Oknob etc.) refuse to believe that we can't do it again. But we became complacent, and the immediate introduction of 5-6+ DetoX players queueing together in one week knocked us back onto our heels from which we could not recover.



For 29s to interest me again, it would take veterans accepting that games will have hunters, will have grandfathered gear, will have PuGmades, consumables, and everything else that other brackets take for granted to varying degrees. Yes, these factors influence games. But nowhere near as much as player attitudes influence games. Right now, 29s do not have a can-do attitude. No promises of balance nor community will attract me if players are gonna act crappy to each other, espousing an expired social contract.



Other brackets currently have less to work with, and achieved greater success that 29s. Let's save the plethora of community goals and rules for premades, and simply lead by example for PuGs. I think we'll find basic tenets of midbrackets intact (e.g. sitting players out to even sides, focus fire in PuGs, etc.), and from there, 29s can start to rebuild.



While I appreciate your sincere and concise opinion, I thoroughly disagree. Given the high population of the 19, 24, 60, 70, and 80 brackets, as well as the ease of gear access and lack of OP grandfathering, we need an edge to get people willing to roll into our bracket. They will not join a Hunter infested and one faction dominant bracket that only gets games 3 nights a week. There are many others that exist nearby with much greater activity.



A social contract is really all we have to offer newcomers. Collectively, we promise to make games as enjoyable for everyone as possible.



I think that your presence as a TI blogger could help in the next few months. You could do a brief expose on the 2010 and 2011 history of the 29 community, as well as our goals for 2012. With high readership volume, surely some will be interested in trying out a bracket that cares about the fun new players must enjoy in order to get them to come back.
 
Unless there is a social contract of not being asshats, I can't say that I'm interested. To be perfectly honest we are all perfectly capable of making games enjoyable for everyone, and it has happened multiple times before.



The pvp in this game is too shitty to be enjoyable on its own, we would need to limit or ban hunters, and make sure the skill is distributed evenly on both sides for it to be in any way competitive or enjoyable.



Sorry if you disagree with me, but the OP asked "what would make you interested in 29s again". Right now between BF3, DotA2, and Madden 12 I don't see 29s as being too appealing in the form it was in during the last month of the bracket.
 
sorry but the fact that 49s still get games (and they only get a few per night) doesnt make up for the fact that 29s had games 3-4 nights per week for the better part of this entire year, and not only a few games a night like 49's, 29 games started at 8pm for me in the central timezone and lasted many times until 2am or even later, thats pretty damn successful if you ask me



I don't dispute that 29s and 39s were both very successful in spring of this year. But where are they now? 49s, 10s, and 60s have greater technical and cultural challenges to face than 29s and 39s did, but 49s, 10s, and 60s still get games (10s play once a month or so). That's what irks me about 29s -- I don't buy the idea that hunters, grandfathered gear, and other "technical" issues broke the bracket, when other brackets with larger challenges continue to overcome them.



You make a great point that 29 game nights ran for several hours at a time. The 29s community had enough depth that players came through in shifts, sustaining game nights better than any other midbracket in 2011. Once 29s got started this year, they seemed to pick up where they left off in 2010. But the much wider scope of merged battlegrounds means a bracket operates differently than it did last year, and 29s have yet to adjust. It frustrates the dickens out of me. I'll address possible solutions in the next post.
 
I assume you meant Reckoning of 2010?



Ugh. Yep, Reckoning. Thank you for catching that.



We were able to start out with similar ideals in the first few months of 2011. That's why I, and others (Franchi, Oknob etc.) refuse to believe that we can't do it again. But we became complacent, and the immediate introduction of 5-6+ DetoX players queueing together in one week knocked us back onto our heels from which we could not recover.



With merged battlegroups, I believe it was a matter of time before a squad of well-geared 29s arrived/returned to PuGmade. I've always been firmly against PuGmades in the midbrackets for precisely the destruction it caused 29s, 39s, and 49s earlier this year. For all the benefits of merged battlegrounds, they lend themselves to PuGmades, which were destined to happen at some point. That's the nature of the beast. In a twisted way, it's a tribute to 29s that the bracket got large enough to attract two different PuGmades.



The problems with 29s started before PuGmades showed up. The forum trolling, endless QQ about lack of player skills, and so on, began to sour 29s before the PuGmades appeared.



While I appreciate your sincere and concise opinion, I thoroughly disagree. Given the high population of the 19, 24, 60, 70, and 80 brackets, as well as the ease of gear access and lack of OP grandfathering, we need an edge to get people willing to roll into our bracket. They will not join a Hunter infested and one faction dominant bracket that only gets games 3 nights a week. There are many others that exist nearby with much greater activity.



A social contract is really all we have to offer newcomers. Collectively, we promise to make games as enjoyable for everyone as possible.



If by social contract you mean sitting out players to even sides, encouraging rolling toons on both factions, and upholding a congenially competitive atmosphere, then yes, 29s can offer that (in spades, if we choose). And I think we'd find a lot of takers. But if you mean class and gear bans, I don't think those will fly. The community isn't tight enough to do it. That said, while new players will not join a faction-dominated bracket, I think some would gladly join a hunter-infested bracket if the standards of PuG play significantly surpassed what 19s and 20-24 offer. And frankly, that wouldn't be hard to achieve.



I think that your presence as a TI blogger could help in the next few months. You could do a brief expose on the 2010 and 2011 history of the 29 community, as well as our goals for 2012. With high readership volume, surely some will be interested in trying out a bracket that cares about the fun new players must enjoy in order to get them to come back.



I would love to leverage the front page to help 29s make a comeback, and I regularly think about ways to do it. But consider the following.



XP-off brackets bifurcate into high population and low population brackets. High population brackets take an "anything goes" approach, where programming is law, regardless of complaining. High population brackets carry enough momentum that they don't need much leadership. Every high-pop bracket has its stars, its drama queens, its trolls, and a vast swath of players who show up for games when they feel like it.



Low population brackets, by contrast, establish and uphold standards of play. Players get to know each other by name, on sight. Players are much less anonymous. The livelihood of every low-pop bracket depends on the sustained efforts of three or four leaders in the community who invest time and energy to help organize and manage community interests in the forums and in game. Unlike the high-population brackets, low-population brackets depend on strong leadership.



29s lost that leadership.



29s need leaders like Daydra to inspire vision and direction. 29s need lieutenants like Morten to tirelessly break down barriers to entry and help players to participate in the day-to-day life of the bracket. 29s need ambassadors like Meed to promote the bracket and grow relationships with other brackets. 29s need those kinds of leaders again. But until enough 29s can depolarize and reach a better consensus about what they want for the bracket, no leader can step up and help the bracket move in any particular direction.



Loss of leadership killed off (earlier or later) all but one of the midbrackets this year. The one midbracket that remains, not by coincidence, currently enjoys the leadership of a couple of players who stepped up and sustained their time and effort to help guide the bracket. But it started with a core group of players who first and foremost, wanted games.



That's what 29s need right now. When enough of a core group of players decide they unconditionally (for the most part) want games, leaders will step up to help organize the effort, the bracket will revive, and the bracket will grow. Then comes the front-page TwinkInfo posts, the inspiring stories of tenacity and perseverance, the stolen Arena Master trinkets on the way to finally landing an AGM and the random satchel loot that seems anything but random.



To provide a better and more specific answer to your original question, then: For 29s to interest me, I would need to see a consensus of 10 players who believe in and would be happy with getting games that simply abide by midbracket standards: sitting players out to balance sides and balancing factions to get games. That's it. If ten players would be happy with relatively unconstrained games like that, I think the momentum would snowball and gather at least ten more players into having a reunion night.



Maybe, in the future, 29s can play without hunters. Maybe they can shelve grandfathered gear. But to get games right now means putting that off to the future. And short of bizarrely miraculous growth, the 4.4/5.0/pre-expansion patch will bring tremendous changes that will give the midbrackets a fresh start, assuming WoW doesn't slip past the event horizon of declining population between now and then.



Edit: fixed botched formatting from the copy-paste of this novella.
 
how can you play any of that trash



edit: im down to queue whenever people want to try for games



Dota 2 is fun as fuck, as is BF3 on PC.



Madden is well... Madden. Glorified roster updates every year for 60 dollars.
 
for me its just about time,im still adjusting to changes IRL but early in the year With or Without D3 i will be playin my 29s.
 
The problem with this bracket is Horde always falls up short.



For the bracket to thrive Horde needs to find leadership through guilds/players that can compete with the players in DetoX and MB.



Until then, the bracket at best will continue its short revivals ultimately resulting in the Horde calling it quits once again. Thus bringing us back to step 1.



Step your game up Horde. We're waiting, we've been waiting.



I'd love to get the chance to play Sergeant Shwinghshwong again.



<




Edit: Ryan, I have faith that you can jump start this bracket. *crosses fingers*
 
The problem with this bracket is Horde always falls up short.



For the bracket to thrive Horde needs to find leadership through guilds/players that can compete with the players in DetoX and MB.



Until then, the bracket at best will continue its short revivals ultimately resulting in the Horde calling it quits once again. Thus bringing us back to step 1.



Step your game up Horde. We're waiting, we've been waiting.



I'd love to get the chance to play Sergeant Shwinghshwong again.



<




Edit: Ryan, I have faith that you can jump start this bracket. *crosses fingers*



You're just asking for a Flamestorm in this thread with a post like this........it was far more than the horde but back ontopic.



Ive been contacted by a 29 of high importance and wants me to help bring the bracket back around again which i am interested in. It'll take some effort, i was one of the 29ers that revived the bracket last time, i'll gladly do it again.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-uSg9eRZCE[/media]



random video link be warned.......if you offend easily well dont watch this



edit:mad:megumi dont start a flamewar ignore it and move on.....we all know hypocrisy but his post is right in some aspects dont start a flame war, id perfer for kore not to come drop the hammer on this thread
 
Kore didn't drop the hammer when they ruined my other thread with their elitist bullcrap. It's well known that it takes immense skill to play a hunter.
 
The problem with this bracket is Horde always falls up short.



For the bracket to thrive Horde needs to find leadership through guilds/players that can compete with the players in DetoX and MB.



In the meantime, do any Detox or MB players plan on bolstering the Horde ranks? If so, that's awesome.



Pinning the problem on the lack of skill on the Horde side presumes that Horde are "those people over there", or something like that. There's no "over there". There's only "us", the 29 bracket. If we want to see games pick up again, players have what it takes to keep sides balanced and keep games interesting. Building a team or a guild and just expecting a bunch of people to show up and offer you competition may work in a high-population bracket, but not in a low-population bracket.



We need to build up both sides if we want worthwhile games.
 
The problem with this bracket is Horde always falls up short.



For the bracket to thrive Horde needs to find leadership through guilds/players that can compete with the players in DetoX and MB.



Until then, the bracket at best will continue its short revivals ultimately resulting in the Horde calling it quits once again. Thus bringing us back to step 1.





You and 9 other friends have varying degrees of skill at basketball. When you go down to the park, do you stack all the skilled players on one side? No. The skill is divided so that everyone can enjoy a game of PuG basketball. The same philosophy applies to the 29 bracket. In order to keep players interested and coming back, it is up to ALL of us to ensure that the skill is balanced on each side.
 
Kore didn't drop the hammer when they ruined my other thread with their elitist bullcrap. It's well known that it takes immense skill to play a hunter.



i mean, it takes immense skill to play anything besides a hunter at 29 right?
 
In the meantime, do any Detox or MB players plan on bolstering the Horde ranks? If so, that's awesome.



Pinning the problem on the lack of skill on the Horde side presumes that Horde are "those people over there", or something like that. There's no "over there". There's only "us", the 29 bracket. If we want to see games pick up again, players have what it takes to keep sides balanced and keep games interesting. Building a team or a guild and just expecting a bunch of people to show up and offer you competition may work in a high-population bracket, but not in a low-population bracket.



We need to build up both sides if we want worthwhile games.



there currently isn't any motivation to roll horde since 29s do not get games :[
 
You and 9 other friends have varying degrees of skill at basketball. When you go down to the park, do you stack all the skilled players on one side? No. The skill is divided so that everyone can enjoy a game of PuG basketball. The same philosophy applies to the 29 bracket. In order to keep players interested and coming back, it is up to ALL of us to ensure that the skill is balanced on each side.



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