10-19 The Official Twink Cup 2016 Thread

[marblea]

teams will just yolo dive without regard for trading because they'll get the first kill. the first blood rule is horrific and promotes less strategy than first cap. Even if teams dont yolo for kills, the stronger mid team will likely get first blood, the stronger mid team is not always the best team objectively and would lose if caps mattered.

 

[Zeiren]

it should be first team to capture a flag, not first team to land a kill.

 

[marblea]

"it'd be like if a basketball game went into overtime, and the team who gets the Jump Ball wins" - Trendy

 

[Mvq]

The commitee can't be playing WSG because they are fucking clueless

 

[Laurenti]

Use cap difference hello? It's a ctf tournament. Whoever made the argument of cap difference being an unfair tie breaker, good defensive teams in the world cup or other tournaments (greece winning the euros with very few goals scored as an example) still manage to do just fine with a low number of goals. It's just more incentive to push for a three cap instead of sitting on a 1-0 or 2-0 lead. Also rewards not getting capped on.

Head to head victory is first tie breaker between two teams, second tie breaker is cap difference (+/-), third breaker is flags capped. Fourth tie breaker can be sudden death to first cap (not first kill lol what) or seeding. I'd prefer first cap tbh, but the odds of this occurring are really low.

If three or more teams are tied, then cap difference is first tiebreaker, flags captured is second tiebreaker. Rank/tiebreaker is third.

Challonge even has tiebreaker options for this stuff. Literally Google round robin tiebreakers. It's not that hard.

 

[Mvq]

Use cap difference hello? It's a ctf tournament. Whoever made the argument of cap difference being an unfair tie breaker, good defensive teams in the world cup or other tournaments (greece winning the euros with very few goals scored as an example) still manage to do just fine with a low number of goals. It's just more incentive to push for a three cap instead of sitting on a 1-0 or 2-0 lead. Also rewards not getting capped on.

Head to head victory is first tie breaker between two teams, second tie breaker is cap difference (+/-), third breaker is flags capped. Fourth tie breaker can be sudden death to first cap (not first kill lol what) or seeding. I'd prefer first cap tbh, but the odds of this occurring are really low.

If three or more teams are tied, then cap difference is first tiebreaker, flags captured is second tiebreaker. Rank/tiebreaker is third.

Challonge even has tiebreaker options for this stuff. Literally Google round robin tiebreakers. It's not that hard.

This isn't soccer or basketball. There's specific strats in Warsong that'd be equalivant to having everyone sit Defense and push around as 10 players in Soccer. Stuff like that doesn't happen because the nature of Soccer and Basketball is to get as many goals as possible. It's an aggressive game in the same way Warsong would be if there was only 1 flag that could be held at a time. But that's not how it is.

 

[Fancy]

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Due to another team dropping out of this years Twink Cup there has been a further change to the schedule and also the FORMAT of the tournament. The reasons for this is because with only SIX teams participating in the Warsong section of the tournament the Double Elimination format no longer works due to a lack of teams. Instead, we will be using a Round Robin format with a Semi Finals and a Finals implemented as a custom.

CHANGES:

The platform that we will be using to organize and manage the competing teams in the Warsong section of the tournament will be Challonge(link).

The tournament will be using a Round Robin format(link).

Within this format, each team will be facing off against every other team participating in the tournament ONCE until the Semi Finals and the Finals.

Once all teams have faced each other ONCE the total wins and total loses will be calculated and the teams with the better win to loss ratios will be ranked higher on the scoreboard.

In the case of more than one team having the same amount of wins to losses, the way that the rankings on the leader board will be deciphered will be by referring back to when the teams in question fought against each other and whichever team emerged victorious in that series will be the team ranked in the higher position.

Once the leader board has been finalized there will be a Semi Finals and a Finals to follow. The two teams that are ranked in Second and Third position on the leader board will face off for a second time in a Best of FIVE series and the victor will go head to head in the finals against the team that is ranked FIRST on the leader board. The finals will be a Best of SEVEN with NO advantage to the team who is ranked first on the leader board.

Link to Challonge

General Rules

In the case of a tie game for a series the game will be replayed to give each team a second change of emerging victorious. In the event that there is TWO tied games in a row, to determine who will win the series will go into a THIRD game of SUDDEN DEATH. The rules of sudden death is, first team to score a kill on the enemy team, wins. In the case that this happens both teams will have to remain to play the same team composition as they have done in the previous game.

I really hope we change it to a real semi finals where we have 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 because even though it is a round robin, they are only 1 game against each team so I feel like it would be better to get that team 4 a chance, they may of been tilted or ddosed in one of the games dropping them to 4th place. And the added bonus of getting to watch more competitive games.

 

[Snack]

This isn't soccer or basketball. There's specific strats in Warsong that'd be equalivant to having everyone sit Defense and push around as 10 players in Soccer. Stuff like that doesn't happen because the nature of Soccer and Basketball is to get as many goals as possible. It's an aggressive game in the same way Warsong would be if there was only 1 flag that could be held at a time. But that's not how it is.

Soccer isn't about scoring as many goals as possible. It's about scoring more goals than your opponent. Excactly like WSG. You can score one fast goal, and turtle all game.

 

[Mvq]

Soccer isn't about scoring as many goals as possible. It's about scoring more goals than your opponent. Excactly like WSG. You can score one fast goal, and turtle all game.

Use cap difference hello? It's a ctf tournament. Whoever made the argument of cap difference being an unfair tie breaker, good defensive teams in the world cup or other tournaments (greece winning the euros with very few goals scored as an example) still manage to do just fine with a low number of goals. It's just more incentive to push for a three cap instead of sitting on a 1-0 or 2-0 lead. Also rewards not getting capped on.

Head to head victory is first tie breaker between two teams, second tie breaker is cap difference (+/-), third breaker is flags capped. Fourth tie breaker can be sudden death to first cap (not first kill lol what) or seeding. I'd prefer first cap tbh, but the odds of this occurring are really low.

If three or more teams are tied, then cap difference is first tiebreaker, flags captured is second tiebreaker. Rank/tiebreaker is third.

Challonge even has tiebreaker options for this stuff. Literally Google round robin tiebreakers. It's not that hard.

Let me word it in a better way.

In Basketball or Soccer, only 1 team can hold the objective at a time which makes both teams goal to be getting the objective either back or scoring it. Which makes the game offensive.

In Warsong, both teams can hold the objective at a time which makes both teams goal to be defending their objective and getting the enemies objective. Which makes the game a mix of Defensive and Offensive.

That is why you can't compare the 2 to each other. It's not remotely the same.

 

[Snack]

Let me word it in a better way.

In Basketball or Soccer, only 1 team can hold the objective at a time which makes both teams goal to be getting the objective either back or scoring it. Which makes the game offensive.

In Warsong, both teams can hold the objective at a time which makes both teams goal to be defending their objective and getting the enemies objective. Which makes the game a mix of Defensive and Offensive.

That is why you can't compare the 2 to each other. It's not remotely the same.

"the objective" in soccer is not the ball, just like "the objective" in WSG isn't the actual flag. It's getting the ball in the goal, and capping the flag. Soccer and WSG is comparable in many ways.

But that's not the point of our discussion, the point is to help the committee sort these rules.
As for this:

Do a Bo1 round robin

The same could happen again; each team wins once. And it is gonna take a lot of time to play out 3 more games.

 

[Mvq]

"the objective" in soccer is not the ball, just like "the objective" in WSG isn't the actual flag. It's getting the ball in the goal, and capping the flag. Soccer and WSG is comparable in many ways.

But that's not the point of our discussion, the point is to help the committee sort these rules.
As for this:

The same could happen again; each team wins once. And it is gonna take a lot of time to play out 3 more games.

Again, I worded it wrong. Let me try again.

You always have 3 objectives in Warsong, and 1 objective in Soccer / Basketball.

In Warsong you need to either 1) Cap the Flag, Defend your FC and kill EFC - 2) Cap the Flag, defend your FC and defend your Flag.
In Soccer / Basketball you need to either 1) get the ball into your possession - 2) Score.

Every objective in Soccer / Basketball is aggressive.
Warsong is a mix of aggressive and defensive.

 

[Laurenti]

You obviously haven't watched soccer

Again, I worded it wrong. Let me try again.

You always have 3 objectives in Warsong, and 1 objective in Soccer / Basketball.

In Warsong you need to either 1) Cap the Flag, Defend your FC and kill EFC - 2) Cap the Flag, defend your FC and defend your Flag.
In Soccer / Basketball you need to either 1) get the ball into your possession - 2) Score.

Every objective in Soccer / Basketball is aggressive.
Warsong is a mix of aggressive and defensive.

you ignorant egg. In soccer, a lesser team scores a goal against a major team. When this occurs, the lesser team "parks the bus". They are not offensive at all. Their entire purpose is to prevent the opponents from equalizing. However, goal difference (cap difference) is still widely used in soccer.
To put it in terms you would understand, it is the same concept as turtling on a 1-0 warsong game. It's exactly the same concept. Soccer is no more "offensive" or "aggressive" as wsg.
Ducking use cap difference

 

[Mvq]

You obviously haven't watched soccer

you ignorant egg. In soccer, a lesser team scores a goal against a major team. When this occurs, the lesser team "parks the bus". They are not offensive at all. Their entire purpose is to prevent the opponents from equalizing. However, goal difference (cap difference) is still widely used in soccer.
To put it in terms you would understand, it is the same concept as turtling on a 1-0 warsong game. It's exactly the same concept. Soccer is no more "offensive" or "aggressive" as wsg.
Ducking use cap difference

Didn't know that, thanks. I agree with you then.

 

[Laurenti]

All good. It's really the same concept. No idea how we convince the tc committee that this is logical af tho lmao.
All of the worlds soccer and hockey tournaments use it (wc, euros, both Olympics, etc). It is a much better tiebreaker than sudden death to first kill lol like what?

Didn't know that, thanks. I agree with you then.

 

[Snack]

lol...
@Conq @Blackout @lindenkron are you gonna listen to the community in this matter?

 

[anatomyx]

Ok I agree with everyone else, sudden death has to be first cap... first kill in sudden death has to be one of the worst rules I've ever seen

UPDATE:

In the 'Best of THREE' games that will be taking place it is required that all teams play ALL THREE matches regardless of the score after two games are played.

This is to push for as much consistency as possible with series times to further the accuracy of the schedule.

If a team has won the series why do a 3rd game? Who cares about the schedule, it just means you either have a break or push things a bit earlier.

Having a game 3 where the series is already decided is literally a waste of time, neither team will try because the outcome has already been determined.

I don't think I've ever seen a single tournament in my life in professional sports or gaming where a team wins the series early and then the two teams continue to play each other just for the hell of it, makes no sense whatsoever

I get that you guys are getting fucked around because of teams dropping but damn, these last minute changes clearly did not very have much thought put into them

 

[Snack]

@Blackout could you please elaborate on how you plan on deciding the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place if there are 3 or more teams with the same win/loss ratio, and they all have won against each other?

 

[Conq]

General Rules

In the case of a tie game for a series the game will be replayed to give each team a second change of emerging victorious. In the event that there is TWO tied games in a row, to determine who will win the series will go into a THIRD game of SUDDEN DEATH. The rules of sudden death is, first team to score a kill on the enemy team, wins. In the case that this happens both teams will have to remain to play the same team composition as they have done in the previous game.

Truth is that this is the nuclear option, and no one wants that. We want people to be scared of this so they try to avoid it at all costs, it is intentionally as random as possible, we do not want to have this situation occur, and obviously neither do the teams.

 

[Mvq]

Truth is that this is the nuclear option, and no one wants that. We want people to be scared of this so they try to avoid it at all costs, it is intentionally as random as possible, we do not want to have this situation occur, and obviously neither do the teams.

First cap encourages turtling.

 

[Mvq]

Truth is that this is the nuclear option, and no one wants that. We want people to be scared of this so they try to avoid it at all costs, it is intentionally as random as possible, we do not want to have this situation occur, and obviously neither do the teams.

I have this bad idea.
But I'm only using this bad idea because I want people to avoid it.
I know you guys have good ideas that'll solve this issue.
But I'd rather want people to avoid the situation entirely.
- Conq