5.0 Rogue testing thread

Slyddur

Slyddur

OG
With every new expansion comes new questions. What is the new BiS? Do you think _____ better than _____? Should I use _____ use or _____ to maximize damage/burst?

This thread is dedicated to testing such questions with the goal of producing the most knowledgeable 19 rogue population possible. To be clear it will be a thread of mechanics, damage, gear, and spells and the testing of them. Please take your general rogue game play questions/comments about such things as tactics, movement, overall strategy, etc elsewhere.

Will this be a definitive guide on exactly how to gear and a perfect breakdown of how you should be playing? No. Pvp is massive variety of different situations and never ending variables to account for and it's up to you to assess individual situations and use the information here more as guidelines rather than laws.

Anyone is more than welcome to ask and answer questions, but please provide clear and convincing evidence if you're answering or attempting to prove something. Please be patient and understanding if you feel that your questions aren't being answered in a timely manner as well. People play this game to enjoy themselves and aren't always abailable/in the mood to get on things right away.

I'll be updating the original post with as much relevant information as possible, so lets get started. Ask away.
 
Table of Contents
1. The effect of replacing +15 agility to weapon with pyrium weapon chain on spells
a. Hemo
b. Ambush+Scarlet Kris vs Shadowfang





1. The effect of replacing +15 agility to weapon with pyrium weapon chain on spells (ongoing)

Replacing +15 agility with pyrium weapon chain on the same weapon is an automatic loss of 2.71% crit/ 40 ap as Subtlety, 2.03% crit/37 ap as Combat, and 2.03% crit/30 ap as Assassination


a. Hemo
​

Slyddur said:
Just tested agi vs weapon chain with hemo. I tested it with both a Shadowfang main hand and a Sharpened Scarlet Kris both with 15 agi. I'll be doing ambush next followed by evis.

There are 50 Hemos in each test. Sorry about the small sample size, but i didn't want Idiote to die of boredom. All of this was done with poison being my only buff, starting out of stealth, no slice and dice, herb being used once per test immediately, and energy never reaching full.

Gear used:
Shadowcraft helm
WSG neck
shadowcraft shoulders
bandit cloak with stealth enchant
shadowcraft tunic with 4 stats
black wolf bracers with 9 stam enchant
foreman's gloves with 15 agi enchant
bandit belt
cobrahn's boots with minor speed enchant
ello's band
signet of argas
1 swift hand of justice
agm

All offhand weapons were Mass of McGowans with either 15 agi or weapon chain




Shadowfang with agi:
zDxoy.jpg



Shadowfang with weapon chain:
FUMTu.jpg



Scarlet Kris with agi:
47oPz.jpg




Scarlet Kris with weapon chain:
LsYU3.jpg






Hemo with agi only seems to make a 1 or 2 damage difference in your average and max hits despite the 30 extra ap over weapon chain (against a mail wearer at least).
Click to expand...



b. Ambush+Scarlet Kris vs Shadowfang
Slyddur said:
Just did ambush. I'll get to evis tomorrow.

No buffs and speced Subterfuge. Only 60 ambushes, sorry once again for the smallish sample. Keep in mind that I lose the 25% damage while stealthed from Nightstalker due to being Subterfuge.

Gear:
Shadowcraft helm
WSG neck
shadowcraft shoulders
bandit cloak with stealth enchant
tunic of westfall with 4 stats
black wolf bracers with 9 stam enchant
foreman's gloves with 15 agi enchant
bandit belt
cobrahn's boots with minor speed enchant
signet of argas x2
pvp trinket
agm

Offhand weapons were Mass of McGowans with either 15 agi or weapon chain once again.




Shadowfang with agi:
ZyW09.jpg




Shadowfang with weapon chain:
cTznh.jpg




Scarlet Kris with agi:
FdCS5.jpg




Scarlet Kris with weapon chain:
ystyj.jpg



Here's what we ended up with:
K=Scarlet Kris, S=Shadowfang, W=Weapon Chain, and A=Agility

HIT
average max min

k-a 246 261 231
k-w 238 252 223
s-a 228 242 209
s-w 217 233 200


CRIT
average max min

k-a 489 522 463
k-w 480 504 447
s-a 455 483 420
s-w 438 465 400

There's a noticeable difference in favor of agility over weapon chain, but no more than a 20 damage difference at most. Kris obviously outperformed Shadowfang as well with upwards of a 40+ damage difference between identically enchanted weapons. Nothing game breaking, but perhaps enough to make it worth swapping on for openers.


TL;DR for maximum damage on your ambushes use Scarlet Kris main hand with +15 agi. (with your +15 agi Shadowfang OH ideally)
Click to expand...



​
 
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I'm convinced this is bis:
This Information is from Twinking.net


Stained Shadowcraft Cap - Lucky Fishing Hat / Stained Shadowcraft Cap

Scout’s Medallion

Shadowfang Spaulders -Exceptional Stormshroud Shoulders / Shadowfang Spaulders

Tumultuous Cloak of the Bandit

Gloomshroud Armor - Stained Shadowcraft Tunic / Azure Scale Vest

Black Wolf Bracers

Shadowfang + 15 Agility – Shadowfang + Crusader or Icy or +15 Agility

Venerable Mass of Mcgowan+ 15 Agility – Shadowfang + 15 Agility or Icy / Venerable Mass of Mcgowan + Pyrium Weapon Chain

Gloves of the Fang

Vigorous Belt of the Bandit

Smelting Pants

Cobrahn’s Boots-Feet of the Lynx / Cobrahn’s Boots

Signet of Argas

Dread Pirate Ring

Inherited Insignia of the Horde / Alliance

Arena Grand Master - Switch out to Swift Hand of Justice when on CD

These are my thoughts on what is BiS. The items with the colors reflecting their rarities are BiS. Dread Pirate Ring gives more crit than dual Argas. The purple and italicized items are modifications I have made. They go in the order of Bis / Survivability set / Crit Set

But I don't use my version of "bis" (no gloom shroud). Plain and simple gear doesn't mean much any more. With that being said, a rogue's main sources of burst to bring down an efc is timing eviscerates correctly while heals are CCd. In my opinion, AP doesn't matter as much as crit does for a rogue trying to bring down an efc (typically with stacks) Which is why I suggest this heavy crit build.

I personally use my crit set when there are stacks (4+) otherwise I use my survivability set to ensure maximum kicks and spreading my DoTs.
 
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Damn, you US guys seem to have some kind of war about whose gear and spec and playstyle is the best.
Seems like everyone of you wants to be the HONORED inventor of the official MoP cookie cutter rogue build!
May the most popular tinke win!


(Not referring to OPs thread which is well researched and though out, just overall what I've read on these forums after patch)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mesikämmen said:
Damn, you US guys seem to have some kind of war about whose gear and spec and playstyle is the best.
Seems like everyone of you wants to be the HONORED inventor of the official MoP cookie cutter rogue build!
May the most popular tinke win!


(Not referring to OPs thread which is well researched and though out, just overall what I've read on these forums after patch)
Click to expand...
No just Curley, I believe slyddur and I agree on the gear for the most part. And I don't use cookie cutters, so I'm glad my cookie cutter guide is nearly impossibru to complete. Gear barely matters which is why I'm always telling everyone to play with whichever gear set they want (as long as there is some intelligence behind their choices)
 
Why isn't Tunic Of Westfall > BoA chest?
Not trying to argue, just interested.
 
Trilium said:
Why isn't Tunic Of Westfall > BoA chest?
Not trying to argue, just interested.
Click to expand...

I don't see why you'd get 5 agi to give up 5 stam and 6 hit. Not like we have the same mobility as before and can easily get away when being focused...
 
Sneaky said:
I don't see why you'd get 5 agi to give up 5 stam and 6 hit. Not like we have the same mobility as before and can easily get away when being focused...
Click to expand...

I would still be hit capped, and 5 agil>5 Stam

Im just wondering. With healing being so crazy at this time, I would say 5 agil > 5 stam.
 
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Sneaky said:
Special hit capped, yes. Not for whites.
Click to expand...

So the question is, 5 agil vs. how much further 6 hit rating gets you.
Someone get on it!
 
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