Subtlety Rogues On Le PTR

Mocha

Mocha

Legendary
I feel there has been a lack of chatter especially about rogues on the PTR. So heres a very rough and brief overview of what I have gained in a few days of playing a sub rogue.

So to start things off:
  • No thrown weapons
  • No Gogue
  • No Sprint
  • No Shadowstep
  • No Instant Poison
  • Gaining Slice And Dice
  • Gaining Hemo (Sub)
  • Gaining Deadly Poison
  • Meadow Ring of Eludng nerfed to 2 agility 2 dodge making Ring of Defense bis for dodge (if anyone cares)
  • Resist rings are now +4 ____ Resistance
  • 10 ap bracers are now 8 ap
  • 4/4 gloves are now 3/3

My rogue has about 54% dodge and 1650 hp unbuffed (no boa helm) 506 ap and 40 crit%

Hemo is 140% weapon damage (203%) with a dagger equipped (mainhand?) with a 24 second dot of 50% of the hemo hit strike.

At the moment on the PTR it is expected that Dagger + Nondagger should be bis for the increased hemo damage, however personally I have found that with a dagger equipped in offhand or even mainhand, hemo is not critting for as much as without a dagger....

Shadowfang+Wingblade was giving me about 140 noncrits 240-300 crits and Shadowfang + Dagger was giving me roughly 240-280 crits

Rogues retain the ability to Throw even without a thrown weapon and it is dirty... You can literally spam throw for 20s-50s every .5 seconds in addition to 100+ deadly poison procs...

Eviscerate with max combo points is critting for roughly 1,100. Keep in mind my rogue on PTR is missing BOA Helm and my 2nd Shadowfang.

I have only been on the PTR for a few days... can anyone let me know what you guys think of rogues atm and if my information is incorrect as a result of being tested for such a limited amount of time?

I feel that rogues will require MUCH more skill in MoP than Cata for sure. Playing my rogue gives me a feeling similar to playing a rogue in The Burning Crusade.

Although Rogues are losing a lot of abilities that are making them so useful today, I feel a good portion of rogues will avoid the challenge and play something else but rogues in my opinion will be anything but inviable. Perhaps a warrior would be the prime melee candidate in MoP (I have yet to test them) due to the dual charge/in combat charge. I can assure that rogues will bust out a LOT damage over both short periods of time and a long periods as well, making them very useful for non-kiting scenarios such as a Flag Room fight. I would expect rogues will not be the primary class for getting credit for the return in MoP (for those who actually thing that credit for a return matters, it does not) due to their loss of shadowstep and sprint.

I personally am getting the feeling that MoP will be fantastic for 19s and a rogue seems to be extremely balanced so far. I can't wait to hear more from you all!
 
I think combat rogue with double BOA mace is BIS. Sinister is based off of topend so the BOA mace finally gets it's day! Why would u care for a dot when we will have very little time on target. Max burst is what your looking for and combat will give you that. Also I am leaning towards going goblin if the current changes go out due to the fact that rogues have no gap closer and it would benefit us alot more than the silence in a game. Healers seem to be invincible. I was dueling a resto and boomkin and priest and they could heal upwards to 1500 crits, not to mention they don't go oom. MoP doesn't look promising at all for rogues hunters or warriors. Healers will be dominating the bracket. For example, when I pop evasion on my rogue I dodge every single attack from a hunter. It is rediculous and this game will go to trash. Melee will need to go worgen / goblin.
 
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Curley said:
I think combat rogue with double BOA mace is BIS. Sinister is based off of topend so the BOA mace finally gets it's day! Why would u care for a dot when we will have very little time on target. Max burst is what your looking for and combat will give you that. Also I am leaning towards going goblin if the current changes go out due to the fact that rogues have no gap closer and it would benefit us alot more than the silence in a game. Healers seem to be invincible. I was dueling a resto and boomkin and priest and they could heal upwards to 1500 crits, not to mention they don't go oom. MoP doesn't look promising at all for rogues hunters or warriors. Healers will be dominating the bracket. For example, when I pop evasion on my rogue I dodge every single attack from a hunter. It is rediculous and this game will go to trash. Melee will need to go worgen / goblin.
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MoP will create much higher skilled players in my opinion because we all know that heals are ridiculous which is why CC will be the only way to be effective as a 10 man. I have not tried out any spec other than sub ^.^ I'm expecting combat to be the spec of choice and I personally will probably be gearing more towards survivability than todays pure damage set.
 
Mocha said:
MoP will create much higher skilled players in my opinion because we all know that heals are ridiculous which is why CC will be the only way to be effective as a 10 man. I have not tried out any spec other than sub ^.^ I'm expecting combat to be the spec of choice and I personally will probably be gearing more towards survivability than todays pure damage set.
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Why survivability when you will have no time on target. Burst will be what brings down your target. Every other class besides warrior can get away from us.
 
I think that losing all of your mobility will outweigh any potential gains. You'll be like warriors are now, but you won't be able to global people to make up for it like they can.
 
Slyddur said:
I think that losing all of your mobility will outweigh any potential gains. You'll be like warriors are now, but you won't be able to global people to make up for it like they can.
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Thats why goblin and worgen will be best.
 
A sub par sprint replacement will not make up for nearly every other class having mobility and slows over you if they have half a brain.

and saying that MoP will increase the skill level of the bracket is a pretty empty statement. The overall skill level of the average player will always be on a slow climb and it has nothing to do with radical game changes. They just make it more apparent.
 
Slyddur said:
A sub par sprint replacement will not make up for nearly every other class having mobility and slows over you if they have half a brain.

and saying that MoP will increase the skill level of the bracket is a pretty empty statement. The overall skill level of the average player will always be on a slow climb and it has nothing to do with radical game changes. They just make it more apparent.
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Yes... but there is a lack of coordinated CC in the bracket and in order to be successful in a premade: instead of hitting a /assist Pizza macro to burst down a target people will actually have to learn to focus CC instead of simply bursting down a target. That is the point I was trying to make.
 
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Mocha said:
Yes... but there is a lack of CC in the bracket and in order to be successful in a premade: instead of hitting a /assist Pizza macro to burst down a target people will actually have to learn to focus CC instead of simply bursting down a target. That is the point I was trying to make.
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I agree that's its use has diminished in premades over the last year or two, but that's only because they have turned into caster cleave mirrors where you're not even in range for CC 90% of the time. The 10% of the time where you get close range for a return it is still used to great effect and is what gets the you the returns and separates the good players/guilds from the mediocre.

We're getting a bit off topic though. This thread is about the blow rogues are going to take in the expansion.
 
I feel like right now the op(ness) in the bracket is centered upon the dps (hunters, rogues, mages). sure you could say priests and pallys are op but in MoP I am very excited to see the power shift to the healing side of things (rdruids/shams). who knows what this will bring for premade strategy! psyched!
 
Drugs said:
I feel like right now the op(ness) in the bracket is centered upon the dps (hunters, rogues, mages). sure you could say priests and pallys are op but in MoP I am very excited to see the power shift to the healing side of things (rdruids/shams). who knows what this will bring for premade strategy! psyched!
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6 healer drain team mirrors that end 0-0 (lol)


on the topic of rogues, the only role that i see them filling is the continuing one of being a sap bot and the occasion addition to burst (though it will be much harder and more situational without step to get on target in time)
 
did evasion get a nerf to? it says "50 % increase dodge chance" now and doesnt include the "25% chance for ranged to miss" to
 
IMO double fang still BIS. The proc and 7 AP makes up for the 2 topend. Also double argas, tunic of westfall, and gloves of the fang are the new BiS.
 
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Assasination spec with dagger OH and shadowfang MH is BiS. It gives you the highest topend and extra 20 energy. The energy regen from combat is only 2 more every second which isn't worth it at all. The only downside of this is the OH dmg. In addition, assasination has a higher chance of deadly posion procs.

Credit to Altelite EU
 
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