MoP rogues helpless vs hunters?

[Frostymax]

So i was recently reading over the new talents and abilities in MoP and was greatly disturbed to find that rgues are losing acces to ALL their gapclosing abilities at lvl 20. no longer will we have shadowstep or even sprint. so how are we to deal with hunters that disengage? especially since disengage has some powerfull buffs from talents including +60% movespeed for 4 seconds after you disengage. gouge those disengages perhaps, well that does work, but rogues will no longer have acces to gouge at lvl 20 either. so how can a rogue possible kill a hunter 1v1 without ANY gapcloser? even if you trinket the slow/scatter shot you can still never catch them after they disengage. even tho they will most likely be crippled they can kill u long b4 u could get to them.
hemo will be very handy as backstab can be anoyying to set up and sinister strike is pathetic as a subtlety rogue but i still see rogues as being helpless vs kiters(frostmages will probably wreck them too but fire is going to be the best mage spec in MoP imo).
if any of you have any suggestions as to how a rogue can cope with the loss of so much his utility and outplay kiters, please tell me.

also with hunters having both scatter and siliencing shot, healers are going to have to be even more careful.
i am looking forward to warriors no longer being a complete joke to ranged classes and actually becoming a large threat(double incombat charge ftw) but it saddens me that rogues are taking such a big hit to their mobility.

 

[Rhaellia]

WSG and AB are both team games. Team work.

Don't try and 1v1 everything that moves. Wanna 1v1 then duel people but if you're in BGs don't be THAT DPS who is always getting their ass saved by the healer who goes out of their way to save it ;D

Btw, rogues that do solo players need to pick their fights and a fully geared hunter with 1600 hp is not a fight you pick as a rogue solo.

Also pretty sure silencing shot can only be 'spec'd" into at level 30 with the new system so... .__.'

 

[TuskyTim]

I wouldn't worry to much yet if i were you. Beta is beta, wich means it wont be unlikely that alot will still change. Also blizzard wanted to get pvp balanced at all levels and although they might not always keep their word id suggest you wait till near release before visualizing duel scenarios.

 

[Stamm]

MoP or cata, it doesn't matter, rogues RARELY solo hunters, and even then, the hunter has to be bad for a rogue to win.

 

[mrdoobry]

Go Goblin for the Rocket Jump! Or make sure you carry hundreds of "bottled sprint" aka Swiftness Potion.

That is if you can even get it as F2P (I have very little knowledge regarding this bracket).

 

[Mrcer]

You will most likely end up going assassination, and you will want to use Subterfuge. Basically, you have 3 seconds to kill the hunter before you are out of stealth. You're going to basically be a warrior now. You get 1 chance to kill someone before you get kited.

Ambush + Mutilate and then you gotta get an Eviscerate before you either get scattered shot or before the hunter disengages.

 

[TuskyTim]

Go Goblin for the Rocket Jump! Or make sure you carry hundreds of "bottled sprint" aka Swiftness Potion.

That is if you can even get it as F2P (I have very little knowledge regarding this bracket).

Swiftness potion can be gotten on a f2p, so if you really want to beat hunters in duels you can indeed farm your ass off to do so. Rolling a goblin however is kinda hard since you need a cataclysm acount to do so. Just start farming pots for the next expansion rogues

 

[Rhaellia]

MoP or cata, it doesn't matter, rogues RARELY solo hunters, and even then, the hunter has to be bad for a rogue to win.

Currently subtly rogues should be able to solo bad hunters easily.

While gouge, shadow step, sprint, and a thrown with crippling should make good hunters quite possible.

 

[Shft]

Just fyi warriors are still going to suck, most likely even worse than they are now. Anyone who has played enough warrior in this bracket knows to pick their fights, and since warriors will be losing their only snare, the only thing warriors will gain is a second chance to global a mage or something. If as a warrior you aren't getting the charge, you aren't being aware enough; if you don't think you can get one, then run away.

 

[TuskyTim]

Just fyi warriors are still going to suck, most likely even worse than they are now. Anyone who has played enough warrior in this bracket knows to pick their fights, and since warriors will be losing their only snare, the only thing warriors will gain is a second chance to global a mage or something. If as a warrior you aren't getting the charge, you aren't being aware enough; if you don't think you can get one, then run away.

Getting 2 in-combat charges seems better then things used to be though.

 

[DubbsBegins]

i wouldnt say useless. with NE rogues, you can get 4 ambushes if you take the correct talent

 

[Stamm]

The warrior changes will be bad for most warriors, but i can easily end anything below 1300 hp not wearing mail with 2 charge assaults. I'm actually considering the stun talent, is it 3 sec additional to the 1 sec stun or just changing the stun to a flat 3 sec?

 

[TuskyTim]

The warrior changes will be bad for most warriors, but i can easily end anything below 1300 hp not wearing mail with 2 charge assaults. I'm actually considering the stun talent, is it 3 sec additional to the 1 sec stun or just changing the stun to a flat 3 sec?

Most likely replace, wich makes me fear that taking another talent will make you lose the 1 second stun warrios used to have.

 

[Rhaellia]

Getting 2 in-combat charges seems better then things used to be though.

Where does it say in combat charge?

All I see is charge CD reduction, extra charge before it goes on CD, and a stun when you charge. None of which come close to piercing howl, 50% movement slow. However, 3 secs is long enough to tear into someone pretty good I think.

 

[verh]

Where does it say in combat charge?

All I see is charge CD reduction, extra charge before it goes on CD, and a stun when you charge. None of which come close to piercing howl, 50% movement slow. However, 3 secs is long enough to tear into someone pretty good I think.

Silly itchy, the tooltip of charge of charge no longer says in combat, which hopefully means it doesn't need to be used out of combat.

 

[Klinda]

The warrior changes will be bad for most warriors, but i can easily end anything below 1300 hp not wearing mail with 2 charge assaults. I'm actually considering the stun talent, is it 3 sec additional to the 1 sec stun or just changing the stun to a flat 3 sec?

I would respectfully disagree, getting an extra charge off before cd is pretty nice, and being able to CHARGE IN COMBAT again is going to make warriors pretty viable again and if you know what your doing than it can be assumed you should be able to take down a decently geared hunter or any class for that matter
and @rhae since the talent for being able to charge in combat is being removed it is generally assumed that charge will be usable in combat regardless of tier 1 choice

 

[Brov]

Going off topic, but if you get the mount opener as a warrior you will basically always kill ur target. Your ToT w/ the double charge combined w/ your insane dmg = pew pew pew. The trick would be to have two charges during the fight, not use the first one to get onto the target.

 

[Mrcer]

Where does it say in combat charge?

All I see is charge CD reduction, extra charge before it goes on CD, and a stun when you charge. None of which come close to piercing howl, 50% movement slow. However, 3 secs is long enough to tear into someone pretty good I think.

Thats the thing, It doesn't say that there is an in-combat charge, but the charge also doesn't say that Charge is only usable outside of combat. Also if you check all the specs, abilities, and talent points, none of them mention anything that sounds like this: "Your charge is now usable in combat". We have to assume that charge is going to be usable in combat now.

 

[shanker]

So i was recently reading over the new talents and abilities in MoP and was greatly disturbed to find that rgues are losing acces to ALL their gapclosing abilities at lvl 20. no longer will we have shadowstep or even sprint. so how are we to deal with hunters that disengage? especially since disengage has some powerfull buffs from talents including +60% movespeed for 4 seconds after you disengage. gouge those disengages perhaps, well that does work, but rogues will no longer have acces to gouge at lvl 20 either. so how can a rogue possible kill a hunter 1v1 without ANY gapcloser? even if you trinket the slow/scatter shot you can still never catch them after they disengage. even tho they will most likely be crippled they can kill u long b4 u could get to them.
hemo will be very handy as backstab can be anoyying to set up and sinister strike is pathetic as a subtlety rogue but i still see rogues as being helpless vs kiters(frostmages will probably wreck them too but fire is going to be the best mage spec in MoP imo).
if any of you have any suggestions as to how a rogue can cope with the loss of so much his utility and outplay kiters, please tell me.

also with hunters having both scatter and siliencing shot, healers are going to have to be even more careful.
i am looking forward to warriors no longer being a complete joke to ranged classes and actually becoming a large threat(double incombat charge ftw) but it saddens me that rogues are taking such a big hit to their mobility.

rogues losing

gouge
sprint
backstab
improved poison
shadowstep
ambush 30% damage bonus after a SS gone too

gaining
slice and dice
deadly poison

reroll

 

[Soifon]

gaining
slice and dice
deadly poison

Assassination rogues will be more powerful than Subtlety rogues now. 50% chance to apply deadly poison, 40% attack speed increase, 30% increased energy regen. I will personally be taking Shadow Focus over Subterfuge. It will be very difficult for rogues to be >useful< in BGs but they certainly won't be underpowered. Similar to how ret paladins are now except without a stun. I know ret paladins carry hard in arenas.

Hunters are losing their deadzone, so being in melee range means nothing to them anymore. Being Marksman also gives hunters Careful Aim (60% chance to crit with aimed/steady shot on targets above 90% health) which is basically 80-90% crit chance if stats aren't dramatically changed. The talents for F2P hunters comes down to 15% health regen or a 3 second snare. Posthaste is not all that useful unless you're using disengage offensively. Because they are losing the ability to melee (which is offset by removing the dead zone but whatever) blizzard is also buffing ranged weapon damage. I would not be surprised if hunters boil down to, disengage with Narrow Escape, cast aimed shot, finish with auto shot.

Even if no one rerolls a hunter, MoP will destroy F2P battlegrounds. Back peddlers will win 9/10 fights simply because there is no deadzone anymore. Even if you assume MoP will make them even more retarded and they just sit there casting steady shot at you, they still have 70% reduced pushback on it.

I know this is the wrong thread for it, but i am much more interested in how arcane mages are going to be able to do massive AoE damage with the new arcane charges.