World First F2P 20 Lock to
- Thread starter Deadvulcano
- Start date
Tinkerton
Legend
I agree that an easy way to make things harder is just get rid of the addons, would make the game in a sense more casual friendly, too (note: casual =/= bad) and easier to develop.
Not entirely in line with the second part though, The Shattering removed the Red/Orange Quests from Azeroth for example, and dropping the minimum level of all outdoor Quests by 5-6 levels would add an optional harder mode than 'piss easy' to the levelling part of the game.
BTW: perhaps mogging is fun to do for you? Of course Forsaken are about the only ones the hideous Cloth-caster looms look anywhere good on but still.
ThaCarter
Legend
UBRS wasn't easy in t3. If you were WEARING t3, then of course, by the nature of that raiding, it was easy. I remember friends that were not raiding in the same guild I was that couldn't down anything from MC to AQ20 consistently. Often I'd end up going along to help them since we stopped running that content outside of carries for gold and it would be insane how behind players were. This has been true all along until Wrath. Even the biggest idiots could clear Naxx25 faster and with less wipes than they could clear Sunwell ( a fucking 70 raid) during the same time period (to make it clear, I don't mean Sunwell at 70, I mean they would clear Naxx25, go try Sunwell for fun and rage quit when they couldn't down Felmyst before the phase 2 FLT).
OP
OP
Deadvulcano
Legend
True, shattering removed Red/Orange system. This, imo, is a bad system anyways. The content should not be harder because the level and scaling puts the player at a disadvantage, but rather more difficult in the way that raids are more difficult. I could solo far more content if the scaling disadvantage wasn't present.
I haven't spent any time trying to mog because cosmetics don't matter to me. Though I did post a pic in a mog thread were 24s/p2ps were posting. The pic was t3 mage gear which is, so far, the only armor tier that bads never had a chance to wear.
I said and meant after t3. As in ppl that are wearing t3 go into UBRS for the "lawls."
ThaCarter bring up a good point that I have neglected so far. Because the bar is lowered sooner now people get gear without "earning" it. And thus they are not given time to learn. They then clear content because their power level diminishes the value of "skill". This is working as intended to let "casuals" get farther. The new raid finder is obvious evidence for this.
However, gearing doesn't completely remove the need to know the encounter. These "biggest idiots" you speak of probably had (and probably continue to have) no clue about Sunwell. One 85 DK can solo LK. That doesn't mean a group of bads can even hope to beat him if they go into the fight without any knowledge of the encounter.
I submit that these casuals/bads/etc are either actually unable to grow and learn by playing WoW, or have just not spent enough time (i.e., they really are "noobs").
In summation: There is a slight tendency towards ease as WoW has picked up more and more users. However, the adaptive capabilities of humans should not be ignored in the topic.
C O T U S
Legend
people have gotten way better at this game since it came out. the progression has been pretty steady. it's easily verifiable by watching old pvp movies that came out at different points in the game's development (or even pve movies, they're out there too). seriously, people were fucking bad in vanilla, all of us included
Mialo
The Architect.
ThaCarter
Legend
To be fair, I don't think people got "better" in the sense of higher skill. In that sense one would say that a random bio major is "better" than Marie Curie because they understand far more about physiology, anatomy and DDC. Rather, as more and more people understand that backpeddling, clicking etc are bad and it becomes a common place thing to learn as soon as you start the game, the bar that we consider "good" is just higher. I mean, even those old PvP vids show why those people are good. It was a big deal when people found focus macroes, CC, ignite munching and rolling etc. I'd still submit that at the end of the day my clearing Naxx was a bigger deal than clearing LK-H, or even to some extent KJ. All three were satisfying kills, but certain things made the former much harder than the latter two (namely coordinating 40 people is very difficult when 5 will DC, server lag, having to farm everything instead of buying them off the AH etc). At the end of the day, most people still really bad (as can be seen by the amount of Firelords you STILL don't see [to explain how bad this is, 3 months into s9 we got wrecked by a group of 10 Firelords from Pie Chart in 2800+ rateds]).
As I think Deadvulcano correctly points out, people like things to be easy. Most people that play WoW come from competitive work to try and relax. If WoW becomes a job for them (a second one at that) it's not something they want to do. I'm in postgrad and I'm sure most of you are in college, high school etc which means that you don't need WoW to relax and thus can let your competitive streak take over. That's not to say some people are not just competitive by nature (I'm competitive to the point that it's not a good trait and I'm sure even at 40+ I'm still going to be competitive), it just means some people are not.
As I think Deadvulcano correctly points out, people like things to be easy. Most people that play WoW come from competitive work to try and relax. If WoW becomes a job for them (a second one at that) it's not something they want to do. I'm in postgrad and I'm sure most of you are in college, high school etc which means that you don't need WoW to relax and thus can let your competitive streak take over. That's not to say some people are not just competitive by nature (I'm competitive to the point that it's not a good trait and I'm sure even at 40+ I'm still going to be competitive), it just means some people are not.
Geist
Legend
I agree, but i've heard nearly the same arguments 6 years ago in vanilla, when the leveling/questing/gearing process wasnt nerfed into ridiculousness.
You had the same top% clearing content, 99% of the server couldnt.
But the stuff up to the endgame was real spectrum from easy to reasonable difficult, due to multiple factors. (mostly scaling of player gear easily available at a certain level and player abilities)
That balance has been lost for some time
ThaCarter
Legend
The middle wasn't though. As noted before, BWL/AQ remained out of the reach of many, many people well into Naxx. Naxx remained out of reach for most people well into BC. Think about the newest expansions. BT was still within reach for many, although it did remain somewhat difficult. Sunwell remained difficult a little into Wrath but became easier around Ulduar or ToGC tier. BC was a good expansion. Look at Wrath. Everything was clearable by ICC, ICC was clearable by... well... ICC. I remember pugging 10/12 H on my newly geared feral alt. Now look at Cata. Things are puggable in the same period.