youakim
Guest
Why does horde lose AB 90% of the time when WSG is close to a 50% pug win ratio?
OP
OP
youakim
Guest
That doesn't explain why horde is so much worse :/
Kearbear
Legend
Honestly I have no idea.
A guess would be that it's almost a feedback loop, people queue and see how inept the horde side is at AB so the good players who like to win don't even bother with it, and so you see less and less competence in the games. Another part of it is has to do with how much ally hunters dominate, and being able to get more eyepatch toting hunts in an AB than you can in a wsg (some of them seem to queue for it exclusively).
But I have seen the win ratio improving lately. Maybe it was just a bracket phase we'll grow out of.
A guess would be that it's almost a feedback loop, people queue and see how inept the horde side is at AB so the good players who like to win don't even bother with it, and so you see less and less competence in the games. Another part of it is has to do with how much ally hunters dominate, and being able to get more eyepatch toting hunts in an AB than you can in a wsg (some of them seem to queue for it exclusively).
But I have seen the win ratio improving lately. Maybe it was just a bracket phase we'll grow out of.
Yoganro
Legend
I always see horde under 1000 hp (I think that's the minimum you need to have.) when I tell them that they need to get geared from dungeons they usually say they are here to get gear (heirlooms) so I think most horde players do twinking backwards. so we will end up loosing a lot more until the f2p horde characters actually spend more time In dungeons to get blue BiS gear first
Aradiel
Legend
Typical AB is alliance storm through LM and then take farm and BS. Horde take GM and then get stuck there. Occasionally horde take ST or farm back, and even more occasionally horde aren't complete trash and actually manage to hold more than two bases.
It's the same reason that alliance always take docks and hangar while horde always take WS in IC. It's just become a habit.
Sure, some horde could decide to go LM alone, but they'd get stomped by the alliance surge. Next time, they decide to follow the Zerg, which ends predictably.
It's the same reason that alliance always take docks and hangar while horde always take WS in IC. It's just become a habit.
Sure, some horde could decide to go LM alone, but they'd get stomped by the alliance surge. Next time, they decide to follow the Zerg, which ends predictably.
Mialo
The Architect.
Or you play an AP AB Premade and you just ROFLSTOMP LM and get a clear win because they don't know what to do next. Habits, you know...
Spooch
Legend
I don't think most players really understand how the resource mechanic works.
We don't realize that a node needs to be fully capped before it start accruing points, so we run off when we hear the trumpet thinking our job is done. We don't know that the longer a node is held the faster it gives points, so we allow undefended nodes to rack up the score when a quick ninja would make a huge difference. The most puzzling of all is that we'll roll 5 deep to a node defended by 2, bog down trying to kill them both, and wipe to rezzers without ever touching the flag.
Add that confusion to the general firepower imbalance and the wide open fields of fire, and we have the usual condition of "their dummies can beat up our dummies."
C O T U S
Legend
there is a gear and level disparity between the makeup of horde AB teams and horde WSG teams. for whatever reason, more better geared horde players and more 24s queue for (or choose to enter queues for) warsong gulch than they do for AB. the corresponding alliance player makeup remains more or less the same.
if you don't believe me, you can use one of those mods that records data for all BGs and do some data collection to check. but i guarantee that this is why.
if you don't believe me, you can use one of those mods that records data for all BGs and do some data collection to check. but i guarantee that this is why.
OP
OP
youakim
Guest
@spooch But see, that doesn't explain why horde is so much worse than alli at AB, and not wsg
edit: Cotus, that makes a lot of sense. But why are the undergeared hordies in ab?
edit: Cotus, that makes a lot of sense. But why are the undergeared hordies in ab?
Spooch
Legend
@V Cotus explained my point better than me. If we assume the Dummy Factor to be equal on both sides in our bracket, and that the objectives are a bit more complicated in AB, they'll tend to brute-force their way to more wins in AB simply by pewpewing than they do in WSG, where a few good players can change a game.
That's this Dummy's opinion, anyway.
That's this Dummy's opinion, anyway.
Zorglub
Legend
Also its much easier to carry your team in WSG then is in AB.
You need like 2-3 skilled folks to carry a random pug WSG while you need much more folks in AB to do so.
Also if random are clueless in WSG u can spam chat by "Go kill EFC" or "Help FC" while in AB you need shit load of spams in order to finish - "Defend node on flag, not near it so noone can ninja cap it", "Report incoming with number of ppl approaching", "At least 1 person stay and defend a node"....
Its much easier to go and nuke 1 target in WSG (since most folks don't realize its retarded to nuke EFC while healer is spam healing him/her) then to Defend, cap, report, etc in AB.
Last few AB's I did with my druid were just painfull. Even though we had 13+ AP ppl in it, we barely won cause of the fact most of folks didn't know what to do.
And yea, you have 7+ hunters in random AB on ally side which you rarely encounter in WSG.
You need like 2-3 skilled folks to carry a random pug WSG while you need much more folks in AB to do so.
Also if random are clueless in WSG u can spam chat by "Go kill EFC" or "Help FC" while in AB you need shit load of spams in order to finish - "Defend node on flag, not near it so noone can ninja cap it", "Report incoming with number of ppl approaching", "At least 1 person stay and defend a node"....
Its much easier to go and nuke 1 target in WSG (since most folks don't realize its retarded to nuke EFC while healer is spam healing him/her) then to Defend, cap, report, etc in AB.
Last few AB's I did with my druid were just painfull. Even though we had 13+ AP ppl in it, we barely won cause of the fact most of folks didn't know what to do.
And yea, you have 7+ hunters in random AB on ally side which you rarely encounter in WSG.
rsq
Legend
This is worrisome. We need to start screening our pugmades a little bit better.
Also, to reiterate: the playerbase for both horde and alliance are relatively the same. This question is not about how the games are lost but why have certain patterns been established and become hard to break?
Aradiel
Legend
I don't think you know how it works. Let me explain. The node is considered in dispute until it is fully capped ~1min after it is first assaulted. You won't gather any resources until this happens. It doesn't matter how long it has been capped after that. You're either gathering resources, or you're not. Resources are gathered faster the more nodes you have under your control.
From WoWWiki:
Resources accumulate at the rates shown in the table below.
| Nodes Captured | Resources Per Tick | Tick Length (sec) | Resources Per sec |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 10 | 12 | 0.8 |
| 2 | 10 | 9 | 1.1 |
| 3 | 10 | 6 | 1.7 |
| 4 | 10 | 3 | 3.3 |
| 5 | 30 | 1 | 30.0 |
Spooch
Legend
Thanks for setting that straight for me.
It supports the part of my theory where us Hordies are a little slow on the uptake, in general.
