Whitemend/Spellfire and PvP/Heroic TBC Gems in SL - Discussion

[Blackberryy]

The Whitemend and Spellfire set really isn't as powerful as people might think it to be. Sure its amazing for damage as a glass cannon setup, but the loss of stamina and secondaries is really apparent the moment anyone starts focusing you. Even then the damage is not insanely high. It can one shot players with a high burst ability like chaos bolt, but often players will pop a defensive after the first time to mitigate at least some of the damage. You don't have haste so you can fairly easily be interrupted. Then your dead in the water as they will almost always turn their focus to you, unless you are able to flee(druid). It really is a defeat the enemy or be defeated set up, which makes it somewhat balanced unless there is a whole team of them. This doesn't even mention the time and cost to get the Spellfire set. The materials are not the easiest to get and when I had to get them were fairly expensive on the AH, it took some time. Then you have to farm for the Whitemend patterns(which has a decently low droprate for a pattern), and have the expensive/slow to farm for materials for each piece as well. If they disable the set, which I do not think they should do at all, they have to increase the rate of pattern drop and reduce the amount of materials needed, or increase the amount dropped, or both otherwise its not worth it at all. Its barely worth it right now at its current cost even with the set bonus(in my opinion).

Actually the whitemend set and other tbc patterns thanks to 8.3 was made like an 80% drop chance. Also whitemend and spellfire is easily obtainable if you have a legendary Lisa to help you on bleedinghollow.

 

[Rejuvenizer]

Hey all, so I've done quite a bit of testing on live for the 70 bracket and these are my results.

Shaman Notes
Lightning Bolt Damage - 553
Lightning Bolt Damage With 74 spell power - 613
Lightning Bolt Damage With 159 spell power - 683

.81081 spell power = 1 dmg additional to lightning bolt

Conclusion : Spell power scaling is linear

MW monk Notes:

Whitemend/Spellfire-667 Intel(780.4 spell power), 16% crit, 3% haste, 14% vers
RSK:2,987 Crit (calculated to a 1989 non crit)

Without Whitemend/Spellfire- Stats unknown (didnt record before he logged off, but I can imagine its similar in intel and secondaries)
RSK: 1019(calculated to a 1,528.5 crit)

Warlock Notes:

Without Whitemend/Spellfire-Base spell power- 655 SP, 21% crit, 11% haste, 14.2% vers
Chaos bolt - 2478

Without Whitemend/Spellfire Chaos Bolt with 91(756 total) SP on use- 2882

Whitemend/Spellfire - 655 intel (765 SP), 22.3% crit, 11% haste, 12% vers
Chaos Bolt - 4848

Conclusion: 9 sp difference = 1966 dmg difference on a chaos bolt????

Mage Notes:

Without Whitemend/Spellfire: 712 intel (764 SP), 40% crit, 8% haste, 11.5% vers
Fireblast: 805 (critical)
Pyroblast: 1385 (critical)
Frostbolt: 372

Whitemend/Spellfire - 732 intel (905 SP), 37% crit, 5.5% haste, 9% vers
Fireblast: 913 (critical)
Pyroblast: 1047 (x1.5 = 1570 critical)
Frostbolt: 431

Conclusion: Whitemend/Spellfire seems to be working as intended for the mage class

Druid

Balance Without Whitemend/Spellfire: 644 intel
Wrath: 364
Lunar Strike: 465
Starsurge: 1258

Resto-
Ferocious Bite: 1610
Shred-488


Whitemend/Spellfire - 618 intel (723 SP)
Balance-
Wrath: 395
Lunar Strike: 503
Starsurge: 1558

Resto-
Ferocious Bite: 2995
Shred:1055


Overall prediction but not confirmed since I have not tested on every class: Whitemend/Spellfire seem disproportionally busted for the big 3 classes which seem to have the most overall benefit, MW monk, Rdruid, Warlock. Do I have any idea why? No... but the spell power gained does not seem to follow the same linear equation as the other classes who equip the set.

 

[Goesid]

Actually the whitemend set and other tbc patterns thanks to 8.3 was made like an 80% drop chance. Also whitemend and spellfire is easily obtainable if you have a legendary Lisa to help you on bleedinghollow.

Nah the patterns are 5% tops.

 

[Blackberryy]

Nah the patterns are 5% tops.

No lol, I get it almost every run for gems. And it drops for other people often as well, half of the new mages got the pattern to drop the first run of botanica. The drop tables have changed so much, patterns that used to be .001% and still are on wow head are dropping in droves in tbc zones, as long as you are the profession it requires that is.

 

[Goesid]

No lol, I get it almost every run for gems. And it drops for other people often as well, half of the new mages got the pattern to drop the first run of botanica. The drop tables have changed so much, patterns that used to be .001% and still are on wow head are dropping in droves in tbc zones, as long as you are the profession it requires that is.

Nah.

 

[Blackberryy]

Nah.

The pattern even drops on normal, gl with the pattern, I know you’ll do great!

 

[Goesid]

The pattern even drops on normal, gl with the pattern, I know you’ll do great!

Well I havent farmed it for myself but when I did herald farming a guy playing cloth had to get his and it took him about 50 runs for each.

So because of this little chat I went back and checked a char that I farmed enchanting mats and mogs for in those dungeons and I have the botanica recipe with only ~15 runs but no Arcatraz recipe with 25 runs.

Tldr: nah

 

[Blackberryy]

Well I havent farmed it for myself but when I did herald farming a guy playing cloth had to get his and it took him about 50 runs for each.

So because of this little chat I went back and checked a char that I farmed enchanting mats and mogs for in those dungeons and I have the botanica recipe with only ~15 runs but no Arcatraz recipe with 25 runs.

Tldr: nah

Do these characters have tailoring?
Might even need Outland tailoring specifically

 

[Goesid]

Do these characters have tailoring?
Might even need Outland tailoring specifically

Obviously, otherwise they wouldnt have the recipes?

 

[Blackberryy]

Obviously, otherwise they wouldnt have the recipes?

You can never be too certain, as I said earlier good luck!

 

[Goesid]

You can never be too certain, as I said earlier good luck!

Its just a 5% drop it will drop if I farm it.

 

[Cleatuss]

got mine on 3rd run

 

[thakahn]

I farmed for both of these recipes in the past few days, I was max Outland tailoring and the Botanica pattern (hood) took me 37 runs, the Arcatraz pattern (legs) required 14 runs. Both farmed on normal mode.
[doublepost=1598399239,1598398559][/doublepost]I didn't play it much as I thought I had somehow broke the game, but I did set up a demo warlock for korraks revenge using the whitemend and spellfire sets, among other carefully selected pieces. To this day I'm still not quite sure what happened, but I was phenomanly strong with the gear set. My felguard in particular was auto attacking for ~30% of a player's health. Blade storm would kill entire groups of players within 2-3 seconds. After a long game, it was not unusual to have several hundred killing blows with 1-2 deaths. I literally gave my felguard a target and he would slaughter them.

Admittedly, I also used LVL 60 flasks, wizard oils to stack intellect. But I still suspect something extraordinary was happening with those sets with regards to intellect / pet scaling

 

[Rejuvenizer]

I farmed for both of these recipes in the past few days, I was max Outland tailoring and the Botanica pattern (hood) took me 37 runs, the Arcatraz pattern (legs) required 14 runs. Both farmed on normal mode.
[doublepost=1598399239,1598398559][/doublepost]I didn't play it much as I thought I had somehow broke the game, but I did set up a demo warlock for korraks revenge using the whitemend and spellfire sets, among other carefully selected pieces. To this day I'm still not quite sure what happened, but I was phenomanly strong with the gear set. My felguard in particular was auto attacking for ~30% of a player's health. Blade storm would kill entire groups of players within 2-3 seconds. After a long game, it was not unusual to have several hundred killing blows with 1-2 deaths. I literally gave my felguard a target and he would slaughter them.

Admittedly, I also used LVL 60 flasks, wizard oils to stack intellect. But I still suspect something extraordinary was happening with those sets with regards to intellect / pet scaling

Yup! Well, if you refer to my numbers above you can see that there is in fact some hidden scaling with the set for 3 classes. No idea why dmg increase is 90-100% for some classes but it is.... so your warlock was experiencing that bug in game.

 

[Cleatuss]

my 73 MW monk hits 11-12k one shots in bgs. its broken

 

[Desodelete]

As I said earlier, this set discouraged me from twinking above 69. I did make a 79 warrior but didn't enjoy it that much. I saw the busted damage from classes using it and was like no thank you. The occasional spell reflect was funny though.

Its so strong that people using that stuff in 89 I heard. I'm not sure about 99. Hope this set dies but knowing Blizzard they will let it release busted and then disable it after it gets abused for 2+ weeks.

It does seem to benefit certain classes more for some unknown reason. I don't have any personal knowledge since I refused to use the set. Sure it would be fun to make a 79 destro and chaos bolt one-shot dumpster people but would feel lame as well.

 

[Blackberryy]

As I said earlier, this set discouraged me from twinking above 69. I did make a 79 warrior but didn't enjoy it that much. I saw the busted damage from classes using it and was like no thank you. The occasional spell reflect was funny though.

Its so strong that people using that stuff in 89 I heard. I'm not sure about 99. Hope this set dies but knowing Blizzard they will let it release busted and then disable it after it gets abused for 2+ weeks.

It does seem to benefit certain classes more for some unknown reason. I don't have any personal knowledge since I refused to use the set. Sure it would be fun to make a 79 destro and chaos bolt one-shot dumpster people but would feel lame as well.

It’s a lot to handle sure, and can 1 shot, but it can still be beaten and locked down (pun intended) not a lot of haste and an early multiplier on haste dr makes the cast time long enough to avoid with relative ease. Most all the classes have burst potential similar to this that don’t even have access to the set.

 

[Rejuvenizer]

Yea so, the main point of this thread was to talk about the sets implications in SL lol. Not so much live. Although I would agree with Berry's quote above, I also think locks aren't the issue on live. But, you've heard my opinion so i won't reiterate.

Speaking about the set on ptr, how much testing have you guys done? In the testing that I've done, the scaling is still off for those 3 classes, and it's much worse haha. In fact its so much worse right now for 27s, 30s, 35s, 39s on ptr that if you're not one of these 3 classes, or a direct counter to these classes, you may not stand a chance in the upcoming twink meta. For reference, I am hitting about 1.6k crit Templars on my 32 twink Paladin, my chaos bolt on my 32 warlock on ptr with cds up is hitting for about a 5.4k. (Our health pools are about 4k at 32-35). Similarly to my pet in demo 100-0ing someone in like 5 seconds without me pressing a button. Rdruid's ferocious bite and mw monk's RSK is also a 80%-0 1 shot ability non crit with no cast time and unavoidable. For the game's sake, I most certainly hope this changes in the future.

 

[Blackberryy]

Yea so, the main point of this thread was to talk about the sets implications in SL lol. Not so much live. Although I would agree with Berry's quote above, I also think locks aren't the issue on live. But, you've heard my opinion so i won't reiterate.

Speaking about the set on ptr, how much testing have you guys done? In the testing that I've done, the scaling is still off for those 3 classes, and it's much worse haha. In fact its so much worse right now for 27s, 30s, 35s, 39s on ptr that if you're not one of these 3 classes, or a direct counter to these classes, you may not stand a chance in the upcoming twink meta. For reference, I am hitting about 1.6k crit Templars on my 32 twink Paladin, my chaos bolt on my 32 warlock on ptr with cds up is hitting for about a 5.4k. (Our health pools are about 4k at 32-35). Similarly to my pet in demo 100-0ing someone in like 5 seconds without me pressing a button. Rdruid's ferocious bite and mw monk's RSK is also a 80%-0 1 shot ability non crit with no cast time and unavoidable. For the game's sake, I most certainly hope this changes in the future.

I agree with you for sure, everything I have seen leans in an even worse direction and specially because of the loss of many required ability’s to avoid this kind of incoming damage. On my 27 warlock with whitemend and spellfire I was chaos bolting 3k-3.2k and average hp on a 27 with non bfa gear (I would imagine is unintentional for us to have) is 2.5-3k hp, so a 1 shot. Although I must say that all classes damage seem really good as well. The worst I have seen is with destro locks or arcane mage you don’t even have to really cast anything, destro you run shadowburn for 4 instant casts that can hit 700-1500 per and arcane mage just keeps ticking arcane missles doing upwards of 800-1k damage. It’s going to really be like the wild west in most cases, hence why I would imagine the 40-49 bracket will probably see a huge surge in twink activity due to it having most of your whole toolkit

 

[Req]

There's definitely something wonky with spellfire + whitemend for some classes. Testing around on my 39 rdruid on the ptr, here's some numbers against the training dummy. (Non-crits with regular int gear, no trinket procs) ~200 shreds and ~1k ferocious bites. (Non-crits with spellfire + whitemend, no trinket procs) ~500 shreds and ~2.3k ferocious bites. Never checked the numbers in duels against other 39s, but never had to because the bites just mowed people down.

Having done some duels against a 39 mw monk, they also just handed out casual 4.5k rsk one shots. If shadowlands 39s ever do get some activity, these two specs will probably have to wear some different gear, because damn.