Whats the deal with fiery?

[quote name='toxic']

Every pve rogue knows they want 2 slow hands for dps. PvP only reason you'd want a fast offhand is to pushback casters. Hmm. Pushback is almost noneexistant anymore, especially in lowerbrackets.

There's no PvE at 19 yet. And the 80 combat rogues I see use a slow MH fast OH.
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There's no PvE at 19 yet. And the 80 combat rogues I see use a slow MH fast OH.
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Yeah I believe 80 rogues want a fast OH for applying poisons and Shiv. And even with an ability like mutilate, the energy regen from a faster weapon (due to talents) will allow more DPS in a raid (still speaking about 80's of course).
 
no poisons

no talents



the only thing the OH speed is affecting at 19 is a possible fiery chant which benefits from a slow weapon.
 
I still don't see why you people are completely ignoring LS.



LS and fiery have the same proc rate. The only difference is that with LS, you're sacrificing 10 damage for 30 more health each time it procs. Seems like a good sacrifice to me...
 
I've heard many times that they're both 8. But it doesn't seem like anyone is too sure about that, just look at Basil's post on the first page where he states that fiery has a 7 ppm.
 
IAT says they're the same ppm in his Lifestealing spreadsheet, and he seems to be the one we've all been trusting for the past week.
 
Fisherman said:
I still don't see why you people are completely ignoring LS.



LS and fiery have the same proc rate. The only difference is that with LS, you're sacrificing 10 damage for 30 more health each time it procs. Seems like a good sacrifice to me...
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Like others said, LS is better for Pugs and duels. LS procs can be overhealing, or cause your healer to overheal. In either case, the proc is wasted.



In theory, the extra damage from fiery can be wasted, too, if all it does is reduce your opponent's overhealing (i.e. healer was dropping a heal for 250 when his partner was 200 below full health, your fiery procs taking him to 240 below and the heal lands still bumping him up to full). But the concept of "overdamage" just doesn't sound right.



I pug for the most part on my rogue, so I go with lifestealing.



I think the whole LS vs. Fiery debate is somewhat like the CB vs. WB for offhand. There are some advantages to either side and their really isn't a wrong answer. Icy would be wrong.
 
WSG said:
Like others said, LS is better for Pugs and duels. LS procs can be overhealing, or cause your healer to overheal. In either case, the proc is wasted.



In theory, the extra damage from fiery can be wasted, too, if all it does is reduce your opponent's overhealing (i.e. healer was dropping a heal for 250 when his partner was 200 below full health, your fiery procs taking him to 240 below and the heal lands still bumping him up to full). But the concept of "overdamage" just doesn't sound right.



I pug for the most part on my rogue, so I go with lifestealing.



I think the whole LS vs. Fiery debate is somewhat like the CB vs. WB for offhand. There are some advantages to either side and their really isn't a wrong answer. Icy would be wrong.
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Very well put
 
fiery is not what it used to be....it's better now

fiery got buffed since WOLTK release....at least that's what i was told by a lifer 19 rogues, that used sport duel +15agi. we know Blizz does changes that never make the patch notes.



recently, to see +15agi being dropped in the last 4 months and players going to fiery, amazes me. i also ask rogues i have seen over my play period of 2 years: "why fiery?" and overall they say it does more damage now.



i started playing 2 years ago i built my econo 19 twink rogue with duel fiery that was all i could afford. all the advice was go duel +15agi. all the pro build sheets were duel +15agi. i NEVER.......NEVER have seen fiery recommendations like the ones rolling now. nor have i ever seen the praise for the use of fiery for twinking until now. all the talk of 19 rogues was SF/CB/TB/WB/AB, etc with +15agi.



when i built a 29 rogue, i went fiery till i could afford +15, at that time, once i had dual +15 he seemed to do better. but now it appears blizz has done some secret changes on fiery and may have to look at that bracket too.



in fact, in the past prior to WOTLK on RUIN BG you would run into self-designated pro rogues who would flame players with: fiery, LS, crusader, +wpn dmg, etc. with comments of LOL, noobness, etc.
 
The reason many people dropped Fiery since 3.1 is because of the substantial decrease in HP since 3.1, faster bursting down with Fiery. The amount of damage has not been changed, and I'm very sure that the PPM remains at 6. I'd love it if someone would test the PPM from 1000 white hits on a dummy of his level.
 
shanker said:
fiery got buffed since WOLTK release....at least that's what i was told by a lifer 19 rogues, that used sport duel +15agi. we know Blizz does changes that never make the patch notes.



recently, to see +15agi being dropped in the last 4 months and players going to fiery, amazes me. i also ask rogues i have seen over my play period of 2 years: "why fiery?" and overall they say it does more damage now.



i started playing 2 years ago i built my econo 19 twink rogue with duel fiery that was all i could afford. all the advice was go duel +15agi. all the pro build sheets were duel +15agi. i NEVER.......NEVER have seen fiery recommendations like the ones rolling now. nor have i ever seen the praise for the use of fiery for twinking until now. all the talk of 19 rogues was SF/CB/TB/WB/AB, etc with +15agi.



when i built a 29 rogue, i went fiery till i could afford +15, at that time, once i had dual +15 he seemed to do better. but now it appears blizz has done some secret changes on fiery and may have to look at that bracket too.



in fact, in the past prior to WOTLK on RUIN BG you would run into self-designated pro rogues who would flame players with: fiery, LS, crusader, +wpn dmg, etc. with comments of LOL, noobness, etc.
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You haven't read the right builds then. I've always been a fan of having loads of gear and I've been using fiery since the dawn of time. Fiery was really helpful vs high hp targets and I also used it vs priests. 15 agi was a good enough if you PUGed and couldn't afford more enchants, but most rogues would probably have some weapons with fiery, even back then.
 
anyone know how fiery's crit chance works? is it based of player's crit chance or what?
 
Grunge said:
anyone know how fiery's crit chance works? is it based of player's crit chance or what?
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I can't say I know, but It's not off of player crit chance.
 
Fisherman said:
My guess is that it's based on the player's spell crit%. I'm not sure though.
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I highly doubt this as well, because that wouldn't exactly make any sense.
 
iaccidentallytwink said:
The reason many people dropped Fiery since 3.1 is because of the substantial decrease in HP since 3.1, faster bursting down with Fiery. The amount of damage has not been changed, and I'm very sure that the PPM remains at 6. I'd love it if someone would test the PPM from 1000 white hits on a dummy of his level.
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the switch to fiery started way prior to 3.1, infact i started seeing rogues going duel fiery 2 months into WOTLK. i haven't seen players on RUIN dropping fiery, from what i have seen is them dropping +15 AGI.



faster bursting down with Fiery if that was the case this should have always been the choice enchant. whether 19s have 1000hp or 3000hp.
 
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