What should be the power differential between twink/non twink?

Hornfull

Veteran
Pretty much the title. I've wondered about this for some time and have been through a number of iterations of twinks' power level.
There's a number of reasons why people like to twink, and being more powerful is one of them.
How much stronger would you like to see twinks be?
Using the 20-29 bracket, twinks seem to be, on average around 30-40% stronger which is almost impossible to overcome as a lvler/ftp.
 
Hornfull said:
Pretty much the title. I've wondered about this for some time and have been through a number of iterations of twinks' power level.
There's a number of reasons why people like to twink, and being more powerful is one of them.
How much stronger would you like to see twinks be?
Using the 20-29 bracket, twinks seem to be, on average around 30-40% stronger which is almost impossible to overcome as a lvler/ftp.
Click to expand...
Definately depends on the bracket, but yes, I’d agree a 29 twink is roughly 30-50% more powerful. In higher level brackets you find that it becomes a bit less through like 60-90 I find at these levelers people do more dungeons and have mid tier enchants most of the time. Of course your question wildly Varys based on the skill and time investment difference between the twink and leveler.
 
Depends on spec. The smallest power difference between a vet and a f2p is probably resto shaman, the biggest power difference being something like warlock? Enhance sham? Any spec that's already semi weak as vet, you can bet is far far worse as f2p.

The power difference in levelers also depends on what kind of leveler they are. If they're leveling twinks, there's a good chance (depending on spec and level) that the mid 20s leveling twink has more power than the vet. A good example of this would be a leveling twink warrior. A level 25-29 ish warrior with enchants is way scarier than a vet fury warrior.

But back to the vet vs f2p thing. The power difference isn't big enough to make f2ps completely unplayable. If you want to play a f2p, do it, just make sure it's a viable spec that isn't like fire mage or enhancement shaman.
 
My question is more about whether it should be 30-50% or it should be a lot closer. And while the higher brackets might be closer they aren't as viable due to xp off being split.
 
To clarify, it sounds like you're referring specifically to retail BFA WoW twinks in the 20-29 bracket.

In general, you will find the majority of twinks are referred to as "Veterans".

Compared to a leveler, I would say that vets are approx 15-30% stronger than a semi-skilled decently geared leveler. Obviously depending on class selection and skill. Many vets are generally more skilled than levelers due to time spent pvping at this level bracket.

In short: the true power gap comes from:
1) class/spec
2) skill
3) gear
 
I know where the power gaps come from, but I wanted to know what the community think the contribution of gear should be. I would also place gear>skill in the 20-29 bracket tbh
 
Hornfull said:
My question is more about whether it should be 30-50% or it should be a lot closer. And while the higher brackets might be closer they aren't as viable due to xp off being split.
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Like I said, it all depends. There are too many factors to pin point one blanket term percentile.
 
Hornfull said:
What makes my message a troll?
Click to expand...
The part where you want to complain about how powerful twinks are but because you dont want to sound like you're complaining, you frame it as innocently asking for the communities opinion about where they think twinks should be in relation to levelers.

Just come up in here full force and be like "yo! Vets are stupid and way too powerful compared to their F2P counterparts!" and like half this forum would agree with you.
 
would like if it was like the 19 bracket in TBC. Where full blue BiS items actually means you got some rare quality items and becomes as strong as if you wore x16 rare BiS items. Not to even the low PvP out by adding heirloom items or this item-level scaling when entering a battleground.

The power should show in the commitment of getting BiS items and enchants. If we are talking about percentage, then a BiS twink should be 60% - 70% more OP than the average nontwink. Getting absolute BiS should be a challenge however. And it's up to the non-twinks to play smart. Gank the twink, dispel it's Arena Grand Master, kite it etc. Play by it's weakness.

Many non-twinks in vanilla are actually better than most twinks when it comes to gameplay. I can tell that they've more PvP experience in their class just by watching their rotation and such. If they also got half twink gear they would probably 1 vs 1 the average twink.
 
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Hornfull said:
Pretty much the title. I've wondered about this for some time and have been through a number of iterations of twinks' power level.
There's a number of reasons why people like to twink, and being more powerful is one of them.
How much stronger would you like to see twinks be?
Using the 20-29 bracket, twinks seem to be, on average around 30-40% stronger which is almost impossible to overcome as a lvler/ftp.
Click to expand...
I’d be fine with a small gap in power or even a 100% gap. You go into pvp to kill another player, if you aren't willing to gear accordingly you do not belong. This is why adding experience to bgs was a bad idea, they created a bunch of zombies just queing through pvp with no interest in actually participating, and then crying because someone put more time and effort into pvp and went for consumables and gear to do the best they could in the respective bracket.
 
Chops said:
The part where you want to complain about how powerful twinks are but because you dont want to sound like you're complaining, you frame it as innocently asking for the communities opinion about where they think twinks should be in relation to levelers.

Just come up in here full force and be like "yo! Vets are stupid and way too powerful compared to their F2P counterparts!" and like half this forum would agree with you.
Click to expand...
Except that's not what I'm doing? I could go vet anytime I want. I know some people twink because they want that massive power increase. I also know other want it for a finite gear chase, no resets every expansion and so forth. This would be geared for such people.
 
Hornfull said:
Except that's not what I'm doing? I could go vet anytime I want. I know some people twink because they want that massive power increase. I also know other want it for a finite gear chase, no resets every expansion and so forth. This would be geared for such people.
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commendable 2 go pure f2p
but put that 2 the test
& u will soon realize the totally non cancer 3 druid comps run literal circles around f2ps
sum of us used 2 b bright eyed f2p optimists
but then we realized we wanna attempt 2 compete
not just live in the shadows of street cred
 
Ideally and to me, Twinks should have a damage / healing throughput 20 - 35% higher than characters w/o enchants or optimized stats.

Realistically, in-game I'd say that this difference is about 35 - 50%, according to the class and spec.
 
Hornfull said:
How much stronger would you like to see twinks be?
Using the 20-29 bracket, twinks seem to be, on average around 30-40% stronger which is almost impossible to overcome as a lvler/ftp.
Click to expand...

I think you have the wrong mindset when asking this question. It should not be about overcoming a twink on a 1 v 1 fight. Battlegrounds are a group fight based around objectives. Accordingly, it's about executing on the flag play by having enough players in your group to defeat the opposition. It's about bringing power (numbers, gear, skill), CC, heals, dispels to overcome your opposition. Untwinked toons can certainly contribute to that.

From a general gearing question in terms of the power level of an average twink to an average leveler, I don't have the philosophical answer of what should be an appropriate spread in terms of power level.
 
Charax said:
It should not be about overcoming a twink on a 1 v 1 fight.
Click to expand...

Of course not. But if a twink has 50% more power, 2 of them would kinda mean they have one more person in the fight just due to gear (I'm aware that's not how the math works, but the extra pressure/burst is big). Let's be real here, the side with the most twinks, in random bgs, is the side that wins 80% of the time.
 
30-40% more base stats and 10-15% more 2ndary stats (across the board) with BIS and enchants compared to that of a person in full heirlooms and dungeon gear in the rest of slots.
 
here's how I can tell nub to pro using the gear as a whole in different brackets.

______________________________________________________

has poor, common, and/or no gear in slots.

has uncommon and common/poor slots.

has all uncommon slots filled.

has uncommon and heirloom slots. <- this is where the 1st boundary line is (owning heirlooms).

has all heirloom slots filled.

has rare and heirloom slots. <- this is where the 2nd boundary line is (more rares than heirlooms).

has all rare slots filled.

has rare and epic slots. <- this is where the last boundary line is (solidifies the individual in the bracket).

has all epic slots filled.
 
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