What opener should you use against what class? {Rogue}

[Scobee]

I

I have been playing the 70 bracket as a rogue for 2-3 years now and I notice a lot of 70 rogues not knowing how to open or having little idea on how to open against certain classes. Go look at most of them, they just ambush and evis then vanish and repeat till the target dies.
This may get the kill sometimes but its not guaranteed and chances are you will waste a lot of valuable cooldowns doing this.

Now on with the guide, I only play as subletly so if you are assassination these openers probably wont work well for you.

Lets focus on this, All of those Warriors, Death Knights, Mages, Warlocks, Hunters, are sometimes hard to down and some of those classes can counter rogues, Like for example a mage could ice block and blink away from us wasting our time, Hunter can disengage and then we have to vanish because there is no way in hell you will be able to out dps a hunter when he is far away from you. The opener for these classes right here is a guaranteed kill unless they are very well geared with a lot of stamina, and in that case repeat the open.... First off, rogues you underestimate the power of your bleeds at 70! Try this opener, Premeditation, Garrote, Cheap Shot, Rupture, and Vanish and watch the dots do the trick, if you want when they are at 5k-8k health open with a cheap shot, ambush, evis for a quicker kill and to assure your victory. You may have to open like this twice to kill some classes like death knights with 25k health. I can assure you this open has won me a lot of arenas and could've cost me a lot of arenas if other rogues used it on me.


Lets talk about how to kill a rogue, there is many different ways you can counter a rogue but this way rarely fails for me. You should both be in stealth and lets say you get seen first in stealth and he saps you, you will wait for him to either damage you or if you see him in stealth while you are sapped and you will trinket + blind and stealth then open on him with Premeditation, Garrote, Cheap Shot, Rupture, and then Vanish and the rogue should vanish but don't worry theres no way he can survive that open and then its over, If you see him first then just do that same open.

How to kill a priest or healer! This is a full-proof open that no priest or healer has ever been able to counter. You need to have Glyph of Blind for this to work.
The way this opener works is, they either die on the first open or waste cds surviving it and then get re-opened after the cds are gone.
First you want to look at the priests buffs, time it right, and sap when shield is about half way up and sap him no more than twice that way his buffs run out, once you are ready and his shield is down open with, Premeditation, Garrote, Ambush, Kidney shot (You have to be quick on that kidney shot) while he is kidney'd you spam backstab and do as much damage as you can possible, once kidney is out you blind, and stealth as in stop attacking once you blind and wait for combat to leave and stealth, as soon as blind is up sap, and sap again so you get kidney shots cooldown back, and open again the same way. I can down priests with 25k health with this method, If they trinket the kidney or blind you vanish wait for kidney in stealth then open again you don't have to have blind to kill them once they use all there cds witch this open is designed to do.

How to kill them pesky prot pallys, you can use the priests open or you can do this other opener that I seem to like better for pallys,
Open with the dot opener but don't use premeditation, so it would just be, garrote, cheap shot, rupture, vanish and watch him when he starts to cast flash of light you open on him with, premeditation, garrote, ambush, kidney shot, backstab to death, blind after kidney is up, stealth, sap at the end of blind, open again with premed, garrote, ambush, kidney, backstab to death and good game, (A lot of the times you don't even have to blind since the dots get them from around 18k down to 14k)

Okay that was my way to kill any class at 70 as a rogue, if there is any class you want me to go into more depth on how to beat just ask and I will tell you what to do to beat them the quickest way and most effective way and if you have an opener for a certain class that you want other people to hear reply and i'll quote it into this so other people can see another way to beat something but with these opens I have been able to conquer my way up to 2.2k with no problems at all. Also if you need help with my opens because I didn't explain them well enough I can help you personally just pm me asking for my realid and i'll add ya and try to help you out ​

 

[Dreams]

First of all, getting into the mindset that you need to use a specific "opener" every time is not a good thing. It's something you see a lot with PvE'ers kinda tunnel-visioning on doing one specific thing as a result of having trouble with some of the very basics like movement and binds. Duels (and pvp in general) is very reactions based. But maybe you already know that and just wanted to provide some very basic guidelines for people who are absolutely clueless at the class.

But even then, I think there are a few problems with this guide.

Many of these openers are assuming the guy you're dueling has down syndrome. You make it look like you don't have any experience dueling good players at any class.
Also it's really stupid how pretty much all your ideas for openers involves automatically vanishing afterwards.
On top of that it's really lazy putting warriors, death knights, mages, locks and hunters in one category. You don't actually give any accurate description on how to beat any of these classes. But then again I suppose this guide is only meant to "teach you the opener"? Not how to actually then win the duel.

Oh well. In its current state I'd say 2/10. I think you have to do a lot of work and research on this guide before you can call it complete. Long way to go imo. :x

Also you should ask to get it moved to the guide section.

 

[demonmage]

where is the 90 degree garrote cheap shot opener on mages

 

[dogform]

good troll, 7/10

 

[Scobee]

First of all, getting into the mindset that you need to use a specific "opener" every time is not a good thing. It's something you see a lot with PvE'ers kinda tunnel-visioning on doing one specific thing as a result of having trouble with some of the very basics like movement and binds. Duels (and pvp in general) is very reactions based. But maybe you already know that and just wanted to provide some very basic guidelines for people who are absolutely clueless at the class.

But even then, I think there are a few problems with this guide.

Many of these openers are assuming the guy you're dueling has down syndrome. You make it look like you don't have any experience dueling good players at any class.
Also it's really stupid how pretty much all your ideas for openers involves automatically vanishing afterwards.
On top of that it's really lazy putting warriors, death knights, mages, locks and hunters in one category. You don't actually give any accurate description on how to beat any of these classes. But then again I suppose this guide is only meant to "teach you the opener"? Not how to actually then win the duel.

Oh well. In its current state I'd say 2/10. I think you have to do a lot of work and research on this guide before you can call it complete. Long way to go imo. :x

Also you should ask to get it moved to the guide section.

I understand what you mean but trust me I don't use these specific openers all the time, They are just openers that I use to win duels and I never lose any duels so I decided to try it in arenas, and trust me dotting people especially rogues is the best way to win not many rogues understand this but a 5 combo rupture can kill someone with 18k health with ease. Now I know the way I typed it does make it seem like who I face sucks ass by not explaining what to do when the counter, and honestly I don't think you would take the time to type every possible explanation to what you do if they trinket here, bubble there, fear you, You cant read online on what to do when something does this to you because you have no clue what they are going to do. These openers are assuming that each class doesn't trinket or pop defensives and if they do you can just vanish especially on the one open on how to beat a priest, its meant for them to waist all there defensives. Also each class that I listed for the dot and vanish opener are all really the same, just some may cause you to have to do the open twice so I didn't really want to go into depth on each class since they all are really the same they just each have there own cd that you have to watch out for or they will counter you, now about the vanishes after most of the openers, I only see one opener of mine that does that and that's the dot open and the reason you vanish is so that they don't dot you and you don't have to do shit but watch them die. Also I didn't make this really as a guide, made it to help out those ambush spamming 70 rogues who cant seem to figure out how to beat them annoying prot pallys and priests, It would also be helpful if you guys would start posting replys saying a good way you have found to beat a class I wanted this thread to be more of a discussion for rogues learning the class and being able to down people with no problem, I also know that the opens I listed above I have taught around 6-7 rogues on my realm them and now they down my 18k priest with ease, I'm not saying my opener is the best but I havn't seen a better way to kill a priest, so that's kinda what I want to hear from people there openers that they use on priests, prot pallys, hunters, rogues, death knights, druids, etc just so us rogues can look at all the possibilities.

 

[Dreams]

Can't say I read that entire wall, but I do agree with

honestly I don't think you would take the time to type every possible explanation to what you do ( . . . ) You cant read online on what to do when something does this to you because you have no clue what they are going to do.

For this reason I think a "guide" like this is actually completely pointless.

By telling someone who is clueless about pvp to do specific things on how to beat a certain class in a duel, you accomplish two things:

1. They will probably win more duels against that class, but won't win any duels against someone who's really good at their class if they didn't already.
2. You will have lessened their motivation to actually improve.

In my opinion, the best way to teach someone who's clueless about pvp/their class (I won't even go into the fact that I don't think pvp is about learning your class anymore) is to teach them the importance of learning the basics, and then letting them work out themselves how to use their abilities.
And by the basics I don't mean class specific basics, I mean the basics of pvp in general.

 

[Scobee]

Can't say I read that entire wall, but I do agree with

For this reason I think a "guide" like this is actually completely pointless.

By telling someone who is clueless about pvp to do specific things on how to beat a certain class in a duel, you accomplish two things:

1. They will probably win more duels against that class, but won't win any duels against someone who's really good at their class if they didn't already.
2. You will have lessened their motivation to actually improve.

In my opinion, the best way to teach someone who's clueless about pvp/their class (I won't even go into the fact that I don't think pvp is about learning your class anymore) is to teach them the importance of learning the basics, and then letting them work out themselves how to use their abilities.
And by the basics I don't mean class specific basics, I mean the basics of pvp in general.

Yeah I agree with what you are saying but these opens are the basics to beating the classes, each class has a counter to your open and will counter it if they are good players, but the more you use these openers the more you know what to do when they counter you, as in counter the counter. Also, I can't agree on "1. They will probably win more duels against that class, but won't win any duels against someone who's really good at their class if they didn't already." Because these openers when I learned them I sucked dick at rogue and these openers didn't even work for me, couldn't even beat a priest in looms, then I had motivation to figure them out, (saw my rogue friend doing it and facerolling everything) he would explain it too me on what exactly to do and I would do it but I would always get countered and be clueless what to do next, but I kept trying the opener and eventually I started to understand it knowing what to do if they trinket my kidney, if they trinket my garrote, trinket my blind, and it got a lot easier and now any class at 70 fears me, and I was hoping other rogues would try to do the same with these opens because once you understand what to do in every scenario you will be pretty much unstoppable.