Whale Shark!

[Lunsh]

Oliks, you've just stepped your boundary. Who the hell do you think you are? thinking you can judge us after what we've done to the community?

Using Legacy as a stereotype shows exactly why what you think doesn't matter.

When you say almost, you mean a couple as that's what 2 is.. but i don't think you know that.

Just because you paid for a "Donator" symbol doesn't mean you get the right to say what you want, when you want, but of course us being the "sad low lives", it really doesn't matter what we have to think really does it.

Let's get onto the matter of trolling, do you really think that the conversation between Magners and Splosion is trolling? No, it's a conflict of personal specilisation, one wants to go one way and they think it's right, one of them wants to try something out because they think it's fun, You've done a real good job of proving to everyone how smart you really are.

but, tarnishing a name that Aelobin created, Aelobin is pretty much Legacy, Legacy is Aelobin. To tarnish Legacy as a whole is pretty much saying to everyone, ignore Aelobin. I don't even care what you've done to the community, Aelobin has put so much effort into making the 80-85 community hospitable, friendly and even fun. Where were you when Cross realms were released to try and get the community together and turn that into nights of fun as a BRACKET. You really think you've done enough by posting a list of achievements to dignify those responses? If so, you're wrong. It's a helpful thing to do but thinking that it gives you rights to do whatever you want on these forums it does not, i'm sure even Neslya agrees who hasn't always been on the best terms with Legacy. So i suggest you start writing that huge post explaining how you're "sorry" and retract these statements.

Good Day.

P.S. You made my shreddies get soggy by making me post to this thread, HOW DARE YOU.

 

[Oliks]

@Lunsh, Xipe & Aeolobin

Yes you are correct, I did step over my boundaries, and I am truly sorry, i just got mad at Zmirnøff, and i got carried away..
And i apologize..
The thing i ment with my post got expressed myself wrong, all i ment is that I hate these kinds of threads..
But again, I did get carried away..
And I am sorry..

Wont apologize to Zmirnøff though..

I payed after i had made that comment though, so that didnt have any influence on it.

--
What did you mean with

P.S. You made my shreddies get soggy by making me post to this thread, HOW DARE YOU.

Edit:
The thing with Magnerz, was all of the things he did.. Like spam several of my threads.

Edit again:
When you guys were busy with raiding, i was working on balancing the bracket PVP wise, by gathering as many alliances as possible on real ID, and do premades many times each day.. To help the people alliance to get some win, because most BG's end with horde just farming alliance..

 

[Splosion]

I think it took him a while to write.

 

[Xipe]

shreddies is cereal.

 

[Zmirnøff]

Shreddies isn't cereal! Sugar Puffs, now that's a cereal.

 

[Aelobin]

Only to a point. Keeping the mastery active is relatively easy, but having a large amount of mastery increases the largest part of your healing by a flat, un-diminishing percent. Haste has thresholds, as you pointed out yourself, and as such between the threshold, the value of haste is diminished.

What applies to 85s does apply to 80s, funnily enough. Wild growth and Efflorescence are available to 80s too, so that haste breakpoint is probably the most important. Feel free to go to the next threshold of haste if you want (nearly double that, which you might have just reached), but mastery still increases the healing you do by more. Especially since we can gain so much at 80. I don't see how having more of a diminishing stat changes weightings, at all.

After reading this, I decided to go into theorycraft mode and do some math/testing. I'm pretty sure that:
- Haste doesn't diminish at higher values (at least not until you start hitting GCD caps for hardcast spells, which is usually around 50% or higher).
- Haste doesn't diminish between breakpoints. If you don't have enough haste to add an additional tick (aka a breakpoint), the interval between ticks will be reduced which results in the same HPS increase. The only 2 negatives to this are that you'll need to cast the HoT slightly more often and therefore you'll spend a tiny bit more mana.
- Haste is more valuable than mastery per point (at least for HoTs, as you can see in this table I made). I didn't look at the effect on hardcasting spells, but I'd guess it would be similar (possibly with haste being even more valuable as you'd spend less time casting the direct heal to keep your mastery up, and more time spreading HoTs).

 

[Zmirnøff]

No, I said it wasn't viable outside of pvp. In wrath of the lich king. The change with cataclysm brought paladins from spamming the fast, cheap, useless heal to using a few more spells that they had access to.

If you spammed flash of light with intellect gemming you weredoing it wrong I'm afraid, since we gemmed intellect for regen, something which you had no issue with if you wanted to spam FoL. You gemmed spellpower. Not that it was better than spamming holy light or anything, jus' sayin'. Hell, you probably used the 264 libram when we got proc-y stats from them. This was also bad.

Most healers gemmed spellpower. Shamans gemmed haste, and paladins intellect (if you did it right, which you weren't btw).

Thing is, you went above the 2nd important breakpoint. You've effectively wasted some of the haste you have if you're going for hot breakpoints. I'm not trolling, just stating fact.

But nice try Magnerz, pity you had to go be all like this to practically everyone.

I wouldn't call the old Flash of Light useless, seemed to work pretty well for me. *shrug*

And I might have to admit I might have made a mistake. I might have not gemmed intellect after all. I can't say for sure either way. Hell I couldn't even remember it was 4.0.1 that brought the gem changes. And no, I used the 232 libram most of the time. Even in ICC.

Do me a quick favour Splosion, give me what breakpoints you're referring to as the 2nd important breakpoint. Because the breakpoint I went for gives like 6 breakpoints over what you originally said.

And... SHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

 

[Splosion]

After reading this, I decided to go into theorycraft mode and do some math/testing. I'm pretty sure that:
- Haste doesn't diminish at higher values (at least not until you start hitting GCD caps for hardcast spells, which is usually around 50% or higher).
- Haste doesn't diminish between breakpoints. If you don't have enough haste to add an additional tick (aka a breakpoint), the interval between ticks will be reduced which results in the same HPS increase. The only 2 negatives to this are that you'll need to cast the HoT slightly more often and therefore you'll spend a tiny bit more mana.
- Haste is more valuable than mastery per point (at least for HoTs, as you can see in this table I made). I didn't look at the effect on hardcasting spells, but I'd guess it would be similar (possibly with haste being even more valuable as you'd spend less time casting the direct heal to keep your mastery up, and more time spreading HoTs).

Haste might not diminish between breakpoints, but it doesn't add additional healing, only increases mana consumption (fairly moot, but still valid), and as such (for a resto druid), the flat % increase is better. The 2nd breakpoint I was referring to was the 2nd time you get a point that provides an extra tick of both efflorescence and Wild growth(without nature's grace, which Magnerz hasn't specced for anyway). Rejuv won't really get much from the increased haste between breakpoints because of talents, and it's the single most used spell in a druid arsenal.

I don't see anywhere in that spreadsheet about DR at all. It's there, because it is in effect from the moment you start gaining any rating of the stat, similar to dodge/parry/crit/etc. The marginal increases that are supposedly present are only such increases if you gain rating to % equally at all times, which simply isn't true.

Two can play at the theorycrafting game.

I wouldn't call the old Flash of Light useless, seemed to work pretty well for me. *shrug*

And I might have to admit I might have made a mistake. I might have not gemmed intellect after all. I can't say for sure either way. Hell I couldn't even remember it was 4.0.1 that brought the gem changes. And no, I used the 232 libram most of the time. Even in ICC.

Do me a quick favour Splosion, give me what breakpoints you're referring to as the 2nd important breakpoint. Because the breakpoint I went for gives like 6 breakpoints over what you originally said.

And... SHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Quick, you've got a few more points to withdraw!

 

[Razzerz]

No, I said it wasn't viable outside of pvp. In wrath of the lich king. The change with cataclysm brought paladins from spamming the fast, cheap, useless heal to using a few more spells that they had access to.

If you spammed flash of light with intellect gemming you weredoing it wrong I'm afraid, since we gemmed intellect for regen, something which you had no issue with if you wanted to spam FoL. You gemmed spellpower. Not that it was better than spamming holy light or anything, jus' sayin'. Hell, you probably used the 264 libram when we got proc-y stats from them. This was also bad.

Most healers gemmed spellpower. Shamans gemmed haste, and paladins intellect (if you did it right, which you weren't btw).

Thing is, you went above the 2nd important breakpoint. You've effectively wasted some of the haste you have if you're going for hot breakpoints. I'm not trolling, just stating fact.

But nice try Magnerz, pity you had to go be all like this to practically everyone.

Be quiet remember you dispelled the Abdom!

 

[Aelobin]

Even though this thread has had a fair bit of flame, none of the following is personal. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the whole haste discussion so we can figure out what is best should anyone ask in the future:

Haste might not diminish between breakpoints

You said it did in a previous post, which is why I responded to correct you

it doesn't add additional healing

It adds additional HPS, which is what matters when comparing stats.

only increases mana consumption

It depends. If the increased HPS from the haste tops off a health bar where the lower hps from mastery wouldn't, you'll need to cast a second spell (at some point in the fight) to make up for that (= more mana comsumed).

as such (for a resto druid), the flat % increase is better

Very few healers go oom at 80, especially not a resto druid (unless something has gone seriously wrong in the fight, or they're overhealing by a stupid amount). The numbers I provided argue that the haste increase trumps the flat % increase from mastery.

The 2nd breakpoint I was referring to was the 2nd time you get a point that provides an extra tick of both efflorescence and Wild growth

The breakpoint Zmirnoff has taken lines up 5 extra ticks across all the HoTs within 2.5% haste.

Rejuv won't really get much from the increased haste between breakpoints because of talents, and it's the single most used spell in a druid arsenal.

This confuses me. I'm not familiar with druid talents, but it sounds like you just contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

I don't see anywhere in that spreadsheet about DR at all.

That's because there are no DRs on haste, even between breakpoints (I checked the effect that a varying haste value had on the interval of ticks and total HoT duration). These were the results on a Rejuv: haste% = tick interval (in seconds)
- 12.45% = 2.67
- 11.99% = 2.68
- 10.64% = 2.71
- 9.29% = 2.75
- 8.07% = 2.78
- 6.79% = 2.81
- 6.23% = 2.82
- 5.45% = 2.85
- 4.51% = 2.87
- 3.39% = 2.90
- 2.76% = 2.92
- 2.69% = 2.92

It's there, because it is in effect from the moment you start gaining any rating of the stat, similar to dodge/parry/crit/etc.

Crit doesn't have DRs either. Only dodge/parry have DRs because otherwise tanks could just stack avoidance to 100% (or close to it) and trivialise most (and new) encounters at high gear levels.

The marginal increases that are supposedly present are only such increases if you gain rating to % equally at all times, which simply isn't true.

It is true. I just pulled these values directly from in-game: haste rating / haste percentage = rating needed per point of haste
- 1079 / 32.91 = 32.786
- 955 / 29.12 = 32.795
- 876 / 26.72 = 32.784
- 803 / 24.49 = 32.789
- 724 / 22.08 = 32.790
- 636 / 19.40 = 32.784
The numbers vary slightly probably due to rounding.

 

[Splosion]

You said it did in a previous post, which is why I responded to correct you

I said the value of haste diminishes, an entirely different thing.

It adds additional HPS, which is what matters when comparing stats.

I'm not so sure about this. You've got HPM to consider aswell. As is the case with hots, there aren't a lot of fights where ticking faster is the best thing. Ticking harder maybe.

It depends. If the increased HPS from the haste tops off a health bar where the lower hps from mastery wouldn't, you'll need to cast a second spell (at some point in the fight) to make up for that (= more mana comsumed).

Your values for the difference between the two stats means this basically never happens, given how close the results are (and going from a base heal, without SP presumably)

Very few healers go oom at 80, especially not a resto druid (unless something has gone seriously wrong in the fight, or they're overhealing by a stupid amount). The numbers I provided argue that the haste increase trumps the flat % increase from mastery.

This is a valid point, but depends how challenging you're attempting to make the content (2 or 3 healing 25man heroic ICC for example). If you're not, why is our esteemed druid reforging to spirit? Surely more throughput stats are favoured.

The breakpoint Zmirnoff has taken lines up 5 extra ticks across all the HoTs within 2.5% haste.

Really? He has around 31% haste on the armory. Most breakpoints are at 35%-37% or more, so I don't see it. He needs more haste if he's going for these breakpoints.

This confuses me. I'm not familiar with druid talents, but it sounds like you just contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

You need a very large amount of haste to gain a lot of extra ticks on rejuv. It also has a 1sec gcd from talents, so you don't get the extra effect of haste on that.

That's because there are no DRs on haste, even between breakpoints (I checked the effect that a varying haste value had on the interval of ticks and total HoT duration). These were the results on a Rejuv: haste% = tick interval (in seconds)
- 12.45% = 2.67
- 11.99% = 2.68
- 10.64% = 2.71
- 9.29% = 2.75
- 8.07% = 2.78
- 6.79% = 2.81
- 6.23% = 2.82
- 5.45% = 2.85
- 4.51% = 2.87
- 3.39% = 2.90
- 2.76% = 2.92
- 2.69% = 2.92

I'm still not beliving this supposed "no DR on haste". It already provides increasing returns, why wouldn't it have DR? I see the ratings, but

Crit doesn't have DRs either. Only dodge/parry have DRs because otherwise tanks could just stack avoidance to 100% (or close to it) and trivialise most (and new) encounters at high gear levels.

I'm perfectly aware of why dodge/parry have the DR.

It is true. I just pulled these values directly from in-game: haste rating / haste percentage = rating needed per point of haste
- 1079 / 32.91 = 32.786
- 955 / 29.12 = 32.795
- 876 / 26.72 = 32.784
- 803 / 24.49 = 32.789
- 724 / 22.08 = 32.790
- 636 / 19.40 = 32.784
The numbers vary slightly probably due to rounding.

Seems I was incorrect. But what about mastery double-dipping with a number of effects? Namely the two spells I mentioned, Efflorescence and Wild growth.

Be quiet remember you dispelled the Abdom!

You mean the one that didn't slow the oozes on our kill? How useful. The ooze on the ground does negligable damage, nothing that 5 geared twinks couldn't out-heal (did it back in 3.3.5, it's completely possible given how powerful our healing is now)

 

[Nesyla]

I'm slightly disapointed here, however the discussion seems to be reasonable now and i will not lock it.

Nonetheless, if it goes off topic and the personal flame get's back on ill have the partecipants infracted and the thread locked.

 

[Aelobin]

I said the value of haste diminishes, an entirely different thing.

Yes but you haven't given some solid backing as to why it diminishes, whilst I've been providing proof about why it doesn't diminish in the different ways it could.

I'm not so sure about this. You've got HPM to consider aswell.
...
This is a valid point, but depends how challenging you're attempting to make the content (2 or 3 healing 25man heroic ICC for example).

If by HPM you mean healing per mana (rather than per minute) then you're contradicting yourself again by agreeing that mana isn't a problem for 80 healers.

As is the case with hots, there aren't a lot of fights where ticking faster is the best thing. Ticking harder maybe.

I'd like to argue that ticking faster is more valuable than ticking harder in the average situation. After the HoT has healed the person to full (which a slow ticking HoT might not have anything to do with due to aoe heals), the only value to the HoT is healing incoming damage before it expires. With a faster tick frequency, the HoT is less likely to overheal just before that damage arrives (or just after aoe heals have finished casting).

Your values for the difference between the two stats means this basically never happens, given how close the results are (and going from a base heal, without SP presumably)

The difference between the 2 stats is about 11.5%, which is quite a lot imo.

Really? He has around 31% haste on the armory. Most breakpoints are at 35%-37% or more, so I don't see it. He needs more haste if he's going for these breakpoints.

Plus the 5% haste raid buff.

You need a very large amount of haste to gain a lot of extra ticks on rejuv. It also has a 1sec gcd from talents, so you don't get the extra effect of haste on that.

It doesn't matter how many ticks you gain, the point I've been making is that the HPS gain from haste is linear even between breakpoints.

I'm still not beliving this supposed "no DR on haste". It already provides increasing returns, why wouldn't it have DR?

It doesn't provide increasing returns. For every 1% of haste you get, you can fit 1% more ticks/casts in within the length of a fight.

I'm perfectly aware of why dodge/parry have the DR.

I didn't doubt that, but why did you say crit has DRs?

Seems I was incorrect. But what about mastery double-dipping with a number of effects? Namely the two spells I mentioned, Efflorescence and Wild growth.

I don't know enough about druids to say whether the double-dipping would be enough to favour mastery, but you hadn't offered that as an arguement until now.


At the end of the day, I'm only posting in this thread to try help give other druids (and haste users I suppose) an insight into what might be best for them. If I'm not sure about something, I'm not basing an arguement on it as there's nothing I'd gain from giving out false information.

 

[Zmirnøff]

I've discovered another reason why I now will never use mastery over haste as a resto druid.

If you can help me get my head round this, it'd be much appreciated.

I'm testing this with current gear, see my armory.

Rejuv Tick with my normal mastery levels (19.5875%) = 2952 without Harmony, 3328 with Harmony.

2952*1.195875 = 3530 rounded down. Sooo, I'm missing approximately 202 healing each tick.
I worked out in a spreadsheet for ease of use that the difference in game at this level of mastery for with and without Harmony up is around 12.74%
A loss of 6.85% mastery on the HoT.

Rejuv Tick with as much mastery as I can get without sacrificing spirit (30.8875%) = 2952 without Harmony, 3544 with Harmony.

2952*1.308875 = 3863 rounded down. Sooo, I'm missing approximately 319 healing each tick.
I worked out in a spreadsheet for ease of use that the difference in game at this level of mastery for with and without Harmony up is around 20.05%
A loss of 10.83% mastery on the HoT.

So either I'm doing something VERY wrong with my calculations on how mastery affects heals or the game can't count.

What say you Splosion?

 

[Splosion]

I've discovered another reason why I now will never use mastery over haste as a resto druid.

If you can help me get my head round this, it'd be much appreciated.

I'm testing this with current gear, see my armory.

Rejuv Tick with my normal mastery levels (19.5875%) = 2952 without Harmony, 3328 with Harmony.

2952*1.195875 = 3530 rounded down. Sooo, I'm missing approximately 202 healing each tick.
I worked out in a spreadsheet for ease of use that the difference in game at this level of mastery for with and without Harmony up is around 12.74%
A loss of 6.85% mastery on the HoT.

Rejuv Tick with as much mastery as I can get without sacrificing spirit (30.8875%) = 2952 without Harmony, 3544 with Harmony.

2952*1.308875 = 3863 rounded down. Sooo, I'm missing approximately 319 healing each tick.
I worked out in a spreadsheet for ease of use that the difference in game at this level of mastery for with and without Harmony up is around 20.05%
A loss of 10.83% mastery on the HoT.

So either I'm doing something VERY wrong with my calculations on how mastery affects heals or the game can't count.

What say you Splosion?

As mentioned on the EJ thread, harmony is an additive bonus. You have two talents that buff rejuv (4% from Blessing of the grove, 15% from Imp. Rejuv). These together (as I understand) act multiplicatively with the rejuv cast.

100 * 1.04 * 1.15 = 119.6, so 19.6% increase. Harmony is a 10% additive bonus to this, so you end up with 129.6%, rather than 119.6 * 1.1 (base mastery) = 131.56%.

Using your mastery values, it becomes 119.6% + 19.5875% = 139.1875%. If it worked multiplicatively, the bonus would be:
119.6 * 1.195875 = 143.02665%, a 3.83915% discrepancy.

Finally, using the mastery stacked values (remove that spirit, damn you it's useless), 119.6% + 30.8875% = 150.4875%, compared to multiplying: 119.6 * 1.308875 = 156.54145%, a discrepancy (I'm sure you can see this) of 6.05395%, which would account for the missing healing. Add in the rejuv glyph, and that number is similar (if not, exactly the same as) what you're seeing. Additive mastery means it isn't quite as strong as it seems.

Oh, and the 25% increased healing you get from being resto would have some part here too, I'm sure.

 

[Zmirnøff]

As mentioned on the EJ thread, harmony is an additive bonus. You have two talents that buff rejuv (4% from Blessing of the grove, 15% from Imp. Rejuv). These together (as I understand) act multiplicatively with the rejuv cast.

100 * 1.04 * 1.15 = 119.6, so 19.6% increase. Harmony is a 10% additive bonus to this, so you end up with 129.6%, rather than 119.6 * 1.1 (base mastery) = 131.56%.

Using your mastery values, it becomes 119.6% + 19.5875% = 139.1875%. If it worked multiplicatively, the bonus would be:
119.6 * 1.195875 = 143.02665%, a 3.83915% discrepancy.

Finally, using the mastery stacked values (remove that spirit, damn you it's useless), 119.6% + 30.8875% = 150.4875%, compared to multiplying: 119.6 * 1.308875 = 156.54145%, a discrepancy (I'm sure you can see this) of 6.05395%, which would account for the missing healing. Add in the rejuv glyph, and that number is similar (if not, exactly the same as) what you're seeing. Additive mastery means it isn't quite as strong as it seems.

Oh, and the 25% increased healing you get from being resto would have some part here too, I'm sure.

Makes sense. GOOD JOB!

I'm nearly done with my real world test and you'll be amazed at what I've discovered.

DONE!

 

[Zmirnøff]

37.571% Haste Raid Buffed (19% Mastery)	Total Healed per cast.	Difference	Heals Per Second
Regrowth	20733	-1527	3000.434153
Rejuvenation	22212	+2248	1576.437189
Lifebloom x3	34187	+1554	2541.784387
Swiftmend + Efflorescence (1 target)	30509	-1865	3649.401914
Swiftmend + Efflorescence (2 targets)	48779	-2864	5834.808612
Swiftmend + Efflorescence (3 targets)	67049	-3863	8020.215311
Wild Growth (1 target)	9024	+265	1079.425837
Healing Touch	17816	-1346	8172.477064
23.186% Haste Raid Buffed (30% Mastery)
Regrowth	22260	+1527	2883.419689
Rejuvenation	19964	-2248	1514.719272
Lifebloom x3	32633	-1554	2436.60773
Swiftmend + Efflorescence (1 target)	32374	+1865	3796.378817
Swiftmend + Efflorescence (2 targets)	51643	+2864	6055.982926
Swiftmend + Efflorescence (3 targets)	70912	+3863	8315.587035
Wild Growth (1 target)	8759	-265	1027.135419
Healing Touch	19162	+1346	7885.596708

The results of my testing in game. Take it as you'd like, but I'm afraid I'm sticking with haste, I like the playstyle better and even though I'll admit mastery would be better in some cases, frantic healing like I do wouldn't be one of them.

 

[Splosion]

Am I looking at different versions of the math I did for you? Because if I'm not, I don't really know what that table is showing.

 

[Zmirnøff]

Nah man, that's real in game tests.

I took my existing gear set, and took the numbers from one heal.

Example being Rejuvenation, initial heal was 2244, ticks were 3328 (non crit).

Then I reforged to mastery, unfortunately the lowest haste rating I could get was 23.186% raid buffed, which is slightly over what you said to aim for.

Took the healing again from Rejuv, 2244 initial and 3544 HoT (non crit).

With haste, 6 heals at 3328 + initial of 2244 = 22212 healing per cast.
With mastery, 5 heals at 3544 + initial of 2244 = 19964 healing per cast.

I done that for all the heals listed above. Only one I went for a crit heal was Regrowth because it would have took me ages to get non-crit figures.

The difference is how much healing it loses or gains per cast in comparison, so Rejuv per cast done 2248 more healing per cast with haste than mastery.

I was going to stop there, but I figured the benefit of haste is also the casting times and the lower GCD on certain spells.

Heals Per Second took the Cast time if any, if no cast time, it takes the GCD. Then adds the HoT duration, takes those two and divides the healing done per cast by that number, giving the most accurate representation of Healing Per Second that I could work out. If you have a better idea, I'd gladly plug it into the spreadsheet I'm using and give you my results.


Here's the figures I got from in game. All were with their respective reforges, spell power wasn't changed, crit wasn't used (thus the non-crits).

Haste /w 19% Harmony (37.571% Haste Raid Buffed)
Regrowth Heal = 14505 - 15594 = 15049 avg.
Regrowth HoT = 1421
Rejuvenation Heal = 2244 2692 (trinket)
Rejuvenation HoT = 3328
Lifebloom x3 HoT = 1455
Lifebloom Heal = 13817 (Hit) 27635 (Crit)
Swiftmend Heal = 12239
Efflorescence HoT = 1827
Wild Growth Starting HoT = 1132
Wild Growth Ending HoT = 673
Healing Touch = 16961 - 18671 = 17816 avg.


Mastery /w 30% Harmony (23.186% Haste Raid Buffed)
Regrowth Heal = 15592 - 16672 = 16132 avg.
Regrowth HoT = 1532
Rejuvenation Heal = 2244 2692 (trinket)
Rejuvenation HoT = 3544
Lifebloom x3 HoT = 1568
Lifebloom Heal = 13817 (Hit) 27635 (Crit)
Swiftmend Heal = 13105
Efflorescence HoT = 2141
Wild Growth Starting HoT = 1221
Wild Growth Ending HoT = 726
Healing Touch = 18192 - 20131 = 19162 avg

Regrowth and Healing Touch figures were harder to work out because they're so inconsistent, but I kept casting till I was glad I had the highest and lowest. I just added them together and divided by two to get a rough average.

So overall, if you're going balls to the wall spamming on everything in sight, haste edges out. Not by much mind you...


What I really need is a breakdown of your average druid healer in a 25 man raid to find out what's comes out ahead.

Not taking mana into account, if Rejuvenation is the highest used spell in a 25 man raid and it does higher heal per cast at the higher breakpoint then that'd trump the increase in healing on Regrowth/Healing Touch/Efflorescence.

 

[Splosion]

Nah man, that's real in game tests.

I took my existing gear set, and took the numbers from one heal.

Example being Rejuvenation, initial heal was 2244, ticks were 3328 (non crit).

Then I reforged to mastery, unfortunately the lowest haste rating I could get was 23.186% raid buffed, which is slightly over what you said to aim for.

Took the healing again from Rejuv, 2244 initial and 3544 HoT (non crit).

With haste, 6 heals at 3328 + initial of 2244 = 22212 healing per cast.
With mastery, 5 heals at 3544 + initial of 2244 = 19964 healing per cast.

I done that for all the heals listed above. Only one I went for a crit heal was Regrowth because it would have took me ages to get non-crit figures.

The difference is how much healing it loses or gains per cast in comparison, so Rejuv per cast done 2248 more healing per cast with haste than mastery.

I was going to stop there, but I figured the benefit of haste is also the casting times and the lower GCD on certain spells.

Heals Per Second took the Cast time if any, if no cast time, it takes the GCD. Then adds the HoT duration, takes those two and divides the healing done per cast by that number, giving the most accurate representation of Healing Per Second that I could work out. If you have a better idea, I'd gladly plug it into the spreadsheet I'm using and give you my results.


Here's the figures I got from in game. All were with their respective reforges, spell power wasn't changed, crit wasn't used (thus the non-crits).

Haste /w 19% Harmony (37.571% Haste Raid Buffed)
Regrowth Heal = 14505 - 15594 = 15049 avg.
Regrowth HoT = 1421
Rejuvenation Heal = 2244 2692 (trinket)
Rejuvenation HoT = 3328
Lifebloom x3 HoT = 1455
Lifebloom Heal = 13817 (Hit) 27635 (Crit)
Swiftmend Heal = 12239
Efflorescence HoT = 1827
Wild Growth Starting HoT = 1132
Wild Growth Ending HoT = 673
Healing Touch = 16961 - 18671 = 17816 avg.


Mastery /w 30% Harmony (23.186% Haste Raid Buffed)
Regrowth Heal = 15592 - 16672 = 16132 avg.
Regrowth HoT = 1532
Rejuvenation Heal = 2244 2692 (trinket)
Rejuvenation HoT = 3544
Lifebloom x3 HoT = 1568
Lifebloom Heal = 13817 (Hit) 27635 (Crit)
Swiftmend Heal = 13105
Efflorescence HoT = 2141
Wild Growth Starting HoT = 1221
Wild Growth Ending HoT = 726
Healing Touch = 18192 - 20131 = 19162 avg

Regrowth and Healing Touch figures were harder to work out because they're so inconsistent, but I kept casting till I was glad I had the highest and lowest. I just added them together and divided by two to get a rough average.

So overall, if you're going balls to the wall spamming on everything in sight, haste edges out. Not by much mind you...


What I really need is a breakdown of your average druid healer in a 25 man raid to find out what's comes out ahead.

Not taking mana into account, if Rejuvenation is the highest used spell in a 25 man raid and it does higher heal per cast at the higher breakpoint then that'd trump the increase in healing on Regrowth/Healing Touch/Efflorescence.

I've a feeling it's simply the mana consumption that resto druids at 85 have to deal with (even though you have SILLY high amounts of spirit by comparison). I'm not so sure about what is more healing, WG/Efflorescence or rejuv, I figure you can check WoL for that (No significant healing changes between 80 and 85, but you do gain a little in terms of regrowth hot healing, and nature's grace (might be an idea to grab this on an 80, since Furor is only a (somewhat useless in this case) regen increase.