Warrior/Pally
- Thread starter Papewiao
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felixmaster
Legend
Pala will come out top
Gankenstein
Legend
Pally + Venerable Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge + crusader proc + lifeblood = epixness when spamming crusader strike you should try it
:Horde:
:Horde:
Caulfield
OG
To make this even better switch into a 2hander w/ 20 haste when sader procs, and use Lifeblood at thesame time.Gankenstein said:
While testing, procs might throw of the numbers a little bit due to chance. Maybe use the enchant +5 weapon damage, or no enchant at all. In addition, you could think about using sharpening stones.
Djaeb
Legend
5+ wep dmg? thats for 1H on a 2h u can get 9+ dmg. 25str would add almost 14 dmg per strike on a BAR so it is definately better than flat dmg+.
A pala with a sader proc switching to 25 str would be able to crit 300+ on clothies if he has the correct buffs and gear.
Combined with lifeblood, 25str might give more dps depending on you other gear and buffs.
Warriors also gain more form haste since haste increase their rage regen.
Caul, do you use haste on gloves or something else? also, how is rage in lvl 1? can we spam strike all the time or do you need to wait longer than the CD between strikes?
If strike is spamable then warrs would have on average 7 more seconds of sader per min than a pala due to the shorter CD.
@papewiao. Caul is correct, testing with crusader would give very incorrect results unless you stood dpsing against a dummy for several hours. I would be very happy if you would post your crit%, AP, hit%, haste% and all that on both classes, maybe with different gear sets if you have.
I would be happy to to do the math to see wich class is best in theory ^^
A pala with a sader proc switching to 25 str would be able to crit 300+ on clothies if he has the correct buffs and gear.
Combined with lifeblood, 25str might give more dps depending on you other gear and buffs.
Warriors also gain more form haste since haste increase their rage regen.
Caul, do you use haste on gloves or something else? also, how is rage in lvl 1? can we spam strike all the time or do you need to wait longer than the CD between strikes?
If strike is spamable then warrs would have on average 7 more seconds of sader per min than a pala due to the shorter CD.
@papewiao. Caul is correct, testing with crusader would give very incorrect results unless you stood dpsing against a dummy for several hours. I would be very happy if you would post your crit%, AP, hit%, haste% and all that on both classes, maybe with different gear sets if you have.
I would be happy to to do the math to see wich class is best in theory ^^
Caulfield
OG
Oh hell +9dmg and the strength chants skipped my mind all together, but yeah point was it would be a good idea not to do dmg tests w/ sader. Yeah I use 10 haste gloves.
ok I just went to hit the dummy in theramore. I was pretty buffed, but I was gaining 20 rage quicker then the 3sec cooldown for strike most of the time. Thing is though, I wasnt being hit, so I wasnt getting the rage from taking damage. That said, I was buffed so if I may have been getting more rage from doing more damage, Im not sure if rage is based on dmg or per hit, dont know. I was in a stam build, so results would be different in a dps set I spose.
I had 138 attack power and 30 strength. With keen machete I was criting 50-60, with 1hand BoA crits came in at 85-105, then with sader proc & 2hand pvp BoA sword crits were 240-260, man that'd be awesome for Crusader strike.
ok I just went to hit the dummy in theramore. I was pretty buffed, but I was gaining 20 rage quicker then the 3sec cooldown for strike most of the time. Thing is though, I wasnt being hit, so I wasnt getting the rage from taking damage. That said, I was buffed so if I may have been getting more rage from doing more damage, Im not sure if rage is based on dmg or per hit, dont know. I was in a stam build, so results would be different in a dps set I spose.
I had 138 attack power and 30 strength. With keen machete I was criting 50-60, with 1hand BoA crits came in at 85-105, then with sader proc & 2hand pvp BoA sword crits were 240-260, man that'd be awesome for Crusader strike.
Caulfield
OG
OK Djaeb Im back after some testing, I didnt use any addons or number counting devices so its all from just what I noticed.
Caulfield, lv1 human Warrior. 138ap, 30 strength, 45% crit, 10 haste gloves & 5 hit boots.
First I tryed some duels in goldshire, but results are not very conclusive as there were not too many people around to duel and when I was dueling, we were jumping around so I was able to concentrate on the rage bar/cd/and duel all at once, sorry ):
Next I went to hogger with a mate, First I tanked him and had him hitting me. No matter which of my main three weapons I opted for I was always capped at 100 rage. So if a lv1 raid team was to somehow have a warr tank, he wont be starved of rage at all, the warrior will be . . . Furious haha.
After that I had Lovestotwink's lv10 rogue grab aggro at the start of the fight, and I swang at hooger from behind. 1st I used Keen Machete - Item - World of Warcraft w/ LStealing, and it had disappointing results ): the 3sec Strike CD would finish while I was still at 10-15 Rage most of the time.
Next I used Venerable Mass of McGowan - Item - World of Warcraft w/ sader, but sader didnt proc much so dont need to worry to much about that. Anyway this came in about right on par, Strike's 3sec CD would finish while my rage was at 18-25'ish. Lastly I tried Reforged Truesilver Champion - Item - World of Warcraft with 20haste and this regenerated rage at an awesome rate, my rage wasnt going down much at all, it was actually going up over the course of the fight.
Lastly I tried hitting at a 19 twink paladin. Results were worse then Hogger. Keen Machete left me waiting for ages between each Strike CD, and Ven Mass of Mc'Gow wasnt able to spam Strike either, although rage regenerated quicker then KMachete. This time the 2Hander PvP BoA sword came out ontop again, I was able to use strike every CD.
OK from this I think I'm able to conclude that rage is generated on DMG done not on Swings that strike your target. Also when attacking things of higher levels the proc rates seem to go lower, so 20haste/25Strength is most likely better. Perhaps maybe the best rotation would be use a 2Hander with 20haste till you rage cap, then switch to sader and hope it procs while your rage slowly declines, then upon procs pop LBlood & switch back into 20haste, similar to the hunter method except 25agil becomes 25strength or 20haste. But the move Strike hits very weak anyway, maybe its not worth the effort. On the Theramore target dummy it didnt crit over 30 for me, while white hits passed 250 on crit(with sader).
Well thats about all I have to report atm, maybe you can break down the data in a different way to me. Cheers.
Caulfield, lv1 human Warrior. 138ap, 30 strength, 45% crit, 10 haste gloves & 5 hit boots.
First I tryed some duels in goldshire, but results are not very conclusive as there were not too many people around to duel and when I was dueling, we were jumping around so I was able to concentrate on the rage bar/cd/and duel all at once, sorry ):
Next I went to hogger with a mate, First I tanked him and had him hitting me. No matter which of my main three weapons I opted for I was always capped at 100 rage. So if a lv1 raid team was to somehow have a warr tank, he wont be starved of rage at all, the warrior will be . . . Furious haha.
After that I had Lovestotwink's lv10 rogue grab aggro at the start of the fight, and I swang at hooger from behind. 1st I used Keen Machete - Item - World of Warcraft w/ LStealing, and it had disappointing results ): the 3sec Strike CD would finish while I was still at 10-15 Rage most of the time.
Next I used Venerable Mass of McGowan - Item - World of Warcraft w/ sader, but sader didnt proc much so dont need to worry to much about that. Anyway this came in about right on par, Strike's 3sec CD would finish while my rage was at 18-25'ish. Lastly I tried Reforged Truesilver Champion - Item - World of Warcraft with 20haste and this regenerated rage at an awesome rate, my rage wasnt going down much at all, it was actually going up over the course of the fight.
Lastly I tried hitting at a 19 twink paladin. Results were worse then Hogger. Keen Machete left me waiting for ages between each Strike CD, and Ven Mass of Mc'Gow wasnt able to spam Strike either, although rage regenerated quicker then KMachete. This time the 2Hander PvP BoA sword came out ontop again, I was able to use strike every CD.
OK from this I think I'm able to conclude that rage is generated on DMG done not on Swings that strike your target. Also when attacking things of higher levels the proc rates seem to go lower, so 20haste/25Strength is most likely better. Perhaps maybe the best rotation would be use a 2Hander with 20haste till you rage cap, then switch to sader and hope it procs while your rage slowly declines, then upon procs pop LBlood & switch back into 20haste, similar to the hunter method except 25agil becomes 25strength or 20haste. But the move Strike hits very weak anyway, maybe its not worth the effort. On the Theramore target dummy it didnt crit over 30 for me, while white hits passed 250 on crit(with sader).
Well thats about all I have to report atm, maybe you can break down the data in a different way to me. Cheers.
Djaeb
Legend
OK Djaeb Im back after some testing. Thank you very much ^^
Caulfield, lv1 human Warrior. 138ap, 30 strength, 45% crit, 10 haste gloves & 5 hit boots.
Str is not necessary if i already know the AP
First I tryed some duels in goldshire, but results are not very conclusive as there were not too many people around to duel and when I was dueling, we were jumping around so I was able to concentrate on the rage bar/cd/and duel all at once, sorry ):
Too bad
the rest of the info is good tho ^^, maybe try rage regen on a friend next time?
So if a lv1 raid team was to somehow have a warr tank, he wont be starved of rage at all, the warrior will be . . . Furious haha.
Good to know. The tanking warr would then be able to take aggro back quite good once he lost it with a nice burst of strikes, might be usefull in grp, non-kiting pve
Also when attacking things of higher levels the proc rates seem to go lower, so 20haste/25Strength is most likely better.
I though i posted something about that here when i realised it. Well thats why I use unholy in all my pve, unholy is the only one of unholy, lifesteal and fiery that isn't affected by miss chances. The missing chants miss more in pve where thay are useless withour major hit buffs and less in pvp so they are still viable even if it they are weaker against higher levels. Unholy also trumpfs the other two in pve since it can't be resisted, it will deal that 45-55 dmg every time.
Perhaps maybe the best rotation would be use a 2Hander with 20haste till you rage cap, then switch to sader and hope it procs while your rage slowly declines, then upon procs pop LBlood & switch back into 20haste, similar to the hunter method except 25agil becomes 25strength or 20haste.
This depends on how fast you get rage with 20 haste and how fast it goes with crusader, stockpiling isn't usefull unless you can increase the amount of strikes per min and by that increase the effective crusader ppm. using 1h and shield seems a bit weak compared to a 2h when waiting for a proc now, maybe try some duels where u only keep the sheild untill u lose the 100hp?
But the move Strike hits very weak anyway, maybe its not worth the effort. On the Theramore target dummy it didnt crit over 30 for me, while white hits passed 250 on crit(with sader).
The strenght of strike is only that it has a shorter CD than Sader strike so that it will give higher ppms, white dmg is what a warrior needs, screw the dmg on strike
OK from this I think I'm able to conclude that rage is generated on DMG done not on Swings that strike your target.
Good to know. ^^
Well thats about all I have to report atm, maybe you can break down the data in a different way to me. Cheers.
There is now no doubt that palladins are the stronger choice in pvp since rage don't seems to regen fast enough in all builds.
The fact that a tanking warrior reach full rage fast in is quite interesting, it could be usefull in pve. Are there any other level 1s on your server that you could test stuff with?
Again, Thanks for the info ^^
Caulfield, lv1 human Warrior. 138ap, 30 strength, 45% crit, 10 haste gloves & 5 hit boots.
Str is not necessary if i already know the AP
First I tryed some duels in goldshire, but results are not very conclusive as there were not too many people around to duel and when I was dueling, we were jumping around so I was able to concentrate on the rage bar/cd/and duel all at once, sorry ):
Too bad
the rest of the info is good tho ^^, maybe try rage regen on a friend next time?So if a lv1 raid team was to somehow have a warr tank, he wont be starved of rage at all, the warrior will be . . . Furious haha.
Good to know. The tanking warr would then be able to take aggro back quite good once he lost it with a nice burst of strikes, might be usefull in grp, non-kiting pve
Also when attacking things of higher levels the proc rates seem to go lower, so 20haste/25Strength is most likely better.
I though i posted something about that here when i realised it. Well thats why I use unholy in all my pve, unholy is the only one of unholy, lifesteal and fiery that isn't affected by miss chances. The missing chants miss more in pve where thay are useless withour major hit buffs and less in pvp so they are still viable even if it they are weaker against higher levels. Unholy also trumpfs the other two in pve since it can't be resisted, it will deal that 45-55 dmg every time.
Perhaps maybe the best rotation would be use a 2Hander with 20haste till you rage cap, then switch to sader and hope it procs while your rage slowly declines, then upon procs pop LBlood & switch back into 20haste, similar to the hunter method except 25agil becomes 25strength or 20haste.
This depends on how fast you get rage with 20 haste and how fast it goes with crusader, stockpiling isn't usefull unless you can increase the amount of strikes per min and by that increase the effective crusader ppm. using 1h and shield seems a bit weak compared to a 2h when waiting for a proc now, maybe try some duels where u only keep the sheild untill u lose the 100hp?
But the move Strike hits very weak anyway, maybe its not worth the effort. On the Theramore target dummy it didnt crit over 30 for me, while white hits passed 250 on crit(with sader).
The strenght of strike is only that it has a shorter CD than Sader strike so that it will give higher ppms, white dmg is what a warrior needs, screw the dmg on strike
OK from this I think I'm able to conclude that rage is generated on DMG done not on Swings that strike your target.
Good to know. ^^
Well thats about all I have to report atm, maybe you can break down the data in a different way to me. Cheers.
There is now no doubt that palladins are the stronger choice in pvp since rage don't seems to regen fast enough in all builds.
The fact that a tanking warrior reach full rage fast in is quite interesting, it could be usefull in pve. Are there any other level 1s on your server that you could test stuff with?
Again, Thanks for the info ^^
Caulfield
OG
No there are no other lv1 twinks on my realm sorry ): My 2 mates both took their rogue & mage to 19.
"Maybe try some duels where u only keep the sheild untill u lose the 100hp?" Yeah this is what I usually do. If it looks like an easy enemy I just use keen machete the whole time simply because I love that weapon, but if its a BoA geared toon, a higher level or a healer class I open with Ven Mass of Mc'Gow & Westfall Shield and wait for sader proc, then I pop lifeblood which is bound in a Marco that also equips my Reforged Truesilver Champion and then I hope for crits.
Also need to remember that I only had 45%crit & 138ap due to the fact that I had a Cologne buff from the love festival, and Rallying cry of the Dragonslayer. Most of the time lv1s wont have this so they wont do as much damage, meaning rage probably wont regen as well as mine did. This might throw of all the numbers, Im not sure.
When I log on next Ill try find some duels in GShire, I'll let you know how I go.
"Maybe try some duels where u only keep the sheild untill u lose the 100hp?" Yeah this is what I usually do. If it looks like an easy enemy I just use keen machete the whole time simply because I love that weapon, but if its a BoA geared toon, a higher level or a healer class I open with Ven Mass of Mc'Gow & Westfall Shield and wait for sader proc, then I pop lifeblood which is bound in a Marco that also equips my Reforged Truesilver Champion and then I hope for crits.
Also need to remember that I only had 45%crit & 138ap due to the fact that I had a Cologne buff from the love festival, and Rallying cry of the Dragonslayer. Most of the time lv1s wont have this so they wont do as much damage, meaning rage probably wont regen as well as mine did. This might throw of all the numbers, Im not sure.
When I log on next Ill try find some duels in GShire, I'll let you know how I go.
tribal
Legend
As I was reading this thread, I became a little confused about your rage regen thoughts. I just thought I'd post this so that we're all on the same page with how rage is generated.
In 4.0.1 they changed the mechanic so that you regen a set amount of rage based on every white attack. It no longer goes off of your damage done. That's why haste makes it regen faster because you get more white swings in (Strike will not add any extra rage since it's a special attack). Also, misses won't generate rage, but dodges / parries / blocks / etc will.
6.5 * base swing speed of the weapon is the formula
So, Keen Machete at 1.8 speed grants 11.7 rage per swing
Venerable Mass at 2.8 grants 18.2 rage per swing
Reforged Truesilver at 3.6 grants 23.4 rage per swing
Also, with mob damage rage regen, rage is no longer based on the opponent's level but rather your health. I don't know the formula for it, but it is technically constant.
i.e if you have 700 HP, you will generate x rage per x damage always...the opponent's level is no longer a factor. Obviously, if you're attacking higher levels, your rage will regen faster because they will be hitting the x damage typically faster
hope this helps
In 4.0.1 they changed the mechanic so that you regen a set amount of rage based on every white attack. It no longer goes off of your damage done. That's why haste makes it regen faster because you get more white swings in (Strike will not add any extra rage since it's a special attack). Also, misses won't generate rage, but dodges / parries / blocks / etc will.
6.5 * base swing speed of the weapon is the formula
So, Keen Machete at 1.8 speed grants 11.7 rage per swing
Venerable Mass at 2.8 grants 18.2 rage per swing
Reforged Truesilver at 3.6 grants 23.4 rage per swing
Also, with mob damage rage regen, rage is no longer based on the opponent's level but rather your health. I don't know the formula for it, but it is technically constant.
i.e if you have 700 HP, you will generate x rage per x damage always...the opponent's level is no longer a factor. Obviously, if you're attacking higher levels, your rage will regen faster because they will be hitting the x damage typically faster
hope this helps
tribal
Legend
idk ask a warrior!
to my knowledge rage is regenerated the same regardless of where on the combat table your swing lands (block/parry/dodge/hit/crit)
it all has to do with the rage normalization for warriors they've been trying to get right for the last three expansions because in end-game warriors have been gimp.
as for strike consuming rage, i thought i read somewhere that all special attacks (i.e. Strike) spend rage regardless of where they fall on the combat table (hit/dodge/miss), with the exception being parries. didn't One do a video awhile back against some high level elite where the mob parried almost every sinister strike and he didn't lose any energy?
to my knowledge rage is regenerated the same regardless of where on the combat table your swing lands (block/parry/dodge/hit/crit)
it all has to do with the rage normalization for warriors they've been trying to get right for the last three expansions because in end-game warriors have been gimp.
as for strike consuming rage, i thought i read somewhere that all special attacks (i.e. Strike) spend rage regardless of where they fall on the combat table (hit/dodge/miss), with the exception being parries. didn't One do a video awhile back against some high level elite where the mob parried almost every sinister strike and he didn't lose any energy?
Djaeb
Legend
Sinister strike is different. rogue abillitys has always refunded almost all the energy if they don't hit the enemy (dodge, miss, parry), except finishers that didn't do that untill reacently.
I have never played warriors/feral druids so idk how rage works wich is why i asked.
Now someone with a warrior, do strikes that miss, parry, dodge cost rage?
I have never played warriors/feral druids so idk how rage works wich is why i asked.
Now someone with a warrior, do strikes that miss, parry, dodge cost rage?