Jabz
Grandfathered
Love ya quack even with all the banter...its makes it fun and entertaining
Love ya quack even with all the banter...its makes it fun and entertaining
Neebler
Veteran
I mean I thought Elunaria was largely at fault in that situation. But that's just one example.
The big issue is that people develop reputations that aren't forgiven easily. Take responsibility to improve your reputation and then you won't have an entire group of people refusing to play if you join.
Just like bad players need to take responsibility to improve, or mentally weak players need to take responsibility to toughen up, people with bad attitudes need to take responsibility to have better attitudes.
I don't think everyone with a bad attitude should be banned, banning should be a last resort. Ultimately, it's up to the rest of the community to decide if they want a player to join, since they have the power to form or not form games. Everyone cares more about games than one guy, regardless of who it is.
At the end of the day, there has to be some self-responsibility here. Blame the community for being weak or own up to what they're saying and adapt.
Raz
yo what's good
yea about this, pro tip dont leave after 1 game every time mvq no like
Quack
Guest
I agree
Anonymous
Guest
Flaming is plain simple destructive. Not gonna lie, was funny the very first years, but man, people grow up as time passes, don't they?
It's very simple: If one (genuinely) tries and fucks up, then you give objective comments on his play as veteran(presuming they are willing to learn). Just as most of us grown ups would do irl where they are not behind their fucking screens and nobody can see their nerdy faces.
If one obviously is ignorant or sabotages the game on purpose, then you just ignore him and eventually he'll change his mind. (Nobody likes to play on his own, especially within this small community)
Or would you go ahead and "flame" the new apprentice in your firm as earned worker?
Yeah, I guess so, you wouldn't.(The sane ones wouldn't)
Or to reverse the scenery, would you appreciate that?
Just try and don't be a douchy teenager or even worse a pathetic 20smthyo who flames the inexped/weaker players just because you've got some major incapabilities irl.
Ya'll better get your shit together - thxbye
It's very simple: If one (genuinely) tries and fucks up, then you give objective comments on his play as veteran(presuming they are willing to learn). Just as most of us grown ups would do irl where they are not behind their fucking screens and nobody can see their nerdy faces.
If one obviously is ignorant or sabotages the game on purpose, then you just ignore him and eventually he'll change his mind. (Nobody likes to play on his own, especially within this small community)
Or would you go ahead and "flame" the new apprentice in your firm as earned worker?
Yeah, I guess so, you wouldn't.(The sane ones wouldn't)
Or to reverse the scenery, would you appreciate that?
Just try and don't be a douchy teenager or even worse a pathetic 20smthyo who flames the inexped/weaker players just because you've got some major incapabilities irl.
Ya'll better get your shit together - thxbye
Anonymous
Guest
You’re right he probably has a personal issue that causes him to behave like a toxic troll
Quack
Guest
" It's very simple: If one (genuinely) tries and fucks up, then you give objective comments on his play as veteran(presuming they are willing to learn). Just as most of us grown ups would do irl where they are not behind their fucking screens and nobody can see their nerdy faces. " -
This is only acceptable if they're new to their role and have gotten 0 advice from their team. Yesterday I played with a new FC who left bear to rejuv himself at 15 stacks once I told him 3 times not to. He eventually listened and actually did good that game. If someone is new ---> ask for help ----> mess up ----> not COMPLETELY your fault ( aslong as u follow the advice )
Not new ---> messes up ----> your fault - because u didnt ask for advice
ofc everyone has an off game asides Mvq who just drops flags at 80% everytime but everyone else has an off game, but its when its a recurring problem is when the Toxicity should be allowed.
" If one obviously is ignorant or sabotages the game on purpose, then you just ignore him and eventually he'll change his mind. (Nobody likes to play on his own, especially within this small community) "
Not even going to comment on this because you contradict this point in your whole paragraph.
"Or would you go ahead and "flame" the new apprentice in your firm as earned worker?
Yeah, I guess so, you wouldn't.(The sane ones wouldn't)
Or to reverse the scenery, would you appreciate that?"
I might in the long run, I mean it worked for me since cata when I was considered a new-er twink that's what happened and it worked out very well for me. But I can understand some people crying because they thought they were good and someone didn't stroke their ego for them.
"Just try and don't be a douchy teenager or even worse a pathetic 20smthyo who flames the inexped/weaker players just because you've got some major incapabilities irl.
Ya'll better get your shit together - thxbye "
But then its an even field if they're incompetent in game and you have are incompetent in life. Stop contradicting yourself jesus christ.
Your paragraph is all over the place obviously a legion twink that played wargames had 0 idea what was going on but acted cocky and got flamed.
[doublepost=1525455326,1525455281][/doublepost]
If he's toxic he's toxic
If he's a troll he's a troll
A troll means to joke around, a toxic player is trying to hit home with someone.
if you are a toxic troll you contradict yourself
Someone can be toxic AND a troll but can't be a toxic troll
your definition of trolling /= the actual definition
Make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/troll
Quack
Guest
Thats not the context its used today, examples being when Mvq dashed into the horde team people said he was trolling i.e being a troll.
If i said you're garbage then said I was trolling I am saying I am being sarcastic about you being garbage.
So either there's a second definition or everyone in the community uses it wrong
I can agree that the definition is flexible in-game.
My point is that "9 times out of 10" Iild posts, he is in fact being a toxic troll.
Quack
Guest
He's either being toxic or being a troll but a toxic troll contradicts itself
Toxic might as well be in the definition of trolling.
moyo
Veteran
Some very insightful points in this thread so far. I'd love to respond to each of them individually but then my post would likely be considered TL;DR. Ironically, it's often the people who most need to learn what's in TL;DR posts who ignore those posts. That means that an otherwise insightful post ends up 'preaching to the choir', more or less.
That said, here's my brief reply:
There's a meta re: behavior that I think needs to be explicitly stated: before you're a gamer, you're a human being. The two aren't mutually exclusive contexts. So, when you're gaming, don't leave your 'regular' human manners behind. And, if you haven't got any manners in the first place, well, that's going to be pretty apparent from the start.
So, for me, the question that deserves our attention isn't our trying to define 'toxicity'. Instead, we ought to be trying to define what kind of people we want to be. Because in my experience, one's gaming disposition and one's real life disposition aren't usually very different. The difference is that, in real life, we have more at stake and so we exercise a greater restraint on what we say and do.
Frankly, I see people behaving terribly, likely because they feel 'safe' behind a mic and 'net connection. There's no posturing here, just transparency: if people said and did things around me in real life, that they feel 'safe' doing and saying in game, I'd wreck their next few weeks with swift and brutal violence. Because, listen... if you wouldn't say that shit to someone's face, then shut the fuck up on discord, in game, etc.
Treat me online like you'd treat me in person. Otherwise, we can dispose of the veneer that's focused on 'what's toxicity' and get right to the heart of the matter: what's an asshole of a human being?
If a gamer/player/teammate makes a mistake, treat it the way you'd treat your mother, spouse, or child in real life if they made a mistake. And, if you'd treat them the way you flame/troll/go toxic in the ways that have been enumerate here, then it's not a question of 'whether' you've been toxic, or whether toxicity is acceptable along a spectrum of intensity. Instead, it's a question of why are you being an asshole of a human being?
If you want to eliminate this idea of 'toxicity' then get to the core of the matter, which is the character of the person. Because decent people don't treat other people like shit, and then rationalize it as a cultural norm within a gaming context.
So, yeah, that's the brief version: Don't be an asshole of a person and 'toxicity' becomes an irrelevant point of reference.
That said, here's my brief reply:
There's a meta re: behavior that I think needs to be explicitly stated: before you're a gamer, you're a human being. The two aren't mutually exclusive contexts. So, when you're gaming, don't leave your 'regular' human manners behind. And, if you haven't got any manners in the first place, well, that's going to be pretty apparent from the start.
So, for me, the question that deserves our attention isn't our trying to define 'toxicity'. Instead, we ought to be trying to define what kind of people we want to be. Because in my experience, one's gaming disposition and one's real life disposition aren't usually very different. The difference is that, in real life, we have more at stake and so we exercise a greater restraint on what we say and do.
Frankly, I see people behaving terribly, likely because they feel 'safe' behind a mic and 'net connection. There's no posturing here, just transparency: if people said and did things around me in real life, that they feel 'safe' doing and saying in game, I'd wreck their next few weeks with swift and brutal violence. Because, listen... if you wouldn't say that shit to someone's face, then shut the fuck up on discord, in game, etc.
Treat me online like you'd treat me in person. Otherwise, we can dispose of the veneer that's focused on 'what's toxicity' and get right to the heart of the matter: what's an asshole of a human being?
If a gamer/player/teammate makes a mistake, treat it the way you'd treat your mother, spouse, or child in real life if they made a mistake. And, if you'd treat them the way you flame/troll/go toxic in the ways that have been enumerate here, then it's not a question of 'whether' you've been toxic, or whether toxicity is acceptable along a spectrum of intensity. Instead, it's a question of why are you being an asshole of a human being?
If you want to eliminate this idea of 'toxicity' then get to the core of the matter, which is the character of the person. Because decent people don't treat other people like shit, and then rationalize it as a cultural norm within a gaming context.
So, yeah, that's the brief version: Don't be an asshole of a person and 'toxicity' becomes an irrelevant point of reference.
Quack
Guest
i do that with everyone dw man
sevenohseven
objectives or gtfo
logged in to add my 2 cents and also hold myself accountable for being toxic.
first off, im a dick. i accept it and usually tell people i meet first thing when we exchange btags. i also expect to win every game i play. more so if there are other twinks in my games. notice i said my games. i dont build super hero toons to “try hard” or “have fun playing”. winning is fun. i also dont afk games, like ever. if you break my cc, youre a piece of shit but accidents happen. once. when i call you out in bg chat ill try to explain why, but im a terrible typer and theres still flags to cap/return.i dont have time to hold your hand and explain anything. just do what you’re told.
if youve been told how bad you are by someone using terms like:
trashbag
clickclickclick
dont reque, like ever
duel me after the game. for deletes(my fav)
fgt
pile of shit
useless
dragon slaying trash
.. it was probably me.
ive been account silenced twice. 99’s dont ask me to play with them anymore.
first off, im a dick. i accept it and usually tell people i meet first thing when we exchange btags. i also expect to win every game i play. more so if there are other twinks in my games. notice i said my games. i dont build super hero toons to “try hard” or “have fun playing”. winning is fun. i also dont afk games, like ever. if you break my cc, youre a piece of shit but accidents happen. once. when i call you out in bg chat ill try to explain why, but im a terrible typer and theres still flags to cap/return.i dont have time to hold your hand and explain anything. just do what you’re told.
if youve been told how bad you are by someone using terms like:
trashbag
clickclickclick
dont reque, like ever
duel me after the game. for deletes(my fav)
fgt
pile of shit
useless
dragon slaying trash
.. it was probably me.
ive been account silenced twice. 99’s dont ask me to play with them anymore.
moyo
Veteran
My comment was a general reflection on the topic, not a personal callout. Just want that to be clear so you don't think I was talking to you specifically
[doublepost=1525457447,1525457095][/doublepost]
It actually goes even deeper than that:
Dark Tetrad of Personality Traits
https://www.sott.net/article/266289...Everyday-sadists-take-pleasure-in-others-pain
Online Trolls are Psychopaths and/or Sadists
https://www.sott.net/article/274076...e-psychopaths-and-sadists-psychologists-claim
Let the rationalization, minimization, denial, and blame begin....
Anonymous
Guest
"But then its an even field if they're incompetent in game and you have are incompetent in life. Stop contradicting yourself jesus christ."
Are you a gurl, you've got something between your legs dangling, because this logic is FLAWED.
My boss (most likely) has a messed up life as he is as asocial as one can possibly be, frankly he is an asshole on a personal level.
We were having christmas dinner at a respectable Italian restaurant within the firm. Then there was a hair on my bosses risotto and he went fucking nuts on the waitress(she couldn't take it and crying left without saying a word to the boss) who wasn't even responsible, it was the chefs fault.
Wasn't his only error on a interpersonally level...
When it comes to business on the other hand he just determines whether you're capable or not, whether you fit in or not. If you're shit, then you don't even get past job-interview. However, if you manage to pass, he's just your normal everyday boss who measures your worth towards the firm on a OBJECTIVE level. If you screw up some time, he tells formally tells you what to do and what no to, because his firm and ultimately his money is on the line.
Oh and by the way, he is by far the most successful accountant in our canton.
So, regardless of what your (single)mom told ya
-->Business(wow)-incompetence ≠ RL-incompetence assuming it's on an emotional and not cognitive level.
Self explanatory that a burger flipper(no offense, generalizing there) doesn't turn into (never will imo) a FC let's say of the likes of Ripduck or HB, because they don't have the cognitive capabilities it takes. Logical, right?
And please, spare me with another error, already had a session of typeracer this noon, my fingers hurt
So much to "contradicting yourself"
thx bye
Anonymous
Guest
Quack, well said.
My WoW perspective is a bit different. The more one socializes and/or interacts w/ other players the more your ego will get involved and you will become what I refer to as a, "gameboy mental". I only play WoW because it is an escape/release for me and allows me to deal w/ my "tenacious personality aspects" from being a competitive athlete most of my life. When I make mistakes in-game I have no one to blame but myself and I laugh it off.
I am a solo player for the most part and self-sufficient for my in-game needs. My only interest in WoW is playing lowbie RBG's. Do I get "pissed" in bgs, yes I do. But not so much against other players, but against blizziod. All of WoW PVE and PVP aspects are created and controlled exclusively by blizziod. Why get upset w/ other players when most of the game frustrations are created by blizziod. I don't expect them (blizz} to do everything perfectly, but I do expect them to be honest w/ their customers. When bg's are totally dominated my melee types and premade groups. Don't tell your player/customers you strive for, "balance" when you keep creating imbalance.
Finally, you are going to see and experience all kinds of personalities, skill levels, and egos in a game like WoW. For my purposes, I minimize my interaction and dependency on others, and understand the controlling element of the game.
My WoW perspective is a bit different. The more one socializes and/or interacts w/ other players the more your ego will get involved and you will become what I refer to as a, "gameboy mental". I only play WoW because it is an escape/release for me and allows me to deal w/ my "tenacious personality aspects" from being a competitive athlete most of my life. When I make mistakes in-game I have no one to blame but myself and I laugh it off.
I am a solo player for the most part and self-sufficient for my in-game needs. My only interest in WoW is playing lowbie RBG's. Do I get "pissed" in bgs, yes I do. But not so much against other players, but against blizziod. All of WoW PVE and PVP aspects are created and controlled exclusively by blizziod. Why get upset w/ other players when most of the game frustrations are created by blizziod. I don't expect them (blizz} to do everything perfectly, but I do expect them to be honest w/ their customers. When bg's are totally dominated my melee types and premade groups. Don't tell your player/customers you strive for, "balance" when you keep creating imbalance.
Finally, you are going to see and experience all kinds of personalities, skill levels, and egos in a game like WoW. For my purposes, I minimize my interaction and dependency on others, and understand the controlling element of the game.
Quack
Guest
https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/autism-quiz/"But then its an even field if they're incompetent in game and you have are incompetent in life. Stop contradicting yourself jesus christ."
Are you a gurl, you've got something between your legs dangling, because this logic is FLAWED.
My boss (most likely) has a messed up life as he is as asocial as one can possibly be, frankly he is an asshole on a personal level.
We were having christmas dinner at a respectable Italian restaurant within the firm. Then there was a hair on my bosses risotto and he went fucking nuts on the waitress(she couldn't take it and crying left without saying a word to the boss) who wasn't even responsible, it was the chefs fault.
Wasn't his only error on a interpersonally level...
When it comes to business on the other hand he just determines whether you're capable or not, whether you fit in or not. If you're shit, then you don't even get past job-interview. However, if you manage to pass, he's just your normal everyday boss who measures your worth towards the firm on a OBJECTIVE level. If you screw up some time, he tells formally tells you what to do and what no to, because his firm and ultimately his money is on the line.
Oh and by the way, he is by far the most successful accountant in our canton.
So, regardless of what your (single)mom told ya
-->Business(wow)-incompetence ≠ RL-incompetence assuming it's on an emotional and not cognitive level.
Self explanatory that a burger flipper(no offense, generalizing there) doesn't turn into (never will imo) a FC let's say of the likes of Ripduck or HB, because they don't have the cognitive capabilities it takes. Logical, right?
And please, spare me with another error, already had a session of typeracer this noon, my fingers hurt
So much to "contradicting yourself"
thx bye
here u go man
Bestworld
MBA
Honestly when it comes to toxicity, I believe it's become a very vague and broad term. "that player said something, or did something that upset me". That's the definition of toxic right now. At least that's the vibe I'm getting. What people take to heart is very different from person to person, and some people are more hardened than others, but you should really assess the situation before categorizing words as an insult and leave it at that. What happened? Why was I criticized? (criticism isn't an insult btw, if that's your mentality, then you seriously have something to work on). If you care to learn, then you will improve insanely fast. Likewise, people should refrain from just spouting anything that has no meaning behind it, other than obvious slander. "You're bad" for instance. That doesn't help either individual. That doesn't stop you from being tilted, and in certain cases, the individual being called bad for what they might think is "for no reason at all", could just end up being uncooperative after that. Instead, ask them a quick question as to why they did what they did. Question their action to create self-awareness. Maybe it was simply a matter of 2 minds not being on the same page? One was thinking of one play, and the other of another? Communication.
I know that a lot of individuals also get tilted because "people won't listen". But the other way around, do you listen as well? Idc if you're 1300, glad, rank 1 or whatever. If we can't have rational arguments for doing this or that, but you come off as a dictator and think that your actions alone is the correct choice, and that alone, and refuse to listen yourself, then that's no better. Especially if you then become like a 5 year old that's trying to revolt because mom and dad didn't wanna give you that extra piece of candy even though you told them to give it to you.
What I would say is toxic though in context to what have been mentioned in previous posts, is people who are way too full of themselves. I.e. doesn't want to play with 'X' people, or leave because of 'Y' reason. That literally just kills the game for everyone else. Especially on EU where people are already hard to come by as it is.
Teams are unfair? Voice your opinion.
Didn't like the choices your team made? Voice your opinion.
Sitting like a sulking millenial and think the world revolves around you is so fucking retarded. Everyone tilts, but everyone handle it differently. I would like to see certain people take their mentality with them irl and see what happens. Spoiler alert, reality will hit you harder than a fucking truck - real fast.
In reality, it's not that hard to give pointers while keeping a calm atmosphere. If your vocabulary consists of words like, "lol bad", then you should probably stop sniffing all that glue in elementary school.
Friends will always have banter.
I know that a lot of individuals also get tilted because "people won't listen". But the other way around, do you listen as well? Idc if you're 1300, glad, rank 1 or whatever. If we can't have rational arguments for doing this or that, but you come off as a dictator and think that your actions alone is the correct choice, and that alone, and refuse to listen yourself, then that's no better. Especially if you then become like a 5 year old that's trying to revolt because mom and dad didn't wanna give you that extra piece of candy even though you told them to give it to you.
What I would say is toxic though in context to what have been mentioned in previous posts, is people who are way too full of themselves. I.e. doesn't want to play with 'X' people, or leave because of 'Y' reason. That literally just kills the game for everyone else. Especially on EU where people are already hard to come by as it is.
Teams are unfair? Voice your opinion.
Didn't like the choices your team made? Voice your opinion.
Sitting like a sulking millenial and think the world revolves around you is so fucking retarded. Everyone tilts, but everyone handle it differently. I would like to see certain people take their mentality with them irl and see what happens. Spoiler alert, reality will hit you harder than a fucking truck - real fast.
In reality, it's not that hard to give pointers while keeping a calm atmosphere. If your vocabulary consists of words like, "lol bad", then you should probably stop sniffing all that glue in elementary school.
Friends will always have banter.
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