There is no such thing as "Pool Stealing"

[muchies]

RNG is RNG pool stealing does exist in a way but not really.



Such as this...



when you fish in a pool it has a set loot:

Tasty fish, Keefer's 2nd then another Tasty fish.



so if you cast 1st then some one else jumps into the pool then they get the keefer's fish so they essentially stole your keefer's fish. If they had not stopped to cast their line then they would not have gotten it. (this has happened in the 19 twink guild i was in before guy starts fishing in a pool another guy(whom is apart of the same guild) comes in and casts in same pool friend gets junk guildie gets LFH). It happens my friend raged since he really did need it the other guy was not well geared.

Loot is generated when the loot window comes up, it is not predetermined.

 

[Preeztess]

Also, I don't think you can get junk from pools.

 

[Aradiel]

When I said junk, I meant non tasty and non rare fish. Fish like kelp/eels/firefin. Those are fished from pools.

 

[Playroom]

People are misinterpreting my image with the pool, and its my clearly my fault for not explaining it well, I'll take that.

We both agree the fish is determined when looting it, its not there when the pool spawns - there are just 3-5 fishes to be caught and each one could potentially be an angelfish.



Also fishing skill does decrease the time needed to catch a fish, as multiple GMs have told me one of which did so just now:

http://twinksanddrinks.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/gmtalksfish.jpg



Then theres the more frequent pool spawning before the contest is up, what part doesn't make sense to you? People that visit the contest just for winning it, will leave once someone has won, decreasing the number of pools that spawn/despawn in a given amount of time. Also, some pools in inaccessible locations will stay there until they naturally despawn, when they could have been fished by a high level and caused a new pool spawning in a location we can reach. If you fish weekly, you'll see for yourself that in the first 20 minute pools just constantly spawn behind you as you run along the shore, whereas after the contest is over, its a pretty rare occurrence - I'm sure a ton of people are able to back this up from personal experience.



I don't talk bollocks and if I cross into the realm of urban legend, I will always state so.

Finally I just have to say to that pool stealing is only effective when theres unorganized fishing going on, if people are grouped and sorted into areas then by all means thats the way to go!

 

[Aradiel]

http://twinksanddrin...gmtalksfish.jpg in no way suggests that higher skill means faster catch time. I have fished at max level and have seen the bobber unmoved during the entire duration of the cast time. I even click it just before sometimes, incase I missed it. It usually moves at around 50-75% complete. In my experience skill level does not have any effect on catch time. Also, the time wasted putting on lures is time you won't be casting.

 

[Shft]

At 375 skill with +5 line on a strong pole, along with +100 lure, and rumseys lager, I have never noticed any difference when fishing from a pool.

 

[Preeztess]

Also fishing skill does decrease the time needed to catch a fish, as multiple GMs have told me one of which did so just now:

http://twinksanddrin...gmtalksfish.jpg

Gonna go with no on that one.

 

[Playroom]

If it makes easier on you, my original question was:

"I want to know whether a player's fishing skill affects the time taken for a fish to bait while casting. For example if two identical characters, one with a skill of 1 and the other with a skill of 400, fish in the same zone under the same conditions. Will the one with a higher skill see faster catches?"



I've had the same positive answer from multiple sources. I'm also going to ask the same question on the forums in a bit... see what more valid sources come up with.



Edit: Btw, this isn't like "I'm right and you're wrong and thats how the world is and u cant stfu if you disagree!" I'm just feeling like defending this statement coz thats how I came to know things and what I've been told from people of 'higher authority' ;p I'm now waiting for a forum reply from some1 who's word is worth something.

 

[pinochet]

ninjaing does spawn pools faster. read the post that kale made earlier in the thread - it's a good one, and no one commented on it. you want to cast in a pool that you know has >1 casts in it, whether you're the ninja-er or the original pool fisher



i personally accomplish this by fishing with a small group of other players in a predetermined area. this way we can keep track of all of the spawns at all times, and if there is not a spawn within a 1 minimap range, we will both fish the same node until we know that there is a danger of there being <1 cast left in it, at which point someone gets up and moves to a different minimap vector in order to save time. you want us to believe that player X should instead be waiting in a different minimap vector while player Y just fishes out the pool - this is not the most optimal way to do it



like several people have pointed out, showing up to ninja someone's pool and fishing it out to completion is not the most efficient way to do things for the entire group. but you don't have to do it that way. there's nothing forcing either/any player to stick around to a pool's completion

I did read that post and it is incorrect in its conclusion. Ninjaing does not increase speed of spawning under any circumstances. Under the most favorable circumstances, including no wasted casts, which that post does assume, it at best equals non-ninja spawn times.



Regardless how many people fish per pool, there is one cast per person going around. Whether they stick those casts in the same pool or not, the global rate of fish extraction is the same. It doesn't matter how many pools are being fished at once, every 4th (or so) cast finishes a pool and spawns another.



The globally efficient fishing strategy is the one that minimizes running distance, and that strategy is partitioning.

 

[Ðoom]

Stealing fish = no nice

leaving the pool = nice

"IMO i hate people who steal the fish in my pool i think they're sel"fish" jerks who doesn't deserve getting the Fishing hat."







-Hunt

 

[yasueh]

When the number of spawns for pools/mobs/nodes is above a certain number, then they will respawn on a timer up until an upper limit.



For spawns that are used for quests (and the fishing comp), when the number of active spawns is reduced below a certain limit, then forced respawning kicks in, and any spawn that is removed from that point on, will instantly be replaced elsewhere.



This is a fundamental mechanic of spawning, that ensures that there are always enough spawns available to match the number of players.



Saying that spawns happen faster with more fishers present is completely irrelevant, when they are being removed just as fast. What matters is how the number of spawns present affects the average distance between them, and therefore the average travelling time between them.



Because the number of pools present will actually increase as the number farming them decreases, due to additional pools above the forced respawn limit starting to appear on their timers, as pools are left unfished, the average travelling time between pools will decrease as players leave the competition.



'Pool stealing' when they are actually, on average, closer together, and more numerous, is just plain stupid.

 

[yasueh]

Edit: Btw, this isn't like "I'm right and you're wrong and thats how the world is and u cant stfu if you disagree!" I'm just feeling like defending this statement coz thats how I came to know things and what I've been told from people of 'higher authority' ;p I'm now waiting for a forum reply from some1 who's word is worth something.

You have not defended your statements in the slightest.



You have not made one single attempt to provide a counter argument to anything that anyone has said, most likely because you are incapable of understanding it, or constructing the counter to it.



Instead both you and Cotus have attacked the people who have made counter arguments, attacked some completely unrelated part of their posts, or simply deferred to higher 'authorities', when that authority has not provided anything resembling a valid argument either. Just because someone has posted a statement on forums/blogs, does not make it true, regardless of who they may be. The truth of the statement comes from also posting the supporting evidence, and the method by which it was obtained, so that anyone may prove the statement to be true or false themselves.



There is a very big difference between supporting the beliefs of others, because of their popularity, and supporting the beliefs of others, because you have actually taken the time to understand why they come to have them.



Neither a person's position nor their popularity confer them with credibility.

 

[C O T U S]

i didn't attack anybody, shhhhhhhh. i agree with a bunch of the stuff that has been posted so far, particularly kale and pinobucket's posts

 

[Geist]

I'd stay away from any pool I'm fishing in...cause those pools don't have shit for rare fish in them.

qft =/

 

[yasueh]

Yes, you go ahead and flip-flop your position on the matter in order to appear reasonable. Lets not forget how you started out:

i'm tired of the endless noobs, idiots, and kids in this bracket perpetuating blatantly false information

Followed by more personal attacks, including:

this would actually involve thinking multiple steps ahead though, which naturally is not an option for world of warcraft communities.

i guess people are just as dumb in europe as they are in the good ol' USA!

i made this thread so that all the people who i know secretly think to themselves that pool stealing is clearly the most optimal strategy for the STV fishing contest can now, with a clear conscience, use this method to optimize their time while fishing for their hats, and not feel bad when other morons accuse them of unethical behavior

I think what everyone else will agree upon, is that through your inability to provide any evidence to support your opinion, it should be considered wrong, and therefore does not provide any justification for the kind of insults you have made.



If you keep on abusing your position in this community in an attempt to excuse your obnoxious behaviour, I will make use of my position within it to have you removed, just as Kahr soon will be.

 

[C O T U S]

good lord, shut up already. i've provided plenty of evidence to support my position - you just don't agree with it. that's fine. and i wouldn't characterize you as a "noob", an "idiot", or a "kid", so don't worry about being lumped in with those categories



you pulled out an insult that i specifically threw at some guy who was too stupid to figure out that i was being facetious. i'm sorry, but it's not my fault that other people are stupid. it just isn't. i can defend myself against dumb people on the internet however i see fit, just like i defend myself against dumb people in real life however i see fit



if you start "banning" people from the channel because you don't personally like them, we will just take the mods and edit them so they work for different channels as well. i already think that this would be a good idea. there's no reason why we can't have a WSG-specific channel, AB-specific channel, random dungeon specific channel, general chat specific channel, etc etc

 

[Kincaide]

if you start "banning" people from the channel because you don't personally like them, we will just take the mods and edit them so they work for different channels as well.

I'm just curious here... who is 'we'?

 

[yasueh]

I had no intention of adding any features to the addon that would allow it to be used to ban people from the channel, until the 'we' approached me requesting that feature.



However, I am in agreement with them that it is a much needed feature. Those who are incapable of showing respect to anyone outside their own little clique of elitists, on account of them being 'a "noob", an "idiot", or a "kid"' are those that the rest of us can do without.



Being a better player than most will not excuse you from showing the same standards of behaviour as any decent person should be expected to show to another. The noobs, idiots and kids are more than welcome in this community. A-holes most certainly are not.



And for the record, Cotus, I was the one who spoke out against pool stealing in F2P chat, at the beginning of the tournament yesterday, which was immediately followed by you making this thread. You were perfectly happy to characterise me as 'a "noob", an "idiot", or a "kid"' when you started it.

 

[Preeztess]

I am fascinated by the faster fishing/higher level argument and intend to test this theory today or tomorrow.



I will set up two computers, both running wow and a fishing bot. (Which instantly loots and re-casts.)



One toon will be a level 1 fishing, the other a level 375 with lures.



I will fish for 60 minutes, and compare quantity of things caught. My hyposthesis is that they will both be statistically the same. (+/- 2%)

 

[Sweetsydney]

Let's not forget one thing, passing a pool that someone is already fishing in is just plain courteous. Who knows, they may just return the favor down the beach.