US The Official Twink Cup 2019 - Powered by ResurgentESB

[Fancy]

Hey blackout I hope you have been well, tbh with everything that has transpired I honestly believe it’s not worth putting the effort needed to completing this tourney.

Too many people wanting things their way and not enough people willing to compromise to make it work without significant backlash.

Only reason I say this is because I think your time is better spent doing other things that have more meaning to your life.

Twinks aren’t what they used to be....

This is how I view it from over a decade of xp playing twinks...

Joshy, drop 1k into the TC and let blackout say these are the rules get over it.

 

[Blackout]

I'm not saying you personally should pony up a prize pool. Rather, I'm saying that the organization putting on a competition is usually the one also providing the prize. This gives them the leverage to set rules. At least this is how it works in more traditional sports

Asking the community to provide the prize pool while also providing the rules inverts that power dynamic. Which part of why things seem a bit out of control. You have no leverage to tell people to either accept the rules as written or fuck off. You need them.

I'm not trying to dog on you or tell you to personally front a prize pool. Just that the incentives are different in a "for fun" tournament and a "for money" tournament and perhaps expectations should be adjusted accordingly

I take your points, although there is logic to them i'd have to agree to disagree. In fear of getting into a debate (which is something I don't want to do) organisations that lay down money to front prize pools usually source their money from sponsors and crowdfunding. DotA tournaments, those that reach over 18 million year in year out is crowdfunded by the community, both fans and players alike. I would have thought that a community such as this, that is here out of choice due to their love for the "community" and "play style" and "competition" would be very willing and eager to contribute in what ever ways they can that is within their means. Free is within everybody's means.

A tournament such as the Twink Cup, due to how niche it is currently makes it impossible to get sponsors interested in laying down money for a prize pool in exchange for promotion (as that is how they benefit from fronting cash).

If people want to participate in any event, they will abide by the rules that are set. Rules are not something that are a structural aftermath from a tangible incentive, which in this case money.

If people really cared about the Twink Cup, and wanted to see it succeed, they would support me when I do my best to make things possible and provide people the ability to help incentivise and hype up the event for free.

We will just have to see how it goes, if four teams do not sign up then the event is extremely unlikely to go ahead.

 

[Livingforce]

Joshy, drop 1k into the TC and let blackout say these are the rules get over it.

Ha! Would of been a easier option, not trying to cater the rules for multiple guilds. Just causes unnecessary headaches.
[doublepost=1559911951,1559911805][/doublepost]

I'd donate if @Livingforce did a live stream of a "Shrimp on the barbie"

HA! Inc stream setup...

@Fancy want to come help me setup tomorrowz???
[doublepost=1559912262][/doublepost]

I take your points, although there is logic to them i'd have to agree to disagree. In fear of getting into a debate (which is something I don't want to do) organisations that lay down money to front prize pools usually source their money from sponsors and crowdfunding. DotA tournaments, those that reach over 18 million year in year out is crowdfunded by the community, both fans and players alike. I would have thought that a community such as this, that is here out of choice due to their love for the "community" and "play style" and "competition" would be very willing and eager to contribute in what ever ways they can that is within their means. Free is within everybody's means.

A tournament such as the Twink Cup, due to how niche it is currently makes it impossible to get sponsors interested in laying down money for a prize pool in exchange for promotion (as that is how they benefit from fronting cash).

If people want to participate in any event, they will abide by the rules that are set. Rules are not something that are a structural aftermath from a tangible incentive, which in this case money.

If people really cared about the Twink Cup, and wanted to see it succeed, they would support me when I do my best to make things possible and provide people the ability to help incentivise and hype up the event for free.

We will just have to see how it goes, if four teams do not sign up then the event is extremely unlikely to go ahead.

Your level headed patience is definitely not appreciated by the masses as much as it should be.

The fact of the matter is people are bitches and if the rules aren’t the way they like it. People whing, if they really wanted to compete. They’d rock up and play, as previously mentioned it would of been easier if you and a couple of others not in a team to come up with the rules and people rock up and play.

 

[Fancy]

HA! Inc stream setup...

@Fancy want to come help me setup tomorrowz???

If there is some quality steak I'm in lmk.

 

[Livingforce]

Ha! Would of been a easier option, not trying to cater the rules for multiple guilds. Just causes unnecessary headaches.
[doublepost=1559911951,1559911805][/doublepost]
HA! Inc stream setup...

@Fancy want to come help me setup tomorrowz???
[doublepost=1559912262][/doublepost]
Your level headed patience is definitely not as appreciated by the masses as much as it should be.

The fact of the matter is people are bitches and if the rules aren’t the way they like it. People whing, if they really wanted to compete. They’d rock up and play, as previously mentioned it would of been easier if you and a couple of others not in a team to come up with the rules and people rock up and play.

Remember we dealn.

If there is some quality steak I'm in lmk.

hey you still owe me for that pizza I bought u agesss ago, u should be slave working for me

 

[Quackbesteu]

I take your points, although there is logic to them i'd have to agree to disagree. In fear of getting into a debate (which is something I don't want to do) organisations that lay down money to front prize pools usually source their money from sponsors and crowdfunding. DotA tournaments, those that reach over 18 million year in year out is crowdfunded by the community, both fans and players alike. I would have thought that a community such as this, that is here out of choice due to their love for the "community" and "play style" and "competition" would be very willing and eager to contribute in what ever ways they can that is within their means. Free is within everybody's means.

A tournament such as the Twink Cup, due to how niche it is currently makes it impossible to get sponsors interested in laying down money for a prize pool in exchange for promotion (as that is how they benefit from fronting cash).

If people want to participate in any event, they will abide by the rules that are set. Rules are not something that are a structural aftermath from a tangible incentive, which in this case money.

If people really cared about the Twink Cup, and wanted to see it succeed, they would support me when I do my best to make things possible and provide people the ability to help incentivise and hype up the event for free.

We will just have to see how it goes, if four teams do not sign up then the event is extremely unlikely to go ahead.

Though I appreciate you hosting twink cup this year there is a lot of things I feel like you are either not aware of or are just ignoring.

"I would have thought that a community such as this, that is here out of choice due to their love for the community and play style and competition would be very willing and eager to contribute in what ever ways they can that is within their means."

If you said this back in 2016 or maybe even back in early 2017, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However now the community consists of players who refuse to move on, that the game currently is not only terrible but literally unplayable. I'm aware people have probably been saying this from Cata, but as the player base for both 19s and WoW has deteriorated so has the sense of competition for 19s and WoW alike. The only players that will take part in this twink cup are those that :
A) Are LSN and GSC that just dislike each other which is fully understandable.
B) People who straight up are delirious and think that the Twink Cup will be competitive overall when clearly anyone who has 2 eyes and 2 IQ points to rub together can see exactly how its going to go.
C) People who have nothing else in life and find this expansion 'fun'.
This is not really a direct flame at anyone, but a reality. I personally dislike 95% of the community evenly so I'm not really firing shots at anyone.

"If people really cared about the Twink Cup, and wanted to see it succeed, they would support me when I do my best to make things possible and provide people the ability to help incentivise and hype up the event for free."

I'm glad you said this. "If people really cared".
People don't really care about the twink cup this year, as I've said already everyone can already see the outcome of it as it is if you have been keeping up to date with the wargames going on and the changes guilds have made since last year.
I appreciate you trying a lot even though ofc it benefits both you and the twink cup scene, you're still out here making the effort so it should be appreciated more by the community.
Having said all of that, I think it's laughable that people think this Twink Cup will succeed. There is too many problems in the twink scene today that won't allow you to host a tournament like this until they are undone or fixed.
If you even look at the twink scene today from a non-bias point of view, I think the majority if not all of you would agree with the points I'm making.

HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT
GL to your group Blackout hosting it I really hope it does benefit you guys a lot as this has clearly been a headache and a mess since day 1.
And a big good luck and God bless to every team competing, should be a funny event if nothing else.

 

[Fancy]

hey you still owe me for that pizza I bought u agesss ago, u should be slave working for me

Send me an address and I'll send you pizza rn

 

[Chops]

I take your points, although there is logic to them i'd have to agree to disagree. In fear of getting into a debate (which is something I don't want to do) organisations that lay down money to front prize pools usually source their money from sponsors and crowdfunding. DotA tournaments, those that reach over 18 million year in year out is crowdfunded by the community, both fans and players alike. I would have thought that a community such as this, that is here out of choice due to their love for the "community" and "play style" and "competition" would be very willing and eager to contribute in what ever ways they can that is within their means. Free is within everybody's means.

A tournament such as the Twink Cup, due to how niche it is currently makes it impossible to get sponsors interested in laying down money for a prize pool in exchange for promotion (as that is how they benefit from fronting cash).

If people want to participate in any event, they will abide by the rules that are set. Rules are not something that are a structural aftermath from a tangible incentive, which in this case money.

If people really cared about the Twink Cup, and wanted to see it succeed, they would support me when I do my best to make things possible and provide people the ability to help incentivise and hype up the event for free.

We will just have to see how it goes, if four teams do not sign up then the event is extremely unlikely to go ahead.

I did a poor job of articulating my point and didn't mean to make it seem like I was attacking or blaming you or RESB.

It's just that 8.1.5 really left everyone twisting in the wind and kinda killed what seemed like a true regrowth of the twinking community. People are (justifiably) upset and discouraged. Reading the forums, alot of people are downright nihilistic about twinking.

So it's tough to convince people to care about a tournament when it seems like the whole scene is dying and that cynical, nihilistic attitude is likely to take hold in the tournament because "hey fuck it, twinking is dead". My point was that a preemptive prize package would have given people a reason to care. I wanna stress that this isn't your fault or responsibility. There's no way you guys could have prepared for this. but it is maybe something to consider in the future.

@Quackbesteu hit it on the head.

Combined with a few genuine misfires in communication and management, things spiraled.

I do wish you all the best. I genuinely look forward to watching this and hope that it can be ironed out in time.

 

[Bestworld]

Though I appreciate you hosting twink cup this year there is a lot of things I feel like you are either not aware of or are just ignoring.

"I would have thought that a community such as this, that is here out of choice due to their love for the community and play style and competition would be very willing and eager to contribute in what ever ways they can that is within their means."

If you said this back in 2016 or maybe even back in early 2017, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However now the community consists of players who refuse to move on, that the game currently is not only terrible but literally unplayable. I'm aware people have probably been saying this from Cata, but as the player base for both 19s and WoW has deteriorated so has the sense of competition for 19s and WoW alike. The only players that will take part in this twink cup are those that :
A) Are LSN and GSC that just dislike each other which is fully understandable.
B) People who straight up are delirious and think that the Twink Cup will be competitive overall when clearly anyone who has 2 eyes and 2 IQ points to rub together can see exactly how its going to go.
C) People who have nothing else in life and find this expansion 'fun'.
This is not really a direct flame at anyone, but a reality. I personally dislike 95% of the community evenly so I'm not really firing shots at anyone.

"If people really cared about the Twink Cup, and wanted to see it succeed, they would support me when I do my best to make things possible and provide people the ability to help incentivise and hype up the event for free."

I'm glad you said this. "If people really cared".
People don't really care about the twink cup this year, as I've said already everyone can already see the outcome of it as it is if you have been keeping up to date with the wargames going on and the changes guilds have made since last year.
I appreciate you trying a lot even though ofc it benefits both you and the twink cup scene, you're still out here making the effort so it should be appreciated more by the community.
Having said all of that, I think it's laughable that people think this Twink Cup will succeed. There is too many problems in the twink scene today that won't allow you to host a tournament like this until they are undone or fixed.
If you even look at the twink scene today from a non-bias point of view, I think the majority if not all of you would agree with the points I'm making.

HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT
GL to your group Blackout hosting it I really hope it does benefit you guys a lot as this has clearly been a headache and a mess since day 1.
And a big good luck and God bless to every team competing, should be a funny event if nothing else.

Generally a lot of problems this year unfortunately. Not necessarily in terms of how the event is being structured (rules and dates being some of the main concerns for some participants), but simply because of how the game is right now.

A stupid fucking thing is, horde zerker and leaf hut not giving proper LoS. Another stupid fucking thing is ally roof not providing LoS whatsoever either. This should have been fixed ages ago and is extremely retarded, and I can see why this could frustrate a lot of players.

Another thing that might concern a lot of people is the current RNG epic grind. With gear mattering again, this is a huge factor. If you get unlucky on your main twink(s), then it's a huge "FeelsBadMan". But again, some GF'd items are still really good. Some classes aren't affected by this change at all, or barely. Another note is that if you REALLY care, then you can spam reroll until you get what you desire. Is it fun? No. Is it annoying? Yes. BUT, it's still just a grind when it comes down to it. People have been spam rerolling toons to get what they want/need. These people care. I could personally be biased on this particular topic, because I got fairly lucky on my main twink, all things considered. Gearing has always switched things up, but now it's edging towards the extreme.

With that said, I also see some positive points with BFA twinking. The current gearing system also allows people to roll practically any class they want, and provides some diversity between people's characters. Gearing is no longer 100% cookie cutter aside from main BiS pieces. The current gearing system could also potentially make classes that needed that little extra gear scaling to be viable viable.

Gear mattering overall also means customization. Being able to gear for mid, objective 1v1's, FC'ing and what have you, is a cool and fun aspect overall that helps you min-max your gameplay in a way you don't see outside of twinking.

Another positive thing I see in BFA twinking is the current meta. Objectives mattering more, and mid mattering less. Personally, I see this as a positive thing. Heavy mid clashes often turns out to be super one-sided, and less interesting. Objective plays offers a lot of creativity and opens up for some individual plays that become rather noticeable. Sets some players apart. I believe every monkey can do 3-2-1-go aimed shot, double surge, earth shock in mid. Shouldn't be rocket science.

tldr;

1) Stupid-ass LoS issues = negative game impact.
2) RNG epics can be annoying and/or #feelsbad if unlucky on mains.
3) RNG epics can also be a good thing. Now everyone can reroll whatever the fuck they want and grind what they want.
4) Gear mattering = customization.
5) Current meta makes for more interesting games.

Conclusion: A lot of annoying things in BFA, but also some enjoyable aspects that I believe can make the TC an enjoyable experience for both participants and spectators. The main factor right now are the people's disinterest, and not so much the game itself and the problems raised about current TC dates and rule-set.

 

[Bestworld]

1) Shouldn't even be played then.
2) Agreed
3) Disagree it's dumb and the only epics that should be in the game for 19s are the BoE farm-able ones not Quests unless you can 'redo' the quest on a weekly/daily basis.
4) Customization for gear hasn't existed since Cata maybe MoP if ur gonna cheese it. WoD Legion and BFA there's been BiS and non BiS either you can understand that or you can't, I can't explain it to you.
5) I disagree I dislike the meta currently but I also feel like people aren't play the best comp.

I don't think there is ANY enjoyable aspects when I think about it that a different expac didn't offer a better version of. This last point about peoples disinterest I don't want to address as it'll come across as flame. So I won't comment on it.

Sure, there's been better expansions, I don't deny that. However, that doesn't mean that you can't find some good things that the current expansion provides. Going from Legion templates and to having my "hard earned" gear matter again was a long awaited change for me, personally. I think that gearing and character customization is a core essence in an MMO (which wow ultimately is).

Customization, druids generally tend to have different gear sets. This is undeniable. 1 set for mid, 1 set for objective 1v1, maybe multiple sets for fc'ing (one for cross and early non-stack, one for when stacks hit). A lot of dps classes have (or should have) set for mid and set for EFC goes/openers/all-ins at the bare minimum, where some classes will also have more sets depending on their objective. Can you make a set that kinda does okay in all aspects? Yes. Will it be proper min-max'ed? No.

Different meta, different playstyles, it'll always be subjective if one party enjoys it or doesn't. I for one don't like the mid stomp meta.

 

[Skeezin]

@Quackbesteu please calm down

 

[Shr3d]

I think also the willingness of certain teams to cheat and not pursue a fair competition has put a bad taste in other teams mouths.

Some people play the game for competition and others don’t I guess.

 

[Vet]

I think also the willingness of certain teams to cheat and not pursue a fair competition has put a bad taste in other teams mouths.

Some people play the game for competition and others don’t I guess.

Didn’t LSN have ripduck record our comms and then give it to them afterwards?

 

[Shr3d]

No I don’t believe he did.

 

[Scope]

couldnt wait to delete hearthstone and rez on top of roof when a gauntlet happened :/

 

[Vet]

No I don’t believe he did.

I mean it happened so guess it doesn’t really matter what you believe.

 

[Shr3d]

Thank you for your concern member vet.

 

[Scope]

MeMbEr VeT, tHaNk YoU

 

[Shr3d]

I think it’s good that the TC is being cancelled, it will teach a lot of bad pvpers some respect.

 

[Scope]

ThAnK yOu MeMbEr Es AyCh Ar NuMbEr ThReE dEe, FoR yOuR iNpUt, VeRy InFo