[The Great] Rogue Off Hand Weapon Debate!

Is Wing Blade a good off hand weapon?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I know this is a voting thread but I'd still give my reasons for my choices.



Because offhand DPS is reduced by 50%, the DPS of your offhand is worth 50% less (the extra miss chance from dual wielding also applies to your mainhand and all stats that are applied to it, so there's no difference there).



The [ITEM]Wingblade[/ITEM] has the highest DPS of any of the weapons, and the best stats too. Compared to the [ITEM]Cruel Barb[/ITEM] there's 0.2 more DPS and 1 more stats (12 AP = 6 points, 5 agi + 2 sta = 7 points).



Wingblade used to simply be underestimated because it was rather slow, and had stamina rather than full offensive stats. People like to ignore the fact that offhand DPS still DOES help, but not as much as mainhand DPS.

Before 3.09 (I think) dodge was still solid, but since it was nerfed the focus on avoidance faded, and [ITEM]Thief's Blade[/ITEM] lost its appeal. Yes, it's still good, but not the best anymore. 14.4 is 0.6 under Cruel Barb and 1.3 under Wingblade. That does add up, even if it still has the best stats (shared with Wingblade) and great speed.



Two things that are still depatable, are weapon speed and the proc rate of the [ITEM]Battleworn Thrash Blade[/ITEM]. People say pushback on casting is still a factor, so faster is better- but how much? Would you say 0.5 faster is worth 2 agility? Can anyone put a number on it :confused: Not as far as I know.



The Thrash Blade has a proc that will cause the main hand to get an instant extra attack. Using a Shadowfang in your main hand this can add up pretty hard. But the proc rate is completely unknown. People have gotten results ranging from 3% to 7%. Given these numbers, the proc could be the equivalent of about 12 agility, making it the best offhand and a great burst weapon (especially considering it can proc fiery on the Shadowfang as well), but nobody can say for sure whether it really does proc enough. So for now I can't say I'd value this weapon most. Someone should just try it out extensively.
 
Tidal said:
I know this is a voting thread but I'd still give my reasons for my choices.



Because offhand DPS is reduced by 50%, the DPS of your offhand is worth 50% less (the extra miss chance from dual wielding also applies to your mainhand and all stats that are applied to it, so there's no difference there).



The [ITEM]Wingblade[/ITEM] has the highest DPS of any of the weapons, and the best stats too. Compared to the [ITEM]Cruel Barb[/ITEM] there's 0.2 more DPS and 1 more stats (12 AP = 6 points, 5 agi + 2 sta = 7 points).



Wingblade used to simply be underestimated because it was rather slow, and had stamina rather than full offensive stats. People like to ignore the fact that offhand DPS still DOES help, but not as much as mainhand DPS.

Before 3.09 (I think) dodge was still solid, but since it was nerfed the focus on avoidance faded, and [ITEM]Thief's Blade[/ITEM] lost its appeal. Yes, it's still good, but not the best anymore. 14.4 is 0.6 under Cruel Barb and 1.3 under Wingblade. That does add up, even if it still has the best stats (shared with Wingblade) and great speed.



Two things that are still depatable, are weapon speed and the proc rate of the [ITEM]Battleworn Thrash Blade[/ITEM]. People say pushback on casting is still a factor, so faster is better- but how much? Would you say 0.5 faster is worth 2 agility? Can anyone put a number on it :confused: Not as far as I know.



The Thrash Blade has a proc that will cause the main hand to get an instant extra attack. Using a Shadowfang in your main hand this can add up pretty hard. But the proc rate is completely unknown. People have gotten results ranging from 3% to 7%. Given these numbers, the proc could be the equivalent of about 12 agility, making it the best offhand and a great burst weapon (especially considering it can proc fiery on the Shadowfang as well), but nobody can say for sure whether it really does proc enough. So for now I can't say I'd value this weapon most. Someone should just try it out extensively.



Since the weapon speed of Battleworn Thrash Blade is 0.3 (or 0.4 - doesn't really matter but I don't know the exact number) lower isn't 'your next melee swing' often again your off-hand? Let's say you jump into melee range and your main and off-hand both hit (they do that simultainiously right?), your Shadowfang will have to wait 0.3-0.4 longer and your off-hand will have the proc.



Correct me if I'm wrong I've no idea how this exactly works, what I do know is that (at least for alliance) 2x Shadowfang with fiery enchants on both is the best all-round combination.
 
Rayu said:
Since the weapon speed of Battleworn Thrash Blade is 0.3 (or 0.4 - doesn't really matter but I don't know the exact number) lower isn't 'your next melee swing' often again your off-hand? Let's say you jump into melee range and your main and off-hand both hit (they do that simultainiously right?), your Shadowfang will have to wait 0.3-0.4 longer and your off-hand will have the proc.



Correct me if I'm wrong I've no idea how this exactly works, what I do know is that (at least for alliance) 2x Shadowfang with fiery enchants on both is the best all-round combination.



Hmm I always heard with the "grants an extra attack on your next swing" proc weapons that it worked off your next main hand swing if you are in fact dual wielding. At least I remember that's why GM geared Rogues at lvl 60 were still wearing their thrash blades and in OH when they had access to Grand Marshal's weapons. But of course that was years ago, so who knows how it works nowadays...
 
I guess it would depend on what I'm doing.

Ambush/garrote/backstab.. you want the most AP in the OH so



Cruel Barb w/ 15 agi



for normal WSG running around hacking and slashing



Cruel Barb w/ Fiery

Skeletal Club w/ Fiery

Scout's Blade w/ Fiery



pugging WSG, I'm not worried about a fast OH for spell push back. Premades, I'm going to want to use CB since it'll allows for the most AP and i still have kick/gouge available to interrupt spell cast.
 
[ITEM]Cruel Barb[/ITEM]

[ITEM]Thief's Blade[/ITEM]



The only items worth it in your off-hand at 19.
 
1. the battleworn thrash blade is really, really bad. don't get it. the proc chance is abysmally low.



2. how is this even a debate? with pushback meaning nothing and no poisons at 19, 2x shadowfang is clearly the best rogue weapon combination at 19.



i also find it pretty hilarious that no rogues get dual wield specialization at 19 now that it's tier 1, since it gives such a monstrous dps increase. just another example of 19 being years behind i guess.



if you don't have a 2nd shadowfang, you're just out of luck :(



edit: just realized that he's excluding shadowfang (i think?). in that case, cruel barb and wingblade are going to be the best offhands for the same reasons. they're seriously so close that it really doesn't matter which one you go with.
 
Lloydganks said:
1. the battleworn thrash blade is really, really bad. don't get it. the proc chance is abysmally low.



2. how is this even a debate? with pushback meaning nothing and no poisons at 19, 2x shadowfang is clearly the best rogue weapon combination at 19.



i also find it pretty hilarious that no rogues get dual wield specialization at 19 now that it's tier 1, since it gives such a monstrous dps increase. just another example of 19 being years behind i guess.



if you don't have a 2nd shadowfang, you're just out of luck :(



edit: just realized that he's excluding shadowfang (i think?). in that case, cruel barb and wingblade are going to be the best offhands for the same reasons. they're seriously so close that it really doesn't matter which one you go with.



3/3 imp gouge is a must, as far as the other 7 pts, dual wield specialization doesn't provide too much damage benefit.



sub tree is the way to go IMO. but it all depends if you are pugging, arena or premading
 
The pole is close, almost 50/50! Thanks for everyones vote and comments, your posts help. :)
 
Mazurati said:
3/3 imp gouge is a must, as far as the other 7 pts, dual wield specialization doesn't provide too much damage benefit.



sub tree is the way to go IMO. but it all depends if you are pugging, arena or premading



go look up game mechanics or something. dual wield spec provides a hilariously large proportional dps increase at 19 for rogues.
 
Lloydganks said:
go look up game mechanics or something. dual wield spec provides a hilariously large proportional dps increase at 19 for rogues.



OH DPS doesn't factor into anything when you Ambush, Garrote or Backstab.



maybe you should:



1. actually read what I post and

2. look up game mechanics regarding Ambush/Garrote/Backstab.
 
Lloydganks said:
go look up game mechanics or something. dual wield spec provides a hilariously large proportional dps increase at 19 for rogues.



Here's the maths, I'm not giving my opinion;



Say you use identical weapons for your MH and OH.

Your MH weapon gives you 100% of it's damage.

Your OH weapon gives you 50% of it's damage.



Dual Wield Specialization adds multiplicatively, NOT additively.

50% * 1,5 = 75% (if spec'd 5/5)



Total damage done increase in the most ideal set-up in which your OH swings as many times as your MH (which it barely ever does) this increases your total WHITE damage by:

(175% -150%) / 150% * 100% = 16,67%



This does NOT affect Sinister Strike and other rogue abilities, just white hits. On top of that, to get this 16,67% increase you need to spend 5 talent points, making it:

16,67% / 5 = 3,33% increased white damage per talent point spent.
 
Duckhunt said:
Did you factor in your miss chance on offhand?



When you dual wield both your MH and OH get a 24% base chance to miss. Regardless of how much hit rating you have they will always have equal chances to miss, therefore there's no difference in putting this in my calculations.
 

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