The Fury nerf was the last straw

I feel like Enh absolutely slaps in dmg, but has little t-rex arms so you can't reach anyone to show them in some games.
 
Enhance does well enough, its just not great. The damage is also "good", the lack of a stun is the only real problem for dealing with the issues 20s demand. For skirms most of the winning comps I have seen so far just have the ability to chain stun and then AOE cone you to death... it does not really matter what else they are doing as long as they are geared the chain is enough.
 
Because this has turned into an enhance thread, just curious what tier the community considers enh now?

Good burst, ranged damage, ranged slow, ghost wolf, kick, hybrid heal and some of the better pvp talent options available. In my mind there is more specs below than above so Iam thinking high B tier low A tier.

What are others thoughts?
 
Chey said:
In my mind there is more specs below than above so Iam thinking high B tier low A tier.
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it's a B tier spec, I think. It's not got any hard CC and most of its cool tools revolve around totems, something a lot of folks can just dispatch easily. Like, Counterstrike and Static Field might catch some fotm mongo hunters off guard but its not really gonna throw some of these guys playing at a higher level. You can frost shock/ghost wolf to run up on some folks, but a lot of classes still have ways to open gaps or force you into really bad positions to get up time. Thundercharge is an obvious go and so you use it and more aware teams just kinda disengage for 10 seconds.

I dont see where it does anything ele cant also do, with the benefit of ele is supposed to be at range where enhance is in the odd position of being a melee class that only wants to rarely be in melee range.

But enhance looks fun and dynamic and thats reason enough to play it, honestly.
 
My highest damage game was actually pre buff which I assume was just getting lucky AF with counterstrike totem.

Now, my overall average game is much better... enhance still has serious problems... but the frost shock change just makes it feel better and having the separate cool down just adds 1000s on to your general total which naturally applies more pressure and looks better on the board.

On paper it just looked like not that that much of a buff, but in game it turned out to be quite good.

I would still put it at Tier C... the issue is that you are still essentially a Melee with no stun fighting uphill against Survival/WW/Fury/Rogue/Ret/DH (with the right trinkets)... each of those has a Stun/A better slow/higher burst.

Sure pocket heals really does make a huge difference.

I would easily say that once you get rolling as Enhance in a fight with multiple targets flamed up, totems are down and you are just wacking people and being healed is like throwing your opponents a live running chainsaw... but, you have to get to that stage.

If you are not being healed you just get stunned and 2 shot... maybe 4 shot if you have high verse and high stam.
 
JadeFire said:
My highest damage game was actually pre buff which I assume was just getting lucky AF with counterstrike totem.

Now, my overall average game is much better... enhance still has serious problems... but the frost shock change just makes it feel better and having the separate cool down just adds 1000s on to your general total which naturally applies more pressure and looks better on the board.

On paper it just looked like not that that much of a buff, but in game it turned out to be quite good.

I would still put it at Tier C... the issue is that you are still essentially a Melee with no stun fighting uphill against Survival/WW/Fury/Rogue/Ret/DH (with the right trinkets)... each of those has a Stun/A better slow/higher burst.

Sure pocket heals really does make a huge difference.

I would easily say that once you get rolling as Enhance in a fight with multiple targets flamed up, totems are down and you are just wacking people and being healed is like throwing your opponents a live running chainsaw... but, you have to get to that stage.

If you are not being healed you just get stunned and 2 shot... maybe 4 shot if you have high verse and high stam.
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Can confirm. I've only played in pugs with no healers against fotm heavy teams. If I am fortunate enough to touch a target, and start rolling, shit can get crazy. The second I get stunned and focused it's gg for me lol. 3500 hp and 20 vers
 
Cattywompus said:
Can confirm. I've only played in pugs with no healers against fotm heavy teams. If I am fortunate enough to touch a target, and start rolling, shit can get crazy. The second I get stunned and focused it's gg for me lol. 3500 hp and 20 vers
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It's more the instant heal as well. Sure you get the eng belt... but, monk gets expel harm (which is huge when coming out of a stun lock... you can actually get to the self healing part) same with Ret. Plus as I said those other classes have a stun which lets them get a way to be healed or they can self heal while the target is stunned. Even rogue can stun and self heal.

Enhance just has to sit there and hope, and you get your healing surge kicked 100% of the time.

There are just a lot of 1v1 situations that do pop in randoms as well, way more often than I think people agree to.

Just like my argument above with my number 1 fan... a monk pops out on your enhance... if you don't have a trinket, he sun kicks you for 700... then you get stunned then he does a 2k fists... GG, there is nothing you are gonna do there even if you survive the hit, he will kick your heal. A Ret however can just stun him or get off an instant heal then beat the monk to death using instant self heals, the monk won't keep up unless the Ret is mentally handicapped.

Survival is just not worth talking about anymore... it is a 100% training wheels spec at 20... wrap it up.
 
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JadeFire said:
It's more the instant heal as well. Sure you get the eng belt... but, monk gets expel harm (which is huge when coming out of a stun lock... you can actually get to the self healing part) same with Ret. Plus as I said those other classes have a stun which lets them get a way to be healed or they can self heal while the target is stunned. Even rogue can stun and self heal.

Enhance just has to sit there and hope, and you get your healing surge kicked 100% of the time.
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Yeah when you put it in that perspective we are definitely in the middle of the pack as far as melee goes, which is already at a massive disadvantage due to how strong ranged classes are at 20, hunter in particular. Survival is the midrange anti melee spec ontop of that. Being melee is a little tricky lol here, as far as being a solo player is concerned.
 
Enh has a lot of high highs in its ideal play patterns and a lot of versatility in its play options. I have a hard time seeing Enh below B just because there are so many classes that have less upside and fewer play options. Enh can put out competent dmg at range, it can off heal it can toss big boy melee dmg, has range interrupts and consistent range slows; it's just not the best at any of those things. (if it had some defensive CDs that let it actually BE in melee long enough to bang it out this class would put many of the other melees to shame IMO.)

I would rank shaman in B, but I fully understand the play experience seems pretty incomplete @ 20 (not that that is an uncommon experience in this bracket.)
 
Lateraldrop said:
Enh has a lot of high highs in its ideal play patterns and a lot of versatility in its play options. I have a hard time seeing Enh below B just because there are so many classes that have less upside and fewer play options. Enh can put out competent dmg at range, it can off heal it can toss big boy melee dmg, has range interrupts and consistent range slows; it's just not the best at any of those things. (if it had some defensive CDs that let it actually BE in melee long enough to bang it out this class would put many of the other melees to shame IMO.)

I would rank shaman in B, but I fully understand the play experience seems pretty incomplete @ 20 (not that that is an uncommon experience in this bracket.)
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I just die so fast compared to playing my monk its bonkers. It's fun, but you are all in on just "doing more damage" than the other guy... and that rarely happens with no stun.

To me WW and Ret are B (I don't know where that puts rogue/feral/warrior/etc.)... and enhance is not at that level at all... all you can do is "ok" damage, but that is rarely enough when its not S tier damage that heals actually care about... even the most F level healer just stand there and take everything even a glass cannon enhance can dish out regardless if you hit or miss your shears.
 
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enh is insane rn and anyone who thinks otherwise can let me know so i can roll one to show you
[doublepost=1648153556,1648153337][/doublepost]
JadeFire said:
I just die so fast compared to playing my monk its bonkers. It's fun, but you are all in on just "doing more damage" than the other guy... and that rarely happens with no stun.

To me WW and Ret are B... and enhance is not at that level at all... all you can do is "ok" damage, but that is rarely enough when its not S tier damage that heals actually care about... even the most F level healer just stand there and take everything even a glass cannon enhance can dish out regardless if you hit or miss your shears.
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what is your monks name?
 
Voc said:
enh is insane rn and anyone who thinks otherwise can let me know so i can roll one to show you
[doublepost=1648153556,1648153337][/doublepost]
what is your monks name?
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Unfortunately had a leveling accident a few weeks ago :p sucks to suck and was totally my clown ass fault, shuffling around toons and not paying attention. I'm trying to get ticket fixed, but I doubt it (they seem to be hammering on that issue heavily). Already gearing a new one. Was sad because she did kick ass. Waiting to see what I can actually get done before I turn her into a farmer.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/bleeding-hollow/fyst

But, in comparison, the WW just does more work and the Enhance kind of kicks the crap out of levelers and poorly geared players. I'm still also just convinced outside of any actual logic that enhance dies faster or takes more damage, or whatever.

Fyst verus Slackjackson is not even fair, the monk was just 100% better to play, you had more options, you could actually kill healers, and in melee range you just did more. Slackjackson can pad more damage in an open game (that is not just a lopside kid show)... but that just padding... its not like you can go in and "kill that healer".
 
I'd put the skirm tier list something like this:

Hunter tier - you really should feel no joy or accomplishment if you're winning games as / with a hunter. There is no counterplay option - it's really your game to lose. Some people might feel differently. But I'd kindly ask those players to consider taking the training wheels off and choosing a new class. You deserve zero respect and your accomplishments with one are akin to speed running a disability ramp, pushing over wheelchairs on your way up.

A tier - can have play into Hunter classes. Still requires a skill discrepancy to win, but the classes have potential answers to Hunters.

Fury, Arcane, Windwalker, Retribution, Shadow.

B tier - have good synergies with some A-tier classes, and can be a top tier comp as a result.

Arms, Unholy, Assassination, Frost(M), Balance, Demonology, Enhance.

C tier - have no play in 2's skirmishes. Includes healers, which incidentally are probably just the way to go if you want to farm hunters. Play them in 3's and 95% of them hemorrhage rating.
 
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JadeFire said:
Unfortunately had a leveling accident a few weeks ago :p sucks to suck and was totally my clown ass fault, shuffling around toons and not paying attention. I'm trying to get ticket fixed, but I doubt it (they seem to be hammering on that issue heavily). Already gearing a new one. Was sad because she did kick ass. Waiting to see what I can actually get done before I turn her into a farmer.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/bleeding-hollow/fyst

But, in comparison, the WW just does more work and the Enhance kind of kicks the crap out of levelers and poorly geared players. I'm still also just convinced outside of any actual logic that enhance dies faster or takes more damage, or whatever.

Fyst verus Slackjackson is not even fair, the monk was just 100% better to play, you had more options, you could actually kill healers, and in melee range you just did more. Slackjackson can pad more damage in an open game (that is not just a lopside kid show)... but that just padding... its not like you can go in and "kill that healer".
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So far enhance is my most played vet in shadow lands. I just got my monk to my vet account yesterday, and have about 10 games on him so far. The damage is fucking wild, but ww just seems so clunky. I'm definitely way more used to enhance I guess, idk. As far as survivability I can't comment on it because every game is just jam packed with hunters so I can't comment of what a potential normal game would be like, lol. I think ww not having a slow is weird, but I'm getting used to it.

For comparison, here's my monk and shaman.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/bleeding-hollow/billwild

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/bleeding-hollow/shammywompus
 
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