soskanky
OG
They are griefing.
The "Exploit" has been fixed.
- Thread starter Hidan(^-^)
- Start date
They are griefing.
youbeezy
Beer.
lol!
Donteventrii
OG
By your definition of griefing, it happens at 85 all the time. The team that sits in the GY is even more helpless than lowbies attempting to compete against twinks with 500ish more health than them.
Donteventrii
OG
I'm not trolling at whatsoever. I don't think there is any real difference between "twinking" 85 or any other levels and queueing into undergeared players. Ink has gone on a goddamn witch hunt against people who don't even affect him.
I'm opening a discussion on what WoW pvp needs to be. These "twink" problems are stemming from gear influencing pvp when it should not. When we step into a battleground or arena, skill should be the only deciding factor. Eliminate gear discrepancies and you can open the game to being fixed long term. Every time a new tier of content comes out at max level, things must be reworked to deal with the new stats levels. This is absurd!
I'm opening a discussion on what WoW pvp needs to be. These "twink" problems are stemming from gear influencing pvp when it should not. When we step into a battleground or arena, skill should be the only deciding factor. Eliminate gear discrepancies and you can open the game to being fixed long term. Every time a new tier of content comes out at max level, things must be reworked to deal with the new stats levels. This is absurd!
Inkobah
OG
I'm going to be up front and honest: you're wrong.
To claim that I'm on a witch hunt against people who don't impact me is not even close to being accurate. Why? As a twink and an advocate for twinking I am painted by the same brush as these people who very clearly want to ruin the gaming experience for other players. The stereotype of twinks is that we're a bunch of bads who can't play max level and like to roll lowbie newbs. On the inside I know that's not true but that stereotype severely hampers our ability to grow and promote twinking as a whole. Generally speaking, people don't want to be part of a community with a bad reputation. And these guys very clearly give us a bad reputation.
On top of that, I was directly impacted the night of the very first time I talked about this issue. I experienced first-hand what so many other people had and it was not fun, miserable, and literally wasted 25 minutes of my time. But despite my personal impact, how is it OK to enter a game expecting one thing and get your 25 minutes wasted by encountering cheaters who just want to hijack the BG? If this were a real life situation people would be up in arms, but because it's a video game people want to throw away human ethics.
Your second point that this is a gear issue is also off-track. Gear would help manage the problem but the problem is not gear; the problem is people who want to be self-deceived pricks. This is why the exploit getting fixed only manages the problem but does not outright fix the problem. There will still be players who will enter in XP on BGs, grab the flag, farm GY, and ruin the game experience for the other players.
Your last point (technically it was your first) that this happens in 85 is also invalid. When people enter 85 BGs they're getting an intended experience that was created by Blizzard to work just that way; they know what they're getting into. While I don't think anyone should be farming GY (85s included) Blizzard has set up end game to work just that way and it's no secret that end game is what they invest the most time and effort into. With low level XP on BGs people enter them to level and get honor along the way. When they encounter these people that want to hijack the game they're getting exactly the opposite of what they're expecting and the BG is not working how Blizzard intended it to work.
I appreciate your attempts to question the validity of the criticism (I really do - that's not sarcasm) as we should always question criticism of any form, but the criticism is completely valid in this case.
-Ink
Donteventrii
OG
I guess we have to agree to disagree on 85 twinks.
You haven't proved that removing gear from PvP would not fix the problem (both the exploit in your eyes, and the "twinking" or overgearing opponents in PvP in my eyes). Most players that do the exploit are bad. They do this because their gear can carry them to victory. Take this away, they have nothing. Their skill must be put to the test against their lowbie opponents. Levelers can now compete! This also fixes the gear grind problem at end game. No longer can baddies crutch on their latest welfare gear against lesser geared 85s.
You haven't proved that removing gear from PvP would not fix the problem (both the exploit in your eyes, and the "twinking" or overgearing opponents in PvP in my eyes). Most players that do the exploit are bad. They do this because their gear can carry them to victory. Take this away, they have nothing. Their skill must be put to the test against their lowbie opponents. Levelers can now compete! This also fixes the gear grind problem at end game. No longer can baddies crutch on their latest welfare gear against lesser geared 85s.
soskanky
OG
I know of many VERY skilled twinks who had used this exploit. The gear would not have made a big impact. I think you are just arguing for the sake of argument, hence you are trolling. Or maybe you used the exploit yourself and that makes you a scumbag. Either way you are coming off like Willy. GJ
Donteventrii
OG
Who did you know that was good and consistently used the exploit to farm?
If gear didn't matter, there would be no advantage to using the exploit! If it didn't, you could get BOAs, relevel to 10 in an hour, and enjoy 20 Warsongs; or more if you just kept leveling thru the brackets as a good player (gear has little impact right?).
I'm bringing up a very relevant notion that gear discrepancies is biggest the problem in pvp related to twinking. You are coming off as Willy the troll, by providing no basis for what you are saying, and just putting down my discussion.
If gear didn't matter, there would be no advantage to using the exploit! If it didn't, you could get BOAs, relevel to 10 in an hour, and enjoy 20 Warsongs; or more if you just kept leveling thru the brackets as a good player (gear has little impact right?).
I'm bringing up a very relevant notion that gear discrepancies is biggest the problem in pvp related to twinking. You are coming off as Willy the troll, by providing no basis for what you are saying, and just putting down my discussion.
Inkobah
OG
They're not 85 twinks yet.
But in seriousness, you're right about the gear discrepancy but I'm pointing at a deeper issue than gear. Even if gear was completely even a premade (or group) of skilled players could still do what the exploiters have done. I'm arguing that the real issue is the lack of ethics that some players possess. We can essentially solve the problem on our own but that's not going to happen. If we could do that on our own we wouldn't need law enforcement. By the way, they won't ever level the gear playing field though. Loot is a huge draw for WoW and it keeps people invested in the game for longer.-Ink
Donteventrii
OG
By your own admission, a group of 5 skilled players group queueing into the leveling brackets with full BOAs can still do exactly what the exploiters have done. It looks like you missed the target by scapegoating exploiters instead of the issue at heart- the lack of ethics. It would have been much more productive to lead this crusade than the one against the few exploiters.
Just look at the Holy Paladins and Disc Priests that have come out of the woodwork to replace Hunters and Rogues of the leveling brackets. Surely these FOTM rerolls deserve equal, if not more, attention than the exploiters as there are so many many more of them than there are exploiters.
Suggesting things to Blizzard like removing gear from instanced Battlegrounds (Guild Wars 2 has done this), incorporating some kind of personal rating into pug and leveling BGs based off of the accounts end game rated experience, or even removing the ability to put level 60 enchants on level 10 gear would mean more in the long run than getting rid of the exploiters in the short term. They will find new ways to grief their opponents, you just can't legislate morality.
Just look at the Holy Paladins and Disc Priests that have come out of the woodwork to replace Hunters and Rogues of the leveling brackets. Surely these FOTM rerolls deserve equal, if not more, attention than the exploiters as there are so many many more of them than there are exploiters.
Suggesting things to Blizzard like removing gear from instanced Battlegrounds (Guild Wars 2 has done this), incorporating some kind of personal rating into pug and leveling BGs based off of the accounts end game rated experience, or even removing the ability to put level 60 enchants on level 10 gear would mean more in the long run than getting rid of the exploiters in the short term. They will find new ways to grief their opponents, you just can't legislate morality.
Inkobah
OG
You've missed my point (though it can be easy bc I'm posting @ 3 different locations about this topic): the point has always been about ethics. Dealing with the exploiters always had to do with ethics. I've yet to jump on other ethics issues because I haven't seen them in action like I have this XP Exploit (though about 3 years ago I created a kindness campaign on my home server to battle the crappy player ethics).
FotM or whatever else is not nearly as devastating as exploiters for one reason: exploiters are exploiting (aka cheating) to hijack BGs. FotM classes are simply using the working as intended dynamics of the game to dominate. I surely don't like GY camping from anyone but when someone cheats in order to do it it's a whole other level of lack of ethics.
-Ink
donniedarkõ
Legend
GY camping is not cheating regardless of any possible way it's being done. PvP has no morale code. The only thing that is not allowed in a battlegrounds is afking. The rest are the regulars rules from the rest of the game. All the PvP aspect is free game. For all I care, you have right to make sure the enemy is victorious. You heard me. You are allowed to do that. Your whole capping flags drama is completely irrelevant. Horde wants to cut some lumbers, Alliance wants to protect the trees. That's all that transpires in that bg.
Holding a flag is a mechanic. There is no ethics in a random battle. Though don't get me wrong I don't like exploits either, but why are you there then ? it's written "exploiters" on the front porch. I have been waiting patiently 1year and half for that fix. Week after week.
Anyway I don't find gy camping that exciting, boring, boring, boring. And don't think it's going to protect them forever, you would be mistaken, and they are mistaken. You are gonna hear people dinging all over the place like it's 4th july, flag or no flag. Trust me.
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