EU+US The #1 reasons teams lose WSG.

[Zuro]

Caring and fotm

 

[Shockadingle]

TFW when ppl on twinkinfo/xpoff tell u to fight in mid

Anyways, read my read my ''flagger'' post.

That is why you sometimes lose . Flaggers and mid are alien to each other and incompatible so with flaggers you will almost always lose and get farmed

This is the response I expected. I'm surprised it only came from one person. Trust me, I know all about "don't mid-fight, noobs." It's what mid-lvl players think is the smart thing to say and makes them better than the bottom lvl. But it's not true. Controlling the mid is vitally important. I'm one of the people who started the "don't fight mid" concept, back in vanilla before there was a f2p bracket. I was the Grand Marshal of the Alliance on my server which took 6 months of honor farming WSG and AB for 14 hours/day. It was a very competitive server. I was part of a team, and we lost 1 game in 6 months. We won our AB games in 6 minutes or less mostly 2000-0 or 2000-10. All our WSG were fast 3-0s. That was at max lvl(60 at the time) against a very large player base, not jajas. The top Horde players on the server put a team together to que against us, and failed(except that one game in 6 months.) I, and one other guy were the strategists, though he was our leader and shot caller.) So I know what I'm talking about. I've done and won more WSG and AB than the top players in this bracket all combined. Just saying.
There's a time to fight mind and that time is almost always. It's almost never worth while to have defenders in your flag room as they can defend better in the field. And it is rarely necessary for more than 1-2 ppl to go into the EFR(enemy flag room) to pick up the flag. Everybody else should be mid the whole game, except for a healer to escort the FC up the tunnel if you have a rogue/feral problem.
That doesn't mean tunnel vision on whoever your current target is when the FCs are in the field.
Let me give you some examples of how ti works.
If the other team is foolish enough to have defenders in the flag room, we just hop down with a mage and frost nova them all and run out, or a priest and psychic scream them and run out. They are then useless, chasing us down the field and never catching up to be relevent. We cut off the enemy FC with our whole team and half the enemy team out of range to be effective, behind us, and faceroll 10v less than 10 and cap. It's just too easy to get bypassed if you start in your own flag room. You don't even need aoe CC. Any feral druid can just pick up the flag solo and sprint out, shape-shifting out of slows/roots.
In the field, hunters can perma-slow him while staying out of cc themselves, rogues can time their ambushes for when his escapes are down. Priests can heal the offense and the defense at the same time, during the crucial passing of the FCs, not to mention your team probably already has a significant numbers advantage from taking the mid. "Don't fight mid" is a beginner strategy for those who can grasp the concept that the FCs are important, but not the finer points of strategic play, though controlling mid is pretty basic. If you control mid, the EFC can't make it up the field, and your FC can make it. And that's the game, that's both objectives in one. There's not that much more to WSG strategy than controling mid and keeping a healer and maybe 1 dps in range of your FC.
I think given what I've explaind here, a quote like "Flaggers and mid are alien to each other and incompatible so with flaggers you will almost always lose and get farmed," is rather apparently silly and misguided. Sorry, friend; I don't mean to throw you under the bus. I'm sure a lot of players were thinking the same thing. There's quite a difference between controlling mid to stop the EFC and help your FC, vs blindly tunnel-visioning random opponents in mid while ignoring the FCs. The latter would, of course, would be bad playing. HOWEVER, it's better to have the noobs blindly tunnnel-visioning opponents in the field so they are making their presence felt, and keeping enemies busy, ranter than sitting in your flag room out of combat most of the game, causing your team to lose mid, probably getting bypassed when the efc picks up. And you also don't want your noobs escorting your FC INTO the EFR(enemy flag room) for no reason so that by the time they all come out, your team is dead and you can't make it across the field. So you want the noobs in the field too, even though they will ignore the FCs. It's the best use of noobs.

"Defending" works much better in the field than in the flag room, for many reasons.:
The first is that the enemy FC can just use any kind of leap ability to leave you behind in there and you can never catch up, making most classes in there uesless, or at least much worse than they'd be intercepting the FC in the field.(I think I menioned that. Writing this comment non-carefully.)
The second is that in the field, you healers can heal both offense and defense at the same time during the crucial moments.
Another is that many slowing and CCing classes like hunters and mages can have the mobility they work well with in open spaces, and pick their perfect moment to use aoe cc on the enemy team.
Another is that if you have a power or a numbers advantage(as you usually will if you control mid) it's better to have your FC cut off the EFC mid-field and fight it out, rather than run past and then have to divide the team to hunt down the EFC in his base. (Make sure you have enough healers to heal through the entire enemy team. Usually takes 2-3.)

Anyway, I don't want to go too deep into minor points of strategy. Suffice it to say, when I say FEAR is the #1 loss-maker, it's doesn't mean I think "don't be scurred" is the be all and end all of WSG strategy. I've done literally thousands of WSG games, orders of magnitude more than most players here, including on a team that lost once in 6 months of 14 hours/day non-stop BGs, and that was 10 years ago. Most of you were barely out of diapers at that time. The strategies were all figured out before you could talk or go poopy in the potty.
If you want to be pro, there's more to it, that you can think about. But FEAR is the #1 loss-maker. I promise you. And fighting mid is good.


Now I'll tell you how to win AB, and maybe copy and paste it also to begin a new thread. It's pretty simple.
You'll hear most ppl say take 3 adjacent flags and keep 5 people per flag. That's almost right. Except you want only 1-3 players per flag. That's important. I recommend 3, unless the 1 or 2 are very tanky. The rest of the players, and it matters which classes, but I won't go into that, should be sitting on their mounts on the road directly in between your 3 flags. This is your mobile defense squad, and should include at least 1 healer, unless you already have a healer at each flag. This group's job is to ride quickly to whichever flag gets attacked since they are already mounted, out of combat, and half way their when the defender calls "incomming."
This is really all you need to know. It will win every game at this level, 100%, unless the other team is just way too overpowered and can win with uneven numbers.
As I mentioned, we won our games 2000-0, which means we took all 5 flags, but this is mostly what we fell back on to make sure we won if we were facing a horde team that could challenge us. We'd also have stealthies scouting enemy flags to ninja them if they were not adequately defended. 2 rogues together can Sap-cap against 1 defender. We had a mage or priest at LM who could cast Slow-Fall or Levitate on people so they could jump and glide over to BS quickly if needed. As a night elf hunter, I would defend flags solo by shadow melding out of the way somewhere while my pet kept anyone from capping the flag until help arrived, forcing them to try to kill the pet. Took too long. We had all kinds of tricks. We kept track fo how many stealthies the enemy team had and where they were. Kept enough ppl at the flags they could get to to survive them until help could arrive. But you don't need all that to win 90% of the ABs in this bracket. I didn't go over how to make sure you get 3 flags in the beginning. There are strategies for that, but you dont' really need them since it seems like most teams get 3 adjacent flags at some point anyway, and then lose them via stupidity.
Here, I'll give you one, so you get an idea: BS is the most important flag, so we'd send a large # there. BUT not all of then would dismount and get in combat if not needed. If the enemy only send 3 to BS, we'd have 4 ppl engage them, and the rest would ride over to LM or GM. (LM is preferable because you have better vision from there.) This means we didn't have MORE ppl at a flag than we needed to take it(just like we didn't keep MORE ppl at a flag than we needed to defend it). Inevitable, the enemy team would take a flag with more people than they needed, which is inefficient. That let us take 3 to their 2. Often 4 to their 1. Then, often, we'd keep 1 player per flag and attempt to take their starting area(farm) 11 vs 15. If that push failed, we'd rez back at BS, GM, and LM in time to defend them by the time the enemies could mount up and ride to them.
But you don't need all that shit. That's way more complex than necesssary to win 95% of AB games. You just need 3 ppl per flag and 6 on a mobile, mounted defense squad. That's it. gg. And again, this is not theorycrafting. This was tested and proven effective in 1000 of redundant "experiments" when you guys were in diapers.
Oh, one other thing.....
In this bracket, or with random noobs in any bracket, the defenders will not call incoming in time, usually. Fortunately you don't need them to call incs, if you're smart. From your mount between BS, LM, and your home flag, you can SEE BS and your home flag. And you can look on the map to see which of your team mates are at LM. Keep an eye on their health/resource bars in the raid boxes. If you see their health/resource bar move, they are under attack, and you go help them. If you see ppl at BS or your home flag, you go there. If you see enemies attacking both, use your judgement.
If one is completely overrun by a ZERG, and the noobs won't respond to defend it because they're stupid or scared, take the one across the map from the Zerged one, or the one the Zerg just abandoned. (Zerg= large group of morons running around all together taking 1 flag at a time - not effective against a smart team who re-caps behind them.)
If you are an enchanted priest, meaning you are over-powerd, or something like a 29 BM, you can be the solo mobile defense squad all by yourself, and win the majority of games. It doesn't work great solo, the noobs will completely abandon the flags and you'll have to go defend by yourself, and no longer be able to defend all 3. But it still helps to do it when you can. I've won 90 AB games on this character and lost 50, and pretty much all 140 games I was just solo-qued using the random BG que. Maybe a few I was queued random with whoever I was doing 2v2 with. So 90W - 50L is not a bad ratio for 1 player out of 30 in the bg. Being a strong class helps no matter what you do, but knowing where to go and what to do to maximize your impact allows you to make a much bigger difference.
The End.

 

[Amelletta]

take note people.

This is the response I expected. I'm surprised it only came from one person. Trust me, I know all about "don't mid-fight, noobs." It's what mid-lvl players think is the smart thing to say and makes them better than the bottom lvl. But it's not true. Controlling the mid is vitally important. I'm one of the people who started the "don't fight mid" concept, back in vanilla before there was a f2p bracket. I was the Grand Marshal of the Alliance on my server which took 6 months of honor farming WSG and AB for 14 hours/day. It was a very competitive server. I was part of a team, and we lost 1 game in 6 months. We won our AB games in 6 minutes or less mostly 2000-0 or 2000-10. All our WSG were fast 3-0s. That was at max lvl(60 at the time) against a very large player base, not jajas. The top Horde players on the server put a team together to que against us, and failed(except that one game in 6 months.) I, and one other guy were the strategists, though he was our leader and shot caller.) So I know what I'm talking about. I've done and won more WSG and AB than the top players in this bracket all combined. Just saying.
There's a time to fight mind and that time is almost always. It's almost never worth while to have defenders in your flag room as they can defend better in the field. And it is rarely necessary for more than 1-2 ppl to go into the EFR(enemy flag room) to pick up the flag. Everybody else should be mid the whole game, except for a healer to escort the FC up the tunnel if you have a rogue/feral problem.
That doesn't mean tunnel vision on whoever your current target is when the FCs are in the field.
Let me give you some examples of how ti works.
If the other team is foolish enough to have defenders in the flag room, we just hop down with a mage and frost nova them all and run out, or a priest and psychic scream them and run out. They are then useless, chasing us down the field and never catching up to be relevent. We cut off the enemy FC with our whole team and half the enemy team out of range to be effective, behind us, and faceroll 10v less than 10 and cap. It's just too easy to get bypassed if you start in your own flag room. You don't even need aoe CC. Any feral druid can just pick up the flag solo and sprint out, shape-shifting out of slows/roots.
In the field, hunters can perma-slow him while staying out of cc themselves, rogues can time their ambushes for when his escapes are down. Priests can heal the offense and the defense at the same time, during the crucial passing of the FCs, not to mention your team probably already has a significant numbers advantage from taking the mid. "Don't fight mid" is a beginner strategy for those who can grasp the concept that the FCs are important, but not the finer points of strategic play, though controlling mid is pretty basic. If you control mid, the EFC can't make it up the field, and your FC can make it. And that's the game, that's both objectives in one. There's not that much more to WSG strategy than controling mid and keeping a healer and maybe 1 dps in range of your FC.
I think given what I've explaind here, a quote like "Flaggers and mid are alien to each other and incompatible so with flaggers you will almost always lose and get farmed," is rather apparently silly and misguided. Sorry, friend; I don't mean to throw you under the bus. I'm sure a lot of players were thinking the same thing. There's quite a difference between controlling mid to stop the EFC and help your FC, vs blindly tunnel-visioning random opponents in mid while ignoring the FCs. The latter would, of course, would be bad playing. HOWEVER, it's better to have the noobs blindly tunnnel-visioning opponents in the field so they are making their presence felt, and keeping enemies busy, ranter than sitting in your flag room out of combat most of the game, causing your team to lose mid, probably getting bypassed when the efc picks up. And you also don't want your noobs escorting your FC INTO the EFR(enemy flag room) for no reason so that by the time they all come out, your team is dead and you can't make it across the field. So you want the noobs in the field too, even though they will ignore the FCs. It's the best use of noobs.

"Defending" works much better in the field than in the flag room, for many reasons.:
The first is that the enemy FC can just use any kind of leap ability to leave you behind in there and you can never catch up, making most classes in there uesless, or at least much worse than they'd be intercepting the FC in the field.(I think I menioned that. Writing this comment non-carefully.)
The second is that in the field, you healers can heal both offense and defense at the same time during the crucial moments.
Another is that many slowing and CCing classes like hunters and mages can have the mobility they work well with in open spaces, and pick their perfect moment to use aoe cc on the enemy team.
Another is that if you have a power or a numbers advantage(as you usually will if you control mid) it's better to have your FC cut off the EFC mid-field and fight it out, rather than run past and then have to divide the team to hunt down the EFC in his base. (Make sure you have enough healers to heal through the entire enemy team. Usually takes 2-3.)

Anyway, I don't want to go too deep into minor points of strategy. Suffice it to say, when I say FEAR is the #1 loss-maker, it's doesn't mean I think "don't be scurred" is the be all and end all of WSG strategy. I've done literally thousands of WSG games, orders of magnitude more than most players here, including on a team that lost once in 6 months of 14 hours/day non-stop BGs, and that was 10 years ago. Most of you were barely out of diapers at that time. The strategies were all figured out before you could talk or go poopy in the potty.
If you want to be pro, there's more to it, that you can think about. But FEAR is the #1 loss-maker. I promise you. And fighting mid is good.


Now I'll tell you how to win AB, and maybe copy and paste it also to begin a new thread. It's pretty simple.
You'll hear most ppl say take 3 adjacent flags and keep 5 people per flag. That's almost right. Except you want only 1-3 players per flag. That's important. I recommend 3, unless the 1 or 2 are very tanky. The rest of the players, and it matters which classes, but I won't go into that, should be sitting on their mounts on the road directly in between your 3 flags. This is your mobile defense squad, and should include at least 1 healer, unless you already have a healer at each flag. This group's job is to ride quickly to whichever flag gets attacked since they are already mounted, out of combat, and half way their when the defender calls "incomming."
This is really all you need to know. It will win every game at this level, 100%, unless the other team is just way too overpowered and can win with uneven numbers.
As I mentioned, we won our games 2000-0, which means we took all 5 flags, but this is mostly what we fell back on to make sure we won if we were facing a horde team that could challenge us. We'd also have stealthies scouting enemy flags to ninja them if they were not adequately defended. 2 rogues together can Sap-cap against 1 defender. We had a mage or priest at LM who could cast Slow-Fall or Levitate on people so they could jump and glide over to BS quickly if needed. As a night elf hunter, I would defend flags solo by shadow melding out of the way somewhere while my pet kept anyone from capping the flag until help arrived, forcing them to try to kill the pet. Took too long. We had all kinds of tricks. We kept track fo how many stealthies the enemy team had and where they were. Kept enough ppl at the flags they could get to to survive them until help could arrive. But you don't need all that to win 90% of the ABs in this bracket. I didn't go over how to make sure you get 3 flags in the beginning. There are strategies for that, but you dont' really need them since it seems like most teams get 3 adjacent flags at some point anyway, and then lose them via stupidity.
Here, I'll give you one, so you get an idea: BS is the most important flag, so we'd send a large # there. BUT not all of then would dismount and get in combat if not needed. If the enemy only send 3 to BS, we'd have 4 ppl engage them, and the rest would ride over to LM or GM. (LM is preferable because you have better vision from there.) This means we didn't have MORE ppl at a flag than we needed to take it(just like we didn't keep MORE ppl at a flag than we needed to defend it). Inevitable, the enemy team would take a flag with more people than they needed, which is inefficient. That let us take 3 to their 2. Often 4 to their 1. Then, often, we'd keep 1 player per flag and attempt to take their starting area(farm) 11 vs 15. If that push failed, we'd rez back at BS, GM, and LM in time to defend them by the time the enemies could mount up and ride to them.
But you don't need all that shit. That's way more complex than necesssary to win 95% of AB games. You just need 3 ppl per flag and 6 on a mobile, mounted defense squad. That's it. gg. And again, this is not theorycrafting. This was tested and proven effective in 1000 of redundant "experiments" when you guys were in diapers.
Oh, one other thing.....
In this bracket, or with random noobs in any bracket, the defenders will not call incoming in time, usually. Fortunately you don't need them to call incs, if you're smart. From your mount between BS, LM, and your home flag, you can SEE BS and your home flag. And you can look on the map to see which of your team mates are at LM. Keep an eye on their health/resource bars in the raid boxes. If you see their health/resource bar move, they are under attack, and you go help them. If you see ppl at BS or your home flag, you go there. If you see enemies attacking both, use your judgement.
If one is completely overrun by a ZERG, and the noobs won't respond to defend it because they're stupid or scared, take the one across the map from the Zerged one, or the one the Zerg just abandoned. (Zerg= large group of morons running around all together taking 1 flag at a time - not effective against a smart team who re-caps behind them.)
If you are an enchanted priest, meaning you are over-powerd, or something like a 29 BM, you can be the solo mobile defense squad all by yourself, and win the majority of games. It doesn't work great solo, the noobs will completely abandon the flags and you'll have to go defend by yourself, and no longer be able to defend all 3. But it still helps to do it when you can. I've won 90 AB games on this character and lost 50, and pretty much all 140 games I was just solo-qued using the random BG que. Maybe a few I was queued random with whoever I was doing 2v2 with. So 90W - 50L is not a bad ratio for 1 player out of 30 in the bg. Being a strong class helps no matter what you do, but knowing where to go and what to do to maximize your impact allows you to make a much bigger difference.
The End.

its good to see that I'm not the only one.

 

[thoughtank101]

I have played thousands of all of the battlegrounds since 2004, and as a twink since f2p wow came out, and there is one clear outstanding reason why one team wins WSG And the other loses, which nobody seems to notice or discuss.
Fear.
Or, more precisely and accurately, "cowardice."
The psychological factor is extreme in WSG, much worst than in EoTS or AB, but the reasons are too complex to cover here. Here's how it works:
When the gates open, some players from each time run straight for the enemy flag, and some run to fight the enemy team. My estimate is that 95% of the time(no exaggeration) the team that wins the middle in the first conflict wins the match. This is because a psychological precedent has been set.
Often, they won the initial conflict for an arbitrary reason; most commonly, too many members of the opposition ran to pick up the flag when it takes 1-2 at most.
If 5 ppl go to pick up the flag in the beginning, for example, the other 5 get stomped in the field. You may think that doesn't matter because they weren't fighting for an objective, or shouldn't matter, but I'm telling you, it is the single most important factor in determining who wins.
I know a lot of veteran players will disagree based on their paper theories, but I have observed this time and again, hundreds and hundreds of times, with very little exception.

The reason is this: The players who got stomped in the initial confrontation remain convinced that their team is weaker for the rest of the match. They get gun-shy. For every future conflict in that match, they, some of them, will run away, or hover around, hesitating to engage which puts their team mates who DO go in at an enormous disadvantage, which guarantees that their team mates will, indeed, get stomped.
Those people who got abandoned initially, because too many went to pick up the flag become "fair-weather" warriors, who have a build-in assumption that the weather is not fair. And this, in turn, makes the weather abysmal.
I've seen this happen over and over and over to the team that is stronger on paper. They get scared, don't fight anymore and the idea of being weaker becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I used to tell people how many 29s (or 24s back in the day) were on the enemy team, just as a head's up. But I learned NEVER to do that. If I go in healing hard, I can make a weaker team win if they go in hard too. But if I give them the idea that they are at a disadvantage in the beginning, they won't go in hard and fight. I few will, of course, but we'll be out-numbered because of fear, which makes it almost impossible to win. The frightened ones who watch, seeing the better players get stomped, have their erroneous notion confirmed(that the enemy team is just too good).
They're too stupid to realize that it is because they, in their cowardice, didn't help that the fight they just refused to commit to didn't go their team's way. The fear is what kills. It's so prevalent in this game, at least, even though virtual death costs nothing. It's senseless. But it is human instinct, to panic, to run and hide, throwing your friends in the line of danger to buy you time.
As a priest, this is especially frustrating, when you KNOW you can keep EVERYBODY up against the incomming damage, and you are doing so, keeping everyone alive, even topped off. But then one guy panics and runs. End like dominoes, a couple more see that guy taking off and try to disengage. Even if only 3 people panic nad the other 7 stay, that makes it uneven and turns a win into a loss. If the priest stays in until the end, eventually he is overrun by the other team, not because his players died, but because they ran away.
And then, they all get run down and die without heals. By the time the priest resurrects and gets back to the field they are scattered and terrified and remain so for the rest of the match, skittish, afraid to engage.
All because one guy panicked for no reason and a couple more got infected with the panic.

This sort of thing can happen in multiple ways. A warrior might be in front, taking most of the enemy damage. Then he charges deep into the back line away from his healer, and dies. That shifts the enemy focus onto his team's hunters. That wouldn't be a problem; hunters can face-tank with adequate heals. But the hunters' natural instinct is to disengage and run away from any melee attack, which leaves the priest who would have healed them on the new front line, having to tank and heal, which means he gets all the interrupts, stuns, silences and focus fire. It's senseless. But the hunters panicked unnecessarily.

It can happen legitimately at first. Both teams could engage, and one loses. But then somebody on the team that lost the initial engagement leaves the bg and I get in. Even though the battle was close(I can tell how it went before I got in by a quick glance at the damage/healing columns on the scoreboard), and only 2 minutes have elapses, and it's 0-1, it's much, much harder than it should be to turn that game around and make them win. You pretty much have to get a flag cap by yourself in order to raise their cowardly spirits and get them to try again. Usually 2-4 players will just sit in the graveyard afk if their team lost the initial encounter. Then they will come alive again if their team manages to cap without them, with 6-8 vs 10 players participating.

I've had so many games in which not a single player on my team dies within range of me the entire game, and yet we lose 0-3, because they scatter like roaches when the light is turned on as soon as they see the enemy team, and all die out of range for heals.

I would bet on a team of non-enchanted lvl 20s who had no fear to beat an team of pre-made 29s about half the time. Most 29s are not very good. They tend to be below average at PvP, which is why they seek asylum in the one bracket with a built-in underclass. Why would you pay to play in the free bracket unless you either hate money, or feel you need an unfair advantage?
I noticed early on that the main reason the 24s, and now 29s, are so dominant in this bracket's pvp is the fear that their anticipated advantage instills in the opposition. The other team simply won't fight, not all of them. So they lose 95% instead of the 50% they would lose if they weren't low-intelligence, low-courage persons.

So, guys, there's nothing to be afraid of. I'm here for you, to give you comfort. But I have to give it to you straight. You're a bunch of pussies who need to grow some balls and do the PvP you queued up for. This really is the magical land of immortality and unicorns. If you die here, you come back to life in 0-30 seconds with no ill effects. There's no pain. There's no risk. No downside. But if you can't overcome your womanly instinct to run away and duck your team mates, you will be a loser. And I don't want that for you.
If you can't be a man in a video game, how on earth will you be one in real life? Yours is a generation of pussies. You need to participate; that's how you get better. They never should have given you trophies for it. It gives you the idea that it's just for some people some of the time. No, participation is expected of you all the time in a team competition, because people are depending on YOU. The trophy is for the one who wins, which you are expected to try to do.

I can imagine any 2 of you in the schoolyard, getting approached by a bully who says to give him your lunch money. Even though together, 2v1, you could stomp him into the ground, you instead each try to hide behind each other fighting each other to be the one not closest to the bully until you both get your faces punched in and your money taken. Fight you pussies!
FIGHT, I SAY!! For God's Sake, boy! Fight! (It's what you came for.)

This is so true, specially in a pug. The other thing is an actual gear advantage by the other team, it happens that the horde usually out-gear the alliance and they will just farm us at our graveyard, that's why i usually leave WSG out of my random queue. I usually go in geared, full twink, but too many others don't. its seems, most alliance geared no this, so we do much better in AB and IOTS.

 

[LennywBT]

I wholeheartedly agree, but this is not 100% cannon for every type of game. There are Pug games and there are competitive 10v10s. For the 10v10s it is highly suggested you win mid, as it is the only source of your team being dominant and opens a lot of doors for objective play.

For PuGs though, you are talking in a only-win standard, even if perfectly played by the disadvantageous team, less likely are the chances of them winning, so if mid cannot be won, at least there has to be some sort of other way to arrive at a win.
Personally, i have gone against 2-3 29 BM monks and i have still managed to cap 2 flags, and was close to cap the 3rd, but all in all it was just me and 2-3 others trying, the other part was trying mid, clueless. Because if you are 100% certain that you won't win it, you definitely should swap objectives.

Fear is a huge factor, that is what i can 100% confirm though. It causes hesitation, and that hesitation may cause your worst fears to come true. That is something i have experienced myself .

 

[inoobupro]

Most of the time you dont lose because its the midfighters(ok sometimes you do)

But you lose because in the beginning or mid game 3-5 flagger passive ret@rded apes decide to ''go on defense'' or ''jump onto of the A/H tunnel because they dont want to participate in mid fighting because farming kills is bad 4 game spirit HuRRR" (non participation LOL and best of all is when those degenerates call you out for losing the game /not participating ROFL )

Like..what the fuck are you trying to defend LOL THIS AINT FUCKING ROCKET SCIENCE KILL MID SHITTERS SO THEY CANT KILL UR FLAG GUY AND KEEP KILLING HEHE UNTIL 40% stacks if EFC DRUID, THEN PROCEED ON TO NUKE EFC, AND WIN THE GAME