Shockadingle
Legend
I made a post a while ago asking how the ranking system worked and what would be the best strategy to gain rank. Specifically, I wanted to know if it would be better to
1)have a good partner to be able to beat better teams, as seems intuitive, or better to
2) have a low ranked partner and try to carry him, in order to gain more rank per win and lose less rank per loss.
I got some helpful feedback about how the system works but nothing that shed light on the relative merits of those two strategy options. So I tested a bit, and though I can't offer proof, what I found endorses what most people probably assumed anyway, nothing revolutionary: It's better to have a good partner.
As a disc priest, probably the #1 spec for carrying bad partners due to the unusually high dmg out-put for a healer without gimped heals, I STILL found that carrying random people via solo que doesn't work very well. I guess the problem is that the teams I can beat 1v2 don't award any ranking points anyway, and I can't beat 2 good players solo, so even though I lose less ranking per loss, I gain almost nothing for those wins, at least beyond 1800 or so.
Conclusion:
Option 1: The most effective strategy would be to find the best lvl 29 partner you can. There's nothing really wrong with queuing with 29s, given the nature of the bracket(You're competing against 29s). BUT since, unlike the bracket itself, the the ladder CAN be sorted for 20s only, it's kind of lame to use a 29 partner specifically for the purpose of climbing the lvl 20 ladder.
I have no doubt that I could get to #1 on the 20s ladder with a good 29 warrior partner, because I tried it, and some of the top double 29 teams who were higher ranked than any of the 20s started either consistently losing or queue dodging us to avoid rating loss. That's how powerful 29 warriors are with a healer. And that's perfectly fair in terms of competing with 29s for fun. And this is a video game; it's for fun. On the other hand, if you know that your purpose is to try to climb a lvl 20-only ladder on a third party web site(this site), and that your lvl 20 ladder competitors are not also queueing with 29s, then that creates an uneven playing field.
BUT, is it the responsibility of the other 20s to find overpowerd lvl 29 partners too, or is it your responsibility to find a skilled lvl 20 partner? Both are hard to find. It's a mixed bracket. I'll leave that to you to answer.
Option 2: The next most effective option would be to find the best lvl 20 partner you can that synergises well with your own character. Get on skype, work out strategies for beating the match-ups you'll face, reassess the strategy and mistakes after each loss, and be open and humble to each other's pointing out ways you could each improve.
It's hard to take criticism sometimes. You have to have a partner with whom there is mutual understood respect so that when one notices the other's mistake, it is not taken as an attack or blame. Likewise, it's important when you point out a 'mistake' to put it in away that doesn't imply that your partner "sucks" and isn't good enough to play with you. People are sensitive about that. Be humble. There will be mistakes in almost every match, so if your partner doesn't notice your mistake doesn't mean you didn't make one. In fact, I recommend mentioning your own mistakes to your partner when you notice them, so that when you mention a partner's mistake, it is clearly in the spirit of mutual improvement and not of blame. It won't be fun if either of you is feeling defensive. Instead of saying, "You should have done x," or "Why didn't you do x?" say "Let's try doing x."
Point out positive things too. When you notice your partner makes a match-winning play, say, "great play, partner. Perfectly timed Warstomp," or whatever it was. "Great Job keeping that (melee class) off of me." "Great heals, man, nice kiting." If you have already said some positive things, pointing out a mistake is far, far less likely to be taken in a negative way. But it's not just for positive sentiment, as important as that is. It also helps to "reinforce good behavior," in psychological terminology: "Thanks for that peel/those off-heals when they both got on me; I'd have died if you hadn't saved me there." In future matches, then, your partner knows you want him to stop dps to peel/off-heal for you in similar situations.
I fail at this sometimes; I know I've gotten defensive or make other people feel defensive. But I know how important these social dynamics are for team success.
Option 3: Just solo que. This is probably just as good if you are just starting, because you'll still be gaining rank for beating low lvl teams, and you won't lose much for losses. Climb up to 1700, and then start looking for a good partner, which you'll probably have met either in the arena or from dueling outside Orgrimmar or in Goldshire. I met most of the good players I know from getting randomly paired with them while solo-queuing. That's how I meet 29s also.
I lose rating solo-queuing, but it's a lot of fun. I meet so many good(and bad) players, get to try so many comps, learn how to make them work, and I get a lot of 1v2 and 1v1 matches, which I enjoy for the different challenges they present.
Personally, I solo queue and queue with 29s, and queue with good lvl 20s, whatever is available. My rating jumps all over the place accordingly. It's volatile, so it's best not to get too attached to it, UNLESS you're trying to push for top ladder ranking. (I'd like to do that myself once I find a partner who wants to do it with me.) In that case, stop both Option 1(quing wiht 29s), and Option 3(queing solo), for the duration of the attempt.
Queue dodging
Finally, I want to mention the strategy of "queue dodging," what it is, why I wouldn't do it, and why I think you shouldn't either.
Queue "dodging" refers to simply not queuing if you notice another team that you can't seem to beat is also queuing, in order to avoid losing rating to them. I doubt people dodge much in this bracket anyway; it's a concept I remember from max lvl years ago. But it could start here if people start caring about rating.
There are three reasons why I think you should NOT do that:
1) The first has nothing to do with honor, and is pure strategy: So many match-ups I've started losing the first 3-4 matches, and it seemed impossible to beat the other team. But, I've been doing this since long before there was a ladder, and without a ladder, there's no reason to dodge, so it never came up. So I would just keep trying, trying different ideas. Surprise, it is possible. I still hear good players casually remark that a certain comp seems unbeatable, and I smile thinking back on how I have learned to beat them. And I'm still learning. Almost everything is beatable. But you have to keep queuing against them, loss after loss, tanking your rating, until you figure it out. Once you figure it out, your rating will go right back up, even faster, and even farther. Learning those difficult strategies is exactly the best way to climb the ladder in the long run. Always sacrifice wins to gain skill. Then later, you'll gain rank against the teams that the other guys are dodging:
Double 29 BMs, beatable. 29 BM/WW, beatable. 29 healer/warrior, beatable. Double stealthy burst on your healer, beatable. Double 29 ret pallies, pretty easy actually.
2) The second reason I think you shouldn't queue dodge is that it's dishonorable. It's much more 'lame', imo., than queing with a lvl 29. Why? Well, the idea of a ladder is that it ranks the players in order of their ability to beat each other. If you dodge a team, you artificially both 'preserve' your rank higher than it should be, and effectively lower their rank by robbing them of a win they deserve, if they can beat you. You shouldn't want that.
But what about dodging 29s? If the 29s are that much stronger than you, they will have a proportionally higher rating, meaning if they beat you, you won't lose much rating anyway, and it's great practice to fight at a disadvantage. Still, if you dodge them to save that little bit of rating, but the other 20s don't, you are again, effectively distorting the ladder. It's a way of cheating.
(Philosophical point: All systems in both 'real life' and 'virtual life' are flawed. You can take advantage of those flaws to gain unfair advantage in some competition, and maybe nobody will know. But you will know. And it won't feel good to be that guy. I'd steal a loaf of bread to feed a starving child, and i'd feel good about it; the benefit out-weighs the cost. But how would it feel to become dishonorable just to bump your name up some list attempting to rank players' video game performance, thereby destroying the integrity of the list you are attempting to climb? If, as in politics, winning by hook or by crook is really winning, then it becomes more noble to lose, and you can reliably infer crookedness from height of one's position. That's not what we want for our little f2p WoW community.)
3) Fun. The third reason not to queue dodge. Um.. you have to stop queuing. And the reason you were queuing was for fun. (It's a video game; it's for fun.) If you stop queuing, you stop having the fun of playing and competing. And for what? Additionally, dodging makes it less fun for the other players too. It's a small bracket, and we already don't have enough players for variety and consistently fast queue times. So dodging cheats yourself and everybody else out of the fun you could all be having.
This was a long, rambling post, but you didn't have to read it
It's your fault. I blame you. See you all in the Arenaaa!!! /rawr Woo woo.
1)have a good partner to be able to beat better teams, as seems intuitive, or better to
2) have a low ranked partner and try to carry him, in order to gain more rank per win and lose less rank per loss.
I got some helpful feedback about how the system works but nothing that shed light on the relative merits of those two strategy options. So I tested a bit, and though I can't offer proof, what I found endorses what most people probably assumed anyway, nothing revolutionary: It's better to have a good partner.
As a disc priest, probably the #1 spec for carrying bad partners due to the unusually high dmg out-put for a healer without gimped heals, I STILL found that carrying random people via solo que doesn't work very well. I guess the problem is that the teams I can beat 1v2 don't award any ranking points anyway, and I can't beat 2 good players solo, so even though I lose less ranking per loss, I gain almost nothing for those wins, at least beyond 1800 or so.
Conclusion:
Option 1: The most effective strategy would be to find the best lvl 29 partner you can. There's nothing really wrong with queuing with 29s, given the nature of the bracket(You're competing against 29s). BUT since, unlike the bracket itself, the the ladder CAN be sorted for 20s only, it's kind of lame to use a 29 partner specifically for the purpose of climbing the lvl 20 ladder.
I have no doubt that I could get to #1 on the 20s ladder with a good 29 warrior partner, because I tried it, and some of the top double 29 teams who were higher ranked than any of the 20s started either consistently losing or queue dodging us to avoid rating loss. That's how powerful 29 warriors are with a healer. And that's perfectly fair in terms of competing with 29s for fun. And this is a video game; it's for fun. On the other hand, if you know that your purpose is to try to climb a lvl 20-only ladder on a third party web site(this site), and that your lvl 20 ladder competitors are not also queueing with 29s, then that creates an uneven playing field.
BUT, is it the responsibility of the other 20s to find overpowerd lvl 29 partners too, or is it your responsibility to find a skilled lvl 20 partner? Both are hard to find. It's a mixed bracket. I'll leave that to you to answer.
Option 2: The next most effective option would be to find the best lvl 20 partner you can that synergises well with your own character. Get on skype, work out strategies for beating the match-ups you'll face, reassess the strategy and mistakes after each loss, and be open and humble to each other's pointing out ways you could each improve.
It's hard to take criticism sometimes. You have to have a partner with whom there is mutual understood respect so that when one notices the other's mistake, it is not taken as an attack or blame. Likewise, it's important when you point out a 'mistake' to put it in away that doesn't imply that your partner "sucks" and isn't good enough to play with you. People are sensitive about that. Be humble. There will be mistakes in almost every match, so if your partner doesn't notice your mistake doesn't mean you didn't make one. In fact, I recommend mentioning your own mistakes to your partner when you notice them, so that when you mention a partner's mistake, it is clearly in the spirit of mutual improvement and not of blame. It won't be fun if either of you is feeling defensive. Instead of saying, "You should have done x," or "Why didn't you do x?" say "Let's try doing x."
Point out positive things too. When you notice your partner makes a match-winning play, say, "great play, partner. Perfectly timed Warstomp," or whatever it was. "Great Job keeping that (melee class) off of me." "Great heals, man, nice kiting." If you have already said some positive things, pointing out a mistake is far, far less likely to be taken in a negative way. But it's not just for positive sentiment, as important as that is. It also helps to "reinforce good behavior," in psychological terminology: "Thanks for that peel/those off-heals when they both got on me; I'd have died if you hadn't saved me there." In future matches, then, your partner knows you want him to stop dps to peel/off-heal for you in similar situations.
I fail at this sometimes; I know I've gotten defensive or make other people feel defensive. But I know how important these social dynamics are for team success.
Option 3: Just solo que. This is probably just as good if you are just starting, because you'll still be gaining rank for beating low lvl teams, and you won't lose much for losses. Climb up to 1700, and then start looking for a good partner, which you'll probably have met either in the arena or from dueling outside Orgrimmar or in Goldshire. I met most of the good players I know from getting randomly paired with them while solo-queuing. That's how I meet 29s also.
I lose rating solo-queuing, but it's a lot of fun. I meet so many good(and bad) players, get to try so many comps, learn how to make them work, and I get a lot of 1v2 and 1v1 matches, which I enjoy for the different challenges they present.
Personally, I solo queue and queue with 29s, and queue with good lvl 20s, whatever is available. My rating jumps all over the place accordingly. It's volatile, so it's best not to get too attached to it, UNLESS you're trying to push for top ladder ranking. (I'd like to do that myself once I find a partner who wants to do it with me.) In that case, stop both Option 1(quing wiht 29s), and Option 3(queing solo), for the duration of the attempt.
Queue dodging
Finally, I want to mention the strategy of "queue dodging," what it is, why I wouldn't do it, and why I think you shouldn't either.
Queue "dodging" refers to simply not queuing if you notice another team that you can't seem to beat is also queuing, in order to avoid losing rating to them. I doubt people dodge much in this bracket anyway; it's a concept I remember from max lvl years ago. But it could start here if people start caring about rating.
There are three reasons why I think you should NOT do that:
1) The first has nothing to do with honor, and is pure strategy: So many match-ups I've started losing the first 3-4 matches, and it seemed impossible to beat the other team. But, I've been doing this since long before there was a ladder, and without a ladder, there's no reason to dodge, so it never came up. So I would just keep trying, trying different ideas. Surprise, it is possible. I still hear good players casually remark that a certain comp seems unbeatable, and I smile thinking back on how I have learned to beat them. And I'm still learning. Almost everything is beatable. But you have to keep queuing against them, loss after loss, tanking your rating, until you figure it out. Once you figure it out, your rating will go right back up, even faster, and even farther. Learning those difficult strategies is exactly the best way to climb the ladder in the long run. Always sacrifice wins to gain skill. Then later, you'll gain rank against the teams that the other guys are dodging:
Double 29 BMs, beatable. 29 BM/WW, beatable. 29 healer/warrior, beatable. Double stealthy burst on your healer, beatable. Double 29 ret pallies, pretty easy actually.
2) The second reason I think you shouldn't queue dodge is that it's dishonorable. It's much more 'lame', imo., than queing with a lvl 29. Why? Well, the idea of a ladder is that it ranks the players in order of their ability to beat each other. If you dodge a team, you artificially both 'preserve' your rank higher than it should be, and effectively lower their rank by robbing them of a win they deserve, if they can beat you. You shouldn't want that.
But what about dodging 29s? If the 29s are that much stronger than you, they will have a proportionally higher rating, meaning if they beat you, you won't lose much rating anyway, and it's great practice to fight at a disadvantage. Still, if you dodge them to save that little bit of rating, but the other 20s don't, you are again, effectively distorting the ladder. It's a way of cheating.
(Philosophical point: All systems in both 'real life' and 'virtual life' are flawed. You can take advantage of those flaws to gain unfair advantage in some competition, and maybe nobody will know. But you will know. And it won't feel good to be that guy. I'd steal a loaf of bread to feed a starving child, and i'd feel good about it; the benefit out-weighs the cost. But how would it feel to become dishonorable just to bump your name up some list attempting to rank players' video game performance, thereby destroying the integrity of the list you are attempting to climb? If, as in politics, winning by hook or by crook is really winning, then it becomes more noble to lose, and you can reliably infer crookedness from height of one's position. That's not what we want for our little f2p WoW community.)
3) Fun. The third reason not to queue dodge. Um.. you have to stop queuing. And the reason you were queuing was for fun. (It's a video game; it's for fun.) If you stop queuing, you stop having the fun of playing and competing. And for what? Additionally, dodging makes it less fun for the other players too. It's a small bracket, and we already don't have enough players for variety and consistently fast queue times. So dodging cheats yourself and everybody else out of the fun you could all be having.
This was a long, rambling post, but you didn't have to read it
It's your fault. I blame you. See you all in the Arenaaa!!! /rawr Woo woo.