Stepping Up as Bracketmaster + 39 ARENA Night

anatomyx

Legend
Recently, people have probably noticed that I've been very vocal on TI, trying to think of different ways for the bracket to succeed because I want it to live as much as everyone else does.

That being said, since no one has done it yet, I'm going to step up as "bracketmaster" and keep things more organized at 39 in the future.

There's been a lot of talk about what NOT to do for the revival, but nothing really about what we can do to make it a success. First of all, the fact that we only play on one night is VERY bad. After you gear a 39 twink, there's one game night for a few hours every week, then there's basically nothing to do for the rest of the week while we wait for Saturday to roll around again. That's just not very appealing for anyone, especially for people who are regularly busy on Saturday nights. There's no way the bracket will survive on one night a week, it's impossible.

So I think it's very simple: we need more nights to play. But don't freak out just yet. I'm very aware of the damage that over-saturation can cause to a bracket like this, so we will keep our WSG night limited to SATURDAYS @ 6 PM EST.

What I'd like to do is create a 39 2v2 Arena Night.

This will help keep interest high during the long week we have to wait for Warsongs to pop again. Arenas are pretty fun here and a lot of players I know agree with me on this, so I think this is a good step to take if we're pushing to revive the bracket. This Arena Night will happen on a weekday so the game nights are more spread out. We'll start with one night but if it is a success for a few weeks, we can probably expand our Arena nights to twice a week without many issues due to how few players are required for arenas to pop, and faction imbalance does not matter. We can also discuss bringing it to 3v3 in the future, but for now I'd like to limit it to 2v2.

I've created two polls regarding an Arena night to help figure out when we should play, both of which will be on strawpoll because I know a lot of people do not have TI accounts or can't be bothered to log into them simply to vote on a poll. You can vote for multiple options so if several days/times work, select them all.


Which weekday night works best for an Arena Night for you: Straw Poll
What time would you like the Arena Night to start at: Straw Poll

On next SATURDAY when lots of people are checking TI, I'll announce the date and time for the Arena Nights based on the results, and we'll get them going every week along with our WSG nights.
 
Anatomyx, definitely a person who is not just striving for activity, but ORGANISED ACTIVITY WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF GAME PLAY. At the same time, hes passionate and always active to keep things in check not only in game but also on the forums, i for one agree with this change as i think it is definitely going to be a chance for the betterment of the bracket!

Good work Anatomyx!!!
 
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anatomyx said:
. After you gear a 39 twink, there's one game night for a few hours every week, .
Click to expand...

Fix this malady before splitting the original nights numbers by adding secondary wsg nights. If you only have 4 hours of games going, thats not enough. You literally need at least 8 hours straight of games to catch enough people's time schedules to solidify your player base and give the bracket some longevity. We've got Australians, drunkards who go out to the bar and want to come home at 2am and catch some games, soccer dads; all sorts of potential 39 tinks and tonks, a wider timeframe casts a wider net.

I appreciate your initiative, just beware the Danger Zone of splitting the que pool too thin.

https://youtu.be/d3D7Y_ycSms
 
I hope you don't take this the wrong way as I am coming from the most constructive point of criticism. The common denominators are that 39s want 39s to survive and flourish and have an ecstatic zeal to try to make that happen. But for one to succeed in a society one must understand the needs of the subjects before his or her own needs. This bracket is in a very very fragile state right now even coming from the successful state it was in Saturday night. People voting on polls and commenting on posts is very inconclusive when it comes to the actual people who would be Qing up on said day/days, it all boils down to if they feel to play on that day. Feelings, lets talk about that for a second....the hype,excitement, thrill, newness of Qing up Satuday was felt by many thus Saturday happened. But as easy as it is to feel excited it is to feel disappointed or hesitant, the point I'm getting at here is if we push 39s too much we might create a negative feedback where Qs don't pop at all due to an off day where Qs didn't pop. Thus a revival might become dead.
The bracket is like taking care of a baby, you have to pay close attention and listen to the small details, can't force it to walk even though you can, can't force it to eat even though you are hungry. I agree that there should be a bracket manager to have things organized, but he/she must be understanding of what he/she is working with not just what he/she wants. As I hate to oppose a scenario without giving back some ideas back here I go.
Firstly the initial step is already made, a revival happened. The second logical step would be to gain consistency and create a networking pool to better gain the opinions of the majorities. Such pool can be created in btag or consistent recruiting from guilds for the sole purpose of 39s. And the third step would be convenient/efficient scheduling to facilitate the needs of the majority. The main goal in all of this is to create a scenario that benefits the majority as it is the majority that will create the scenario.
 
Anatomyz is just trying to prevent the bracket getting stale, which it has a history of doing when it comes to revivals. You want people to be committed, yes, but you also want them to have options, reasons to want to be more involved. Arena and the possibility of a twink cup is a good way to bring fresh enthusiasm for 39s.

Several guilds are quietly making 39 rosters for premades and future tournaments, because while pugs are good and probably the general lifeblood of the bracket, they also wear out incredibly quickly. The possibility of intense 10v10 guild matches are what is going to keep it going in the long run.
 
Shaket said:
Fix this malady before splitting the original nights numbers by adding secondary wsg nights. If you only have 4 hours of games going, thats not enough. You literally need at least 8 hours straight of games to catch enough people's time schedules to solidify your player base and give the bracket some longevity. We've got Australians, drunkards who go out to the bar and want to come home at 2am and catch some games, soccer dads; all sorts of potential 39 tinks and tonks, a wider timeframe casts a wider net.

I appreciate your initiative, just beware the Danger Zone of splitting the que pool too thin.
Click to expand...

I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but at the same time I think it's very unreasonable to expect us to be able to sustain ~8 hours of queue times, especially with how new the bracket is. It can be a very big problem to push for this as well. Say for example we said games were going to be scheduled from 2 PM EST -> 10 PM EST which is an 8 hour window.

This allows players to be more "lazy" for when they log on and play ("well, games will still be happening for a long time so I'll just log on and play in a few hours") and all that will lead to is less games overall, and less players online at one time. Instead of ~70 players online with 3 Warsongs happening at once, we'll end up with ~30 players online and 1 Warsong, and also potentially experience times when there are not enough players for a game at all. It's a lot more reassuring to check your friends list and see players in a WSG rather than check it and see everyone still sitting in queue.

I think the time we have set for WSG night is very good currently. Saturday night is a time where a lot of people have free time. However for players in other areas of the world, the unfortunate reality is that if you'd like to participate, you'll have to either wake up early (Australians) or stay up late (Europeans). Eventually, queue times will simply extend themselves as more players become interested in playing and have more fun.


paynefull said:
I hope you don't take this the wrong way as I am coming from the most constructive point of criticism. The common denominators are that 39s want 39s to survive and flourish and have an ecstatic zeal to try to make that happen. But for one to succeed in a society one must understand the needs of the subjects before his or her own needs. This bracket is in a very very fragile state right now even coming from the successful state it was in Saturday night. People voting on polls and commenting on posts is very inconclusive when it comes to the actual people who would be Qing up on said day/days, it all boils down to if they feel to play on that day. Feelings, lets talk about that for a second....the hype,excitement, thrill, newness of Qing up Satuday was felt by many thus Saturday happened. But as easy as it is to feel excited it is to feel disappointed or hesitant, the point I'm getting at here is if we push 39s too much we might create a negative feedback where Qs don't pop at all due to an off day where Qs didn't pop. Thus a revival might become dead.
The bracket is like taking care of a baby, you have to pay close attention and listen to the small details, can't force it to walk even though you can, can't force it to eat even though you are hungry. I agree that there should be a bracket manager to have things organized, but he/she must be understanding of what he/she is working with not just what he/she wants. As I hate to oppose a scenario without giving back some ideas back here I go.
Firstly the initial step is already made, a revival happened. The second logical step would be to gain consistency and create a networking pool to better gain the opinions of the majorities. Such pool can be created in btag or consistent recruiting from guilds for the sole purpose of 39s. And the third step would be convenient/efficient scheduling to facilitate the needs of the majority. The main goal in all of this is to create a scenario that benefits the majority as it is the majority that will create the scenario.
Click to expand...

I won't be offended by what you say, don't worry. I like discussions and I'd be happy to talk with people more if they have things they'd like to talk about.

Anyway, first of all I'm not pushing for what I personally want. Due to my schedule, I will not even be able to take part in the vast majority of Arena queue nights on weekdays that I am trying to set up, but regardless of that I still think it's a great idea to help grow the bracket. Even if there aren't huge numbers participating on the Arena night, all it takes is roughly 10 players to get some diversity in the queues, and faction DOES NOT matter unlike WSG where faction imbalance can become a major issue and proceed to kill the games.

Secondly, it's highly implausible to regulate bracket activities to due "feelings" of players, and that's something that I definitely will not be making an effort to do. If some people aren't down to play on queue night, then there's nothing anyone can do about it, and hopefully there will still be numbers to get games going regardless. Allowing the players who have less interest and "don't feel like playing today" to essentially regulate the bracket is a horrible idea no matter how you look at it.

On top of that, if we try to shift things around it will do nothing but lead to confusion. Consistency is key, and creating more opportunities for players to enjoy themselves is what will keep the consistency going. This is the exact reason I am trying to push for an Arena night and premades; so there is more for people to look forward to rather than just pug WSG games once per week.

I'd like TI to the place people go to find info on the bracket. I'm not going to clear out my friends list in order to add 50 different 39 players to my battletag and spam real id messages whenever games happen. If other people would like to do it then by all means go ahead, but I personally don't think it's necessary. It's very simple for people to check these forums, and if we get all 39 players to check TI more often it will likely cause a lot more discussion as well which is obviously a good thing.
 
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Sudo, keep up the great work. Bracketmasta is not an easy job and requires a lot of patience. You seem to be on the right track. I agree with you that one night a week is not going to get people's mojo moving. There is a reason that these revivals never work. That is because there is not enough days to play for the casuals, and there is not enough committed 39's to get more days (the regulars).

Here is a typical casual player's thinking. "They play one or two days a week, and that one day I can only play two hours. Why should I waste time gearing a twink for maybe two hours?"

Here is a regular player's thinking. "I like 39's a lot. It is my favorite bracket. I also play 19's, 29's, 70's, and some end game. I will play 39's one or two nights, then do the other things every other night that I can play."

So what you get is regular's not having the time to spend on one bracket but a few days, and the casuals not even bothering to waste their time in most cases.

Here is the solution, and it will require some giving up on other things.

You need two guilds. You have one. You need another horde side. It needs to be a competitive, yet friendly rivalry between the two guilds.

You need to find 30-40 people that can commit to 39's at least four days a week. The more days they can commit the better. That means they might have to give up 19's, 29's, or 70. You need those two guilds playing arenas, war games, premades, WSG, leveling, gearing, etc nearly every day.

Once others see these two guilds doing fun things they will want to join in as well. Next thing you know another guild pops up. A casual player then sees that he can play more and he jumps in. It spreads from there.......

In short, you need committed guys to 39's. Without it, you will always have one of two nights. Then it will die off in a month or two.

So what I have to ask is are you committed to 39's, because I know you have a lot of hats in other places? If so, do you think you can get 30-40 guys to make that commitment along with you?
 
anatomyx said:
Recently, people have probably noticed that I've been very vocal on TI, trying to think of different ways for the bracket to succeed because I want it to live as much as everyone else does.

That being said, since no one has done it yet, I'm going to step up as "bracketmaster" and keep things more organized at 39 in the future.

There's been a lot of talk about what NOT to do for the revival, but nothing really about what we can do to make it a success. First of all, the fact that we only play on one night is VERY bad. After you gear a 39 twink, there's one game night for a few hours every week, then there's basically nothing to do for the rest of the week while we wait for Saturday to roll around again. That's just not very appealing for anyone, especially for people who are regularly busy on Saturday nights. There's no way the bracket will survive on one night a week, it's impossible.

So I think it's very simple: we need more nights to play. But don't freak out just yet. I'm very aware of the damage that over-saturation can cause to a bracket like this, so we will keep our WSG night limited to SATURDAYS @ 6 PM EST.

What I'd like to do is create a 39 2v2 Arena Night.

This will help keep interest high during the long week we have to wait for Warsongs to pop again. Arenas are pretty fun here and a lot of players I know agree with me on this, so I think this is a good step to take if we're pushing to revive the bracket. This Arena Night will happen on a weekday so the game nights are more spread out. We'll start with one night but if it is a success for a few weeks, we can probably expand our Arena nights to twice a week without many issues due to how few players are required for arenas to pop, and faction imbalance does not matter. We can also discuss bringing it to 3v3 in the future, but for now I'd like to limit it to 2v2.

I've created two polls regarding an Arena night to help figure out when we should play, both of which will be on strawpoll because I know a lot of people do not have TI accounts or can't be bothered to log into them simply to vote on a poll. You can vote for multiple options so if several days/times work, select them all.


Which weekday night works best for an Arena Night for you: Straw Poll
What time would you like the Arena Night to start at: Straw Poll

On next SATURDAY when lots of people are checking TI, I'll announce the date and time for the Arena Nights based on the results, and we'll get them going every week along with our WSG nights.
Click to expand...

You have my vote of confidence. But yes, I did freak out for a second
 
m8 i dun h8 but as long as you bring about moar locks and mages and less enh/bms; i continue to subbort you w/out h8.
 
More people queue 2s!! It's so fun >: D
 
skeeza00 said:
Sudo, keep up the great work. Bracketmasta is not an easy job and requires a lot of patience. You seem to be on the right track. I agree with you that one night a week is not going to get people's mojo moving. There is a reason that these revivals never work. That is because there is not enough days to play for the casuals, and there is not enough committed 39's to get more days (the regulars).

Here is a typical casual player's thinking. "They play one or two days a week, and that one day I can only play two hours. Why should I waste time gearing a twink for maybe two hours?"

Here is a regular player's thinking. "I like 39's a lot. It is my favorite bracket. I also play 19's, 29's, 70's, and some end game. I will play 39's one or two nights, then do the other things every other night that I can play."

So what you get is regular's not having the time to spend on one bracket but a few days, and the casuals not even bothering to waste their time in most cases.

Here is the solution, and it will require some giving up on other things.

You need two guilds. You have one. You need another horde side. It needs to be a competitive, yet friendly rivalry between the two guilds.

You need to find 30-40 people that can commit to 39's at least four days a week. The more days they can commit the better. That means they might have to give up 19's, 29's, or 70. You need those two guilds playing arenas, war games, premades, WSG, leveling, gearing, etc nearly every day.

Once others see these two guilds doing fun things they will want to join in as well. Next thing you know another guild pops up. A casual player then sees that he can play more and he jumps in. It spreads from there.......

In short, you need committed guys to 39's. Without it, you will always have one of two nights. Then it will die off in a month or two.

So what I have to ask is are you committed to 39's, because I know you have a lot of hats in other places? If so, do you think you can get 30-40 guys to make that commitment along with you?
Click to expand...

I am not Sudo, but thanks regardless :p

But yeah, I'm aware of the time and effort it's going to take to keep things moving. A big problem will likely be what you said: finding a guild to compete with us. If we can get that in place, things (hopefully) become easier. We have time though, I don't think its a big rush to have that pop up immediately, and there's only so much I can do to make a different guild actually happen. We can recruit groups of players but ultimately it's up to them whether they enjoy the bracket or not, so I feel it's mainly my job to ensure that they will enjoy themselves rather than babysit people through a guild creation process.

As for your question of commitment, at the moment 39s are the only thing I have any interest in playing. Regardless of my "success" at 19, I don't enjoy the gameplay there enough to stick around in pugs. The same for 29s and 99s, both of which I've played recently. I'm a competitive-minded person, and casual pug games only keep my interest for so long. As for 100, I feel as though the gameplay is really poor right now in both RBGs and arenas, and I have no motivation to even bother gearing my characters. If 39s die out, it's highly likely that I'll just stop playing until the new expansion.

Anyway, even though I'm the "bracketmaster" there's really only so much I can do for 39s. I can do my best to keep things rolling and introduce new things, but after all is said and done it's the community as a whole that decides if the bracket will live or die.
 
Im all for an arena night. 100% behind this initiative. As a bracket soccer dad (minus the annoying kids) Saturday is really the only night I can sit down for the hours and play some WSG. But during the week? Im sure I can wrangle Yoube for some quick arena matches. Or just find another healbot.

I will say, please avoid the inclination to say "holy shit, we have 20 people on, lets swap to WSG". Just stick to arenas on arena night.

Man this is exciting. I was ready to let my subscription expire because no other bracket really holds my attention. But this. You GUUUUUUUUUUYS! This is awesome.
 
Chops said:
I will say, please avoid the inclination to say "holy shit, we have 20 people on, lets swap to WSG". Just stick to arenas on arena night.
Click to expand...

This

%100 back anatomy on his decisions and think a arena night is going to be incredible but do not turn that around into a wsg night.

I really wish someone had documented all of the revivals/bracketmasters decision with the demise they all fell to (additional game night that failed with a sharp decline of activity following). Literally. Every. Damn. Time.

WTB 39 History book
 
Shook said:
This

%100 back anatomy on his decisions and think a arena night is going to be incredible but do not turn that around into a wsg night.

I really wish someone had documented all of the revivals/bracketmasters decision with the demise they all fell to (additional game night that failed with a sharp decline of activity following). Literally. Every. Damn. Time.

WTB 39 History book
Click to expand...

Especially when combined with that of old 29 revivals. One of which went from 3 nights to 4 nights to 1 night in a matter of weeks. (may have been 2 to three to one, but you get the idea)
It is good to see the heir apparent is taking note of the past while thinking of ways to encourage the future.
[MENTION=1052]Bwappo[/MENTION] perhaps we should get to work on an oral history
 
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