so...anyone tried the faction change service yet?

[Balroy]

agreed. not BiS for anyone imo...

if you want max spell power set for shaman or druid, go for it!

if you want accuracy on a rogue (hit should be a wasted stat by now) go for it!

if you want to go fury - lol - and use a dagger - lol - on ur warrior go for it!

uhhh what else...pallys cant use daggers.

for mages/locks if you want max sp i guess



think that about covers it. in most cases the stats given by other weapons outweighs the bit more spell power u can get with the LK chants. and for melee i hear berzerker sucks at proccing (specially in the OH), so that leaves accuracy (wasted hit, but nice crit) or 65 AP. its your RL $ and in game gold, so go for it if you want!



also i dont think anyone has confirmed it'll even work yet. afaik when u go from horde to alliance with it, it might be red/unusable since the alliance version requires at least lvl 50 to get that part of the quest chain. its a gamble at this point, and all for a gimmick imo.

What is a better OH than that weapon with 65ap on it for Hunters, and even Ambush Rogues?

None.

 

[Falkor]

id rather use doomforged, widowmaker, or wsg blade as a rogue. unless ur going for a max AP set i liked the more balanced stats the others provide (and weapon swaps eat a GCD so i dont like it)



for a hunter id rather take a weapon like a rib with int for the int and AP rolled into one, except you really wanted a max ap set again. i just dont see it as BiS, but then again it doesnt matter for me b/c all my twinks are alliance and im not gonna shell out 30$ to go horDe

 

[Balroy]

I can't say much about it for Rogues except if they want best possible Ambush damage.



But for Horde Hunters it is by far the best. With Trueshot aura it is a Savagery enchant on a 1 hander.

 

[Pelmeni]

id rather use doomforged, widowmaker, or wsg blade as a rogue. unless ur going for a max AP set i liked the more balanced stats the others provide (and weapon swaps eat a GCD so i dont like it)



for a hunter id rather take a weapon like a rib with int for the int and AP rolled into one, except you really wanted a max ap set again. i just dont see it as BiS, but then again it doesnt matter for me b/c all my twinks are alliance and im not gonna shell out 30$ to go horDe

Balance stats with other items, 65 AP dagger is BiS OH for rogues by a long shot.

 

[glancealot]

any rogue that gets that dagger with 65 AP has no clue what he is doing!



assuming that 1 agility is 2 AP, 1 stam is 2 AP. (using the AEP formula)



7/7 monkey ribby with 20 agi gives you (7+7+20)*2+10=78, which is better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



heck, since we are trying to maximize AP, let's just say 1 agility is 2 AP, but we ignore stamina almost completely, say, 2 stam= 1 AP, even then



we have [item]Vanquisher's Sword[/item] with 20 agility that gives you 28+20*2=68, which is a little bit better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



11 agi ribby with 20 agi gives you (11+20)*2+10=72, which is better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



even 7/7 monkey ribby with 20 agi gives you (7+20)*2+7/2+10=67.5, which is still better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



but that's not the point, if a rogue does get the felbane weapon, get berserking, or deathfrost or even icebreaker



after all, why would you get a dagger with 0 stat then put a stat enchant on it? you go through all those trouble, pay all that gold, just to get something that's not even BiS, that's just lame.



@warlocks,



if you put deathfrost (which does proc off dots now!) on your felbane weapon, your opponent will probably be permanently slowed by 15%(movement/casting/attack), that's like free curse of exhaustion at all times!(proc chance 50%, no internal CD)

 

[Pelmeni]

any rogue that gets that dagger with 65 AP has no clue what he is doing!



assuming that 1 agility is 2 AP, 1 stam is 2 AP.



7/7 monkey ribby with 20 agi gives you (7+7+20)*2+10=78, which is better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



heck, since we are trying to maximize AP, let's just say 1 agility is 2 AP, but we ignore stamina almost completely, say, 2 stam= 1 AP, even then



we have [item]Vanquisher's Sword[/item] with 20 agility that gives you 28+20*2=68, which is a little bit better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



11 agi ribby with 20 agi gives you (11+20)*2+10=72, which is better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



even 7/7 monkey ribby with 20 agi gives you (7+20)*2+7/2+10=67.5, which is still better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.



but that's not the point, if a rogue does get the felbane weapon, get berserking, or deathfrost or even icebreaker



after all, why would you get a dagger with 0 stat then put a stat enchant on it? you go through all those trouble, pay all that gold, just to get something that's not even BiS, that's just lame.



@warlocks,



if you put deathfrost (which does proc off dots now!) on your felbane weapon, your opponent will probably be permanently slowed by 15%(movement/casting/attack), that's like free curse of exhaustion at all times!(proc chance 50%, no internal CD)

1 agility is 1 AP.

 

[glancealot]

1 agility is 1 AP.

1 agi is also 2 armor some dodge some crit. to be exact, at 49, for rogues



1 agi= 0.044 crit, or 23 agi = 1% crit

1 agi = 0.064 dodge, or 15.5 agi = 1% dodge



might wanna do your homework before posting stuff



AEP: Agility Equivalence Points



short version:

Around May of 2005, Ming started a thread on the Rogue forums where he was devising an Agility comparison system for comparing gear using the formula 10 Agility = 10 Stamina = 20 Strength = 20 Attack Power = 1% Crit. One of the first people who responded to the thread coined the phrase "Agility Equivalence Points" and his formula has been know as AEP ever since.

 

[Falkor]

since when is 1 sta = 2 ap?

 

[Pelmeni]

1 agi is also 2 armor some dodge some crit. to be exact, at 49, for rogues



1 agi= 0.044 crit, or 23 agi = 1% crit

1 agi = 0.064 dodge, or 15.5 agi = 1% dodge



might wanna do your homework before posting stuff



AEP: Agility Equivalence Points



short version:

1 agility is 1 AP.



we have [Vanquisher's Sword] with 20 agility that gives you 28+20*2=68, which is a little bit better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.





Actually it gives you 28+20 = 48 which is less the 65.



The dodge and armor provided from agility really have no bearing on stats choices.





Don't tell me to do my homework when you think Vanquisher's Sword wit h20 agility gives 68 attack power.

 

[glancealot]

1 agility is 1 AP.



we have [Vanquisher's Sword] with 20 agility that gives you 28+20*2=68, which is a little bit better than the 65 AP felbane dagger.





Actually it gives you 28+20 = 48 which is less the 65.



The dodge and armor provided from agility really have no bearing on stats choices.





Don't tell me to do my homework when you think Vanquisher's Sword wit h20 agility gives 68 attack power.

did i say 68 attack power?



no, i said 68, with no unit, because i was calculating the AEP points.



i don't think you get the idea of "AEP"...



again read AEP: Agility Equivalence Points if you are confused.

1 agility is 1 AP





The dodge and armor and crit provided from agility really have no bearing on stats choices.

you are hopelessly lost then

 

[glancealot]

since when is 1 sta = 2 ap?

AEP: Agility Equivalence Points

 

[Pelmeni]

did i say 68 attack power?



no, i said 68, with no unit, because i was calculating the AEP points.



i don't think you get the idea of "AEP"...



again read AEP: Agility Equivalence Points if you are confused.







you are hopelessly lost then

The only thing that really matters is the Crit, and 65 AP is hard to pass up, you can pick up crit with other items.

 

[Balroy]

You could also put Berserking on that dagger/sword/staff.

 

[Falkor]

AEP is teh suck, no complex bullspit for me pl0x



also berzerking seems like a waste from what ive heard (low proc rate, especially in the OH) and id rather have a stat enchant to make up for lack of stats, instead of a proc enchant and no stats

 

[glancealot]

AEP is teh suck, no complex bullspit for me pl0x



also berzerking seems like a waste from what ive heard (low proc rate, especially in the OH) and id rather have a stat enchant to make up for lack of stats, instead of a proc enchant and no stats

if you call that complex BS then i am taking a lot of even more complex BS's this semester:

math isn't that bad imo...i wonder why are there so many innumeracy people in this world.

 

[Taitaih]

Berserking has a terrible proc rate. I have it, tried it... Stick with something static or mongoose in your OH and you'll be better off.



On AEP values, 1 agi = 1 AEP .... 1 Attack power = 0.60 AEP ..... 1 stam=0.5AEP.... Now remember that this table is meant for endgame pvp and provides a rough estimate os what weapons or gear you can use.



If were gonna calculate this from an AEP point of view, stick with the AEP chart instead of re-calculating the chart. 1 agi = 1AEP always

 

[glancealot]

Berserking has a terrible proc rate. I have it, tried it... Stick with something static or mongoose in your OH and you'll be better off.



On AEP values, 1 agi = 1 AEP .... 1 Attack power = 0.60 AEP ..... 1 stam=0.5AEP....

you didn't realize that the current AEP that you mentioned is for level 80's. in fact, you didn't know that the AEP system has changed a lot because of BC and WotLK, did you? (imo, unless you have played a class a lot, don't pretend that you know a lot about it) we should stick to the AEP formula used in vanilla wow, because, well, we are below 60 aren't we? and in fact, nowadays level 49 twinks have roughly the same stats as old school shadowcraft 60 rogues, so the old school AEP formula suits us very well.



therefore, we should use the original one, which is



"10 Agility = 10 Stamina = 20 Strength = 20 Attack Power = 1% Crit"



regarding crit rating and hit rating that didn't exist in vanilla wow, with some simple math maneuvering, you can figure out the AEP equivalent of those very quickly



22.7 agi is 1% crit at 49, 11 crit rating is 1% crit at 49, so



1 AEP = 1 crit rating



since 1 hit is 1.5 crit, before you hit 5%,



1 hit rating = 1.5 AEP

 

[Taitaih]

Did I not say that keep in mind this formula is used for endgame pvp and is mearly a rough estimate? Way to cut that point out of my quote. I've actually been playing a rogue since prebc, but you can assume what you want right?



IMHO we need something different for our bracket... Pvp gear varies much differently from arena gear (at least I believe from watching Crue play). After watching hemo rogues in BC argue about agi vs ap it's not something that I care to partake in again. I don't believe that 1 agi = 2 ap is 100% accurate, nor do I trust I the current AEP system either. There is a crit % and stam that rogues should strive for, then from there stack AP. If you can wangle the +65 AP then by all means, but if the WSG dagger with +20 agi is what you need to go over the crit mark, then use that.

 

[Taitaih]

I'll check out Deathfrost on my 80 priest tonight, not going to replace my +63 spellpower if I'm just going to switch it back on my lock. Recount shots later

 

[glancealot]

I'll check out Deathfrost on my 80 priest tonight, not going to replace my +63 spellpower if I'm just going to switch it back on my lock. Recount shots later

make sure you do extensive testing, in other words, make sure the sample is large enough to convince the readers



thanks in advance!



if it does work out, you need to thank me then