Shadowfang bis?
- Thread starter Tchobii
- Start date
necroaqua
Grandfathered
For rogues - BiS offhand. Mainhand, you'd prefer the BG crate blue (or warforged legion invasion wep if you have it).
For monks, I *think* they don't use weapon damage. But I haven't looked at a monk since WoD. If they don't use weapon damage, then dual shadowfangs is BiS. If they do, then same as rogues.
Edit: Also note the ilvl 23 versions appear to have the exact same stats. So those would be the same.
For monks, I *think* they don't use weapon damage. But I haven't looked at a monk since WoD. If they don't use weapon damage, then dual shadowfangs is BiS. If they do, then same as rogues.
Edit: Also note the ilvl 23 versions appear to have the exact same stats. So those would be the same.
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OP
OP
Tchobii
Legend
so i should use the my ilvl 30 invasion wep and shadowfang then ?
necroaqua
Grandfathered
Thats what I'm doing.
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For 20-29. This is the 10-19 forums.
OP
OP
Tchobii
Legend
Girl
Legend
No ilvl 25 SF was nerfed to ilvl 23. ilvl 24 is Grandfathered SF.
necroaqua
Grandfathered
Do we know that its GFd? Do SFK chests now drop ilvl 23 versions?
Girl
Legend
I forgot about the chest method. That should still be the same ilvl24
Bestworld
MBA
Yes 24 fang is GF'd.
Shadowfang is 6 agility and 8 shadow bolt dmg on proc, but a slow weapon.
BG dagger is 3 vers 2 crit or 4 vers (BiS versions). Dagger being a faster off-hand means more elemental force procs.
Goblin screwdriver is 5 or 6 agility depending on the version, which makes it just as good as shadowfang (stat-wise). However, same deal, it's a faster weapon in your off-hand, which means faster elemental force procs.
I would say on initial openers and burst rotation, shadowfang is going to be better due to it hitting harder than a dagger in off-hand, as well as being able to proc a shadow bolt, and give you a little bit better sinister and dispatch. However, should a fight drag out, a dagger might be better due to the extra elemental force procs.
Shadowfang is 6 agility and 8 shadow bolt dmg on proc, but a slow weapon.
BG dagger is 3 vers 2 crit or 4 vers (BiS versions). Dagger being a faster off-hand means more elemental force procs.
Goblin screwdriver is 5 or 6 agility depending on the version, which makes it just as good as shadowfang (stat-wise). However, same deal, it's a faster weapon in your off-hand, which means faster elemental force procs.
I would say on initial openers and burst rotation, shadowfang is going to be better due to it hitting harder than a dagger in off-hand, as well as being able to proc a shadow bolt, and give you a little bit better sinister and dispatch. However, should a fight drag out, a dagger might be better due to the extra elemental force procs.
necroaqua
Grandfathered
Isn't ele force PPM? If it is, then it doesn't really matter. If it isn't, I'm not sure whether faster offhand or SF procs would help more.
And the scaled Assassin's Blade and Talon of Vultros are 5agi/2crit, which would also be considerations for a dagger offhand. WSG dagger is 5agi/2stam for a quick/cheap option.
Bestworld
MBA
That 1 extra agi is difference between +1 or -1 sinister strike. Dispatch damage remains the same however.
Elemental force is around 10 RPPM I think, but dagger should still force those initial procs faster.
OP
OP
Tchobii
Legend
So shouldnt like heirloom dagger be better then shadowfang then?
since it will procc more EFs
Swoops
Legend
Monks did get weapon damage added back to all their abilities in bfa (it was a big issue for their endgame pve scaling in legion). Not sure exactly how it works for them now, it definitely does matter though.
Tonkks
Tônks
... elemental force is PPM.. this means it does not matter at all how fast your main hand is, it should, in theory, proc the same number of times in a minute (White hits). This means the exact opposite of what you said, @Bestworld. Because it is on a PPM basis, it takes your weapon speed and figures how many times that weapon attacks in a minute. Fiery weapon, for example, used to be Bis back in the day because it was 7 PPM. The game takes into account those 7 procs, and divides them into the number of times your weapon will hit in a minute.
Because of this, a slower weapon will have a higher chance *per hit* than a dagger will to proc the enchant, because it will attack less times in a one minute period.
However, your abilities do not take into account weapon speed in this way. When you sinister strike, the same energy is consumed with a sword and a dagger. This means that if you want to get ele force procs from a weapon, you will usually get a lot of procs when you open, because your weapons are attacking multiple times with a full bar of energy. This is enhanced when you use a slower sword, because it has a higher “chance” per hit, due to having less attacks in a minute.
Poisons are completely different- as they operate with a certain percentage for each attack. In this case, you will get more poison procs in a minute, due to having more attacks in a minute.
This is at least how I remember things operating on PPM. If things have changed please get me back up to speed.
What is interesting about shadow fang is that the shadow bolt proc operates as its own seperate attack- which means it can proc ele force as well as hidden satyr. We have yet to have any tangible tests done, but the gameplay feels like shadow bolt procs seem to give me ele force procs commonly.
Because of this, a slower weapon will have a higher chance *per hit* than a dagger will to proc the enchant, because it will attack less times in a one minute period.
However, your abilities do not take into account weapon speed in this way. When you sinister strike, the same energy is consumed with a sword and a dagger. This means that if you want to get ele force procs from a weapon, you will usually get a lot of procs when you open, because your weapons are attacking multiple times with a full bar of energy. This is enhanced when you use a slower sword, because it has a higher “chance” per hit, due to having less attacks in a minute.
Poisons are completely different- as they operate with a certain percentage for each attack. In this case, you will get more poison procs in a minute, due to having more attacks in a minute.
This is at least how I remember things operating on PPM. If things have changed please get me back up to speed.
What is interesting about shadow fang is that the shadow bolt proc operates as its own seperate attack- which means it can proc ele force as well as hidden satyr. We have yet to have any tangible tests done, but the gameplay feels like shadow bolt procs seem to give me ele force procs commonly.
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Bestworld
MBA
No, because you lose out on agi and shadow bolt proc as well. The only daggers I would consider is ilvl 23 Goblin Screwdriver or BG dagger (3 vers 2 crit).
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I was talking off-hand speed, not main-hand.
And looking at long dragged out fights, I noticed more ele force procs on off-hand daggers than I did with off-hand shadowfang for instance.
altelie
Legend
The enchant is PPM based, which means it procs proportional to your weapon speed. This means that the proc rate is independent of the weapon speed, regardless of being in main-hand or off-hand. In my opinion, I would go for SF offhand in an optimal sense, however my personal playstyle is to maximise versatility.
Tonkks
Tônks
With white hits representing a large % of our damage.. I really am curious how close these two are to each other. Do you have a level 19 goblin screwdriver?