Rogues: Weapon Enchants

smileoftheshadow

OG
Crusader/Lifestealing vs. AP/Agility. Which do you find more helpful and why? Just getting the discussion going since there seems to be a lot of personal preference on this.
 
+5 dmg MH, 15 OH
 
Pållynåtor said:
+5 dmg MH, 15 OH
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This.



I hate relying on weapon procs, I would rather have +15agi over a crusader/lifestealing anyday.
 
For swords Lifestealing MH 15 agi offhand is the best overall way to go. If you're in a premade, or going for top dps, fiery mainhand 15 agi offhand is the best mathematically.



For daggers, as most said it's +5 dmg mh, 15 agi oh.



Crusader is always bad for a rogue. Never ever ever use crusader. Unless you bad, then its fine.
 
I've tried them all (in the 19's at least) and found that it's hard to beat the benefits of +15 agility to both weapons. The lifestealing always sounds good, but the return is hardly noticeable (at least for me). Firey and Icy are into enchants not worth doing on a real weapon, and I never seemed to get a proc on Crusader, so I overwrote it.
 
Rayekk said:
I've tried them all (in the 19's at least) and found that it's hard to beat the benefits of +15 agility to both weapons. The lifestealing always sounds good, but the return is hardly noticeable (at least for me). Firey and Icy are into enchants not worth doing on a real weapon, and I never seemed to get a proc on Crusader, so I overwrote it.
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LS, and Fiery are > 15 agi on mainhand. Lets do a little arithmetic here.



14 ap = 1 dps

1 agi = 1 ap

15/14 = 1.07 dps



Fiery is 6 ppm with 40 dmg per proc

6 * 40 = 240 dpm

240 / 60 = 4 dps



LS is 6 ppm with 30 ls per proc

6 * 30 = 180 dpm

6 * 30 = 180 hpm

180/60 = 3 dps + 3 hps. (in the standard hp5, that is 15, which is a ton)



Sure, the agi also adds crit, which is a different amount at each level, but it doesnt come remotely close to adding 3 more dps to come close to the dps capabilities of fiery, and the dodge from the agi doesn't come close to the hp benefit from LS, not to mention the 2 extra dps that LS offers.



+5 to mh on a dagger rogue is a much different story. It's BY FAR the best chant in slot. Lets try a lil more math.



Torturing poker - 1.7 speed

60 / 1.7 = 35.29 attacks per min

35.29 * 5 = 176.47 dpm

176.47 / 60 = 2.94 dps



while this may look like it doesnt deal as much as fiery, the kicker is the backstab and ambush multipliers that shoots the +5 through the roof, since backstab and ambush obviously dont calculate fiery or ls procs into them.



Just for the goof I'll show why crusader is nub

1 PPM 100 str for 15 seconds and 75-125 heal

1 str = 1 ap

100 / 14 = 7.14

60 / 15 = 4

7.14 / 4 = 1.75 dps

(75 + 125) / 2 = 100

100 / 60 = 1.65 hps



So crusader is less hps and less dps than ls. Hmmm. That sounds like a great option.
 
yea crusader has never been a smart option for rogues



though i haven't twinked a rogue yet, i always thought i'd have 2 mh weapons - one with fiery for killing fcs with the debuff and one with lifestealing for the rest of the time.



and 15 agi to oh of course :)



for 19s, that is
 
i see alot of ppm math quotes, like crusader having 1 ppm and LS having 6ppm. i have seen comments that crusader is for slower weapons and not for daggers.



my GM has a 19 twink rogue, he has a assassin's blade with crusader on it and scout's blade with 15 agi. players flame him for that, funny thing is i got the assassin's blade for 125G off a enchanter and crusader was already on it.

also on a note, he has cruel barb, thief's blade, wingblade as change out weapons.



one day while we where ganking alliance in ratchet with our twinks, a rival horde twink-19 warrior showed, he was full boat, fishing hat/boots, nightreaver w/crusader, etc. he told my GM he was a noob for having crusader on a dagger, that it will rarely or never proc. the warrior challenged my GM to a duel.



they dueled, in the duel the warrior got one crusader proc right at the start, my GM during the fight proc'd crusader 4 times....yes 4 times. i guarantee you the fight didn't last 4 minutes. my GM won, and the warrior said in say: "lucky crusader procs" i whispered the warrior, i said "so crusader isn't supposed to proc on a dagger" he responded "guess, they are wrong"



i have BG'd with my GM and this warrior, and both are good.
 
The warrior said it - lucky crusader procs.



That same amount of luck should have wielded 24 procs of lifestealing, meaning up to 720 damage and 720 healed.



It's not that rogues can't benefit from crusader; in fact its procs help them out well. It's that it's balanced to not be OP on warriors and paladins, and they receive twice as much dps boost as you. The other enchantments that aren't gimped on your class will be more effective.
 
shanker said:
i see alot of ppm math quotes, like crusader having 1 ppm and LS having 6ppm. i have seen comments that crusader is for slower weapons and not for daggers.



my GM has a 19 twink rogue, he has a assassin's blade with crusader on it and scout's blade with 15 agi. players flame him for that, funny thing is i got the assassin's blade for 125G off a enchanter and crusader was already on it.

also on a note, he has cruel barb, thief's blade, wingblade as change out weapons.



one day while we where ganking alliance in ratchet with our twinks, a rival horde twink-19 warrior showed, he was full boat, fishing hat/boots, nightreaver w/crusader, etc. he told my GM he was a noob for having crusader on a dagger, that it will rarely or never proc. the warrior challenged my GM to a duel.



they dueled, in the duel the warrior got one crusader proc right at the start, my GM during the fight proc'd crusader 4 times....yes 4 times. i guarantee you the fight didn't last 4 minutes. my GM won, and the warrior said in say: "lucky crusader procs" i whispered the warrior, i said "so crusader isn't supposed to proc on a dagger" he responded "guess, they are wrong"



i have BG'd with my GM and this warrior, and both are good.
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Your gm is a nub.



1 duel where someone got a bunch of lucky procs is not > math. No one ever said crusader cant proc on daggers. It has 1 PPM on fast weapons as well as slow weapons. Thats why its not PPH its PPM. Its not a matter of if it can proc off of daggers, its a matter of will it be better on average than the other enchants, and that is a definite no. +5 dmg is the best chant on ass blade. Tell your gm to rechant it and l2p.
 
Kazin said:
So crusader is less hps and less dps than ls. Hmmm. That sounds like a great option.
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Did you calculate the extra dmg a Crusader proc does on the offhand in?



I don't think Crusader is bad for a rogue. It surely is better burst than all the other enchants when it procs. And it heals for a large chunk which can save your life. And you can Vanish with the proc and do a really hefty Ambush. It all comes down to preference i guess.
 
dual fieries or fiery/15 agil for dps

5 wpn/15 agil for ambushes and backstabs

15 agil/15 agil against melee

LS/15 agil for general



just IMO
 
Druiddroid said:
dual fieries or fiery/15 agil for dps

5 wpn/15 agil for ambushes and backstabs

15 agil/15 agil against melee

LS/15 agil for general



just IMO
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This works.
 
And of course any dagger you're going to put in your main hand needs +5 weapon damage.
 
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