rogue tactics question 0/0/10

sk8g0at

OG
i see a lot of rogues running 0/0/10 and not using daggers. i guess i don't understand this play style. are you just sapping/garrote as an opener or what's the benefit of the mobility and range of your stealth when you lose out on dual weild, malice and some of the other talent benefits.



i've been looking at recount and 48% of my dmg is white. followed closely by sinister strike at around 25-30% i'd think you'd be losing a lot by using this build and i want to find out why people are using it.



i'm interested in trying it because of the obvious reasons my stealth is about worthless unless i'm just hiding in the EFR.



enlighten me.
 
If you use stealth alot, Camouflage is a great talent. For example, when midfield is protected by enemy hunters and you want to get to the enemy base (to grab the flag or to kill the EFC).



I have used the stealth build as well as the high DPS build - it just depends on the role you want to play.
 
Stealth is only worthless when you're creeping along at snail speed. I Personally keep 2 Imp SS, because once I'm out of stealth I like to burn people (usually EFC) down as fast as possible. Dirty tricks is better for arena imo.
 
i guess i don't see the tactical advantage of being able to get past mid by myself.

even if i grab the flag i'm going to get shot down on the way back if i'm solo FC.
 
Eh, I like my current 19 rogue build...



Great for snooping around, Great for sapping, and crits :D



will be even better when i cap skinning :3
 
Hmmm, maybe you should just roll a warrior.
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actually, just the opposite. i was hoping someone would come in and say that 0/0/10 is the new subtlety build that i could use for some big time ambush crits. i'd rather be more stealthy and less like the combat rogue that i am now. but, there doesn't seem to be a good option for decent DPS outside of combat spec.



with the amount of HP people are running around with today it's next to impossible to burst them down with anything other than SS spam.
 
Imo, imp gogue and SS are too valuable to give up for increased stealth speed and increased sap range - as you can sap reliably anyways, the energy cost isnt really that big of a deal, etc. The only thing I like in the last 5 points in Sub is the reduced CD on stealth. Thats nice. :)



I would take Opportunity and a point or two in MoD over crit any day, and over extra hit or offhand damage so long as I was hit capped through gear.



I never liked Dual Wield spec, its not that much of a damage increase. With white damage being around 40% of total damage, then offhand damage being something like 25% of white damage, 5 points in DW spec is something like +5% damage, but doesnt increase burst anywhere near as drastically as 5% crit, and doesnt effect specials.
 
Xäo said:
Just look at all of the rogues that are considered among the best. They're all heavy sub.
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This statement is incorrect.



I think the only really useful talent in Sub is MoD. If you put any more than 3 points into sub, I think it sacrifices too many other useful talents.



I find that ISS is the most useful talent. And the most underrated one would be IG. I can't tell you how many times I've survived thanks to a 5.5s gouge + bandage.



EDIT: In case anyone cares, my spec is 2/5/3. 2/5 malice, 2/2 imp ss, 3/3 imp gouge, 3/3 master of deception.
 
sk8g0at said:
i guess i don't see the tactical advantage of being able to get past mid by myself.

even if i grab the flag i'm going to get shot down on the way back if i'm solo FC.
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It, of course, depends upon the competition, but . . .



A well geared/skilled rogue has a good chance of burning down an EFC, even if they have limited support. They have an even better chance if the EFC has the damage debuff.



Being able to sneak across midfield (through hunters) and into the enemy base and then sap the support makes the rogue a very solid class at returning the flag. Camouflage helps you get there alot faster.



As for grabbing the flag and trying to make it across midfield to home base - try running different routes (Ramp and GY) and timing your sprint. If you have the PvP trinket, Lifeblood (Rank 3), and the AGM - you should be able to make it home against any PUG or mediocre pre-made.



Bottom Line:

If your objective is to top the kill meters, then go for the DPS build. If you are trying to help your team win capture the flag, I suggest you consider a subtlety build with camouflage. I am not claiming it is the best, but it is certainly viable.
 
unfortunately i've only experienced horde pugs against alliance premades. that seems to be the norm. horde has no idea what's going on. so, my point is me getting to the EFC is pointless because the alliance stands on the out cropping of the roof of their building with a healer. none of the horde knows how to get up there and the other 8 hunters farm the GY...



even if i got out with the flag mid is so well covered by hunters that it's too hard to get across. no matter the route.



this is sort of a digression from my original post.
 
Fisherman said:
This statement is incorrect.
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Thats actually a very correct statement if we are talking R v R duels. The rogue thats full sub or near is going to get the opener more or less every time. Sap, Garrotte, Expose armor, back strafe to gain some energy, throat piercer to keep them in combat, slice and dice, come in for ss, ect. After that expose armor, he has basically put a dot on you and your sitting in cloth.



Now if we are talking WSG, yes, 0/0/10 isnt going to be the best option. I personally go full combat.
 
i'm thinking about doing 8/2/0 or 8/0/2 can anyone tell me if 8% chance to restore 25 evergy is better/worse than -5 energy cost on SS.



the 8 would be 5 Malice 3 IEv.



i'm only refering to WSG.
 
sk8g0at said:
i'm thinking about doing 8/2/0 or 8/0/2 can anyone tell me if 8% chance to restore 25 evergy is better/worse than -5 energy cost on SS.



the 8 would be 5 Malice 3 IEv.



i'm only refering to WSG.
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It wouldnt be bad if you were talking WSG, but I personally wouldnt go that direction. Its all a matter of works best for you, try it out. People nag me about my spec all the time, I love it for its multipurpose. Imp gouge is game changing in duels and in WSG.
 
Diiesel said:
Thats actually a very correct statement if we are talking R v R duels. The rogue thats full sub or near is going to get the opener more or less every time. Sap, Garrotte, Expose armor, back strafe to gain some energy, throat piercer to keep them in combat, slice and dice, come in for ss, ect. After that expose armor, he has basically put a dot on you and your sitting in cloth.



Now if we are talking WSG, yes, 0/0/10 isnt going to be the best option. I personally go full combat.
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If someone is judging who is the best rogue by how they do in RvR duels, then that person is either incredibly stupid or mentally retarded.



I guarantee you a 19 rogue specced into combat and assassination will do better against a huntard (and most other classes) than a rogue specced into sub. This goes for both dueling and bging.
 
Fisherman said:
If someone is judging who is the best rogue by how they do in RvR duels, then that person is either incredibly stupid or mentally retarded.



I guarantee you a 19 rogue specced into combat and assassination will do better against a huntard (and most other classes) than a rogue specced into sub. This goes for both dueling and bging.
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R v R duels shows a lot of tactics and skill, against a hunter with no los, its just blow cooldowns and nuke for the most part, if you got los thats a different story, but i dont see how ass/combat is going to make u better against a hunter, sub gets u the jump, improved gouge stops the running and lets u get breaks to regen energy.
 
I just got annoyed without better speed in stealth and more reliable sapping, and I personally love my 0/0/10 specc.
 
sk8g0at said:
unfortunately i've only experienced horde pugs against alliance premades
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I am not sure there is much you can do in a PUG vs. premade - unless the PUG is unusually good and/or the premade is unusually bad.
 
i never run full sub because i like 2 points in imp gouge to give teamates/myself time to get away/bandage/heal.. however id only run a sub build for arenas/1v1ing, for wsg i go 3/3 imp evis 2/2 imp ss 5/5 relentless strikes
 
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