Rogue secondaries

[Timur]

Hey team, I’m rolling a rogue alt for a break from healer gameplay. The information I’ve got from poring through the forum so far is that mastery is basically bad for all rogue specs, but there’s not a lot about which secondaries are good. Does anyone have a view or insight on the best stat priority for sin and outlaw rogues? And is sub useable at all? Most of the commentary here seems to think they’re just garbage.

 

[Visual]

Sub > any other spec

 

[Chops]

And is sub useable at all? Most of the commentary here seems to think they’re just garbage.

I've been enjoying sub. The damage is kinda meh but the double step is good fun and you build points pretty quick so you can get off a cheeky 5 point kidney a bit faster than other specs.

Now im not a particularly good rogue, so maybe I dont know what Im talking about, but sub certainly seems to do best what rogues seem built to do in this bracket.

 

[Timur]

I've been enjoying sub. The damage is kinda meh but the double step is good fun and you build points pretty quick so you can get off a cheeky 5 point kidney a bit faster than other specs.

Now im not a particularly good rogue, so maybe I dont know what Im talking about, but sub certainly seems to do best what rogues seem built to do in this bracket.

Oh, well that’s very good to know. Sub is more fun than the other two. I guess sub just wants to stack mastery so their evi actually does damage?

 

[Chops]

I guess sub just wants to stack mastery so their evi actually does damage?

Please listen to anyone else on this over me (IE visual) but i dont find myself using evis ever. Mastery feels like a wasted stat to me because im either using kidney, slice/dice or just dropping a bleed. I run a high crit/vers set.

But I need to stress that I *DO NOT* know what im doing. Its just fun.

 

[Ammonite]

For what it's worth, my rogue is assassination and I run haste/crit. I never dump combo points into eviscerate. It feels pretty good to play

 

[Timur]

For what it's worth, my rogue is assassination and I run haste/crit. I never dump combo points into eviscerate. It feels pretty good to play

Please listen to anyone else on this over me (IE visual) but i dont find myself using evis ever. Mastery feels like a wasted stat to me because im either using kidney, slice/dice or just dropping a bleed. I run a high crit/vers set.

But I need to stress that I *DO NOT* know what im doing. Its just fun.

Thanks guys! Sounds like my intuition wasn’t too far off the mark: mastery is trash, rogues aren’t for stomping around doing big damage, vers is pointless cos if your target isn’t stunned you’re basically dead.

 

[Visual]

Sub rogue = agi>crit>vers>mastery. Sub has a nasty opener and great mobility that you can pair with kick/kidney etc. I do run some mastery on my rogue and I have hit some big evis crits before. My best advice would be to play what you feel comfortable with and enjoy playing the most!!

 

[LZ]

Assasination wants agi>haste,

Haven't tested crit against vers, a lot of people run vers, either to balance it out because you get so much crit from the TBC socket gear, or because they think it's better. I think both are at least fine and probably pretty close.

Crit in general has a shit reputation from being worthless in BFA, but it's a lot better in SL. and u can't put a price on an ambush crit

Mastery is a dead stat. haste is good on bleeds, good on regen, more procs, poison, just a really good stat.

Sometimes w/ assasination you can feel a little strung out waiting for energy, but you also get ambush procs. With thistle tea you also have some brutal burst windows. Fun spec for just murdering people. And spending a lot of time auto-attacking.

 

[Timur]

Thanks team, this is awesome. Anyone got insights on outlaw? Worth playing? Stat priority? Haste seems just all around good as a rogue.

On outlaw, does that life stealing sword Revenger from the Botanica still work? Dual wielding lifesteal swords sounds kinda nice.

 

[Goesid]

Thanks team, this is awesome. Anyone got insights on outlaw? Worth playing? Stat priority? Haste seems just all around good as a rogue.

On outlaw, does that life stealing sword Revenger from the Botanica still work? Dual wielding lifesteal swords sounds kinda nice.

it still works but was ever really only good on hybrids like prot pala and bm/ww monk.

 

[shanker]

1st any rogue can be good and is somewhat carried by a premade, or the right pug draw with arc mages, destros and hunters

when i play my 20s which i pug. the rogues that are not in the above situation, are twinked that cause issues in spec order: sub, assa, and combat.

sub spec seem to near equally build mast, crit, versa in the 25-30% the order is not set, but based on gear selected. extreme low haste. assa and combat spec i see high haste, in fights i see they are energy starved

as for poster on lifesteal, you may want to get situational swap out wpns with crusader, i have seen monks and rogues doing this, with all the squishes and patches that have messed up enchant mechanics, crusader actually procs on fast weapons, no longer has a 2ppm rate that it had in the first 10 years of WOW, and the heal was never squished and is larger than the original and boosted by versa. life steal was a van wow and TBC era rogue viable enchant. used to be 6ppm with 30 shadow dmg (30 fire at start of WOW, changed) and 30 health stolen, thru the squishes it lost around 83% of its original value, i think on a 20 it is 5/5 now, i can't imagine it scaling up enough to make a difference in a 20-29 bg

 

[Goesid]

1st any rogue can be good and is somewhat carried by a premade, or the right pug draw with arc mages, destros and hunters

when i play my 20s which i pug. the rogues that are not in the above situation, are twinked that cause issues in spec order: sub, assa, and combat.

sub spec seem to near equally build mast, crit, versa in the 25-30% the order is not set, but based on gear selected. extreme low haste. assa and combat spec i see high haste, in fights i see they are energy starved

as for poster on lifesteal, you may want to get situational swap out wpns with crusader, i have seen monks and rogues doing this, with all the squishes and patches that have messed up enchant mechanics, crusader actually procs on fast weapons, no longer has a 2ppm rate that it had in the first 10 years of WOW, and the heal was never squished and is larger than the original and boosted by versa. life steal was a van wow and TBC era rogue viable enchant. used to be 6ppm with 30 shadow dmg (30 fire at start of WOW, changed) and 30 health stolen, thru the squishes it lost around 83% of its original value, i think on a 20 it is 5/5 now, i can't imagine it scaling up enough to make a difference in a 20-29 bg

The heal was squished. Crusader gave 100 str and like a ~75 heal at all levels from 5.3 or whenever scaling came to 9.1.5 when it was changed to 46 str and a ~3000 heal at all levels to make it less strong during the revived mage tower challenge. It was then busted for like a month or two when it was changed to a ~300 heal at 20.

 

[shanker]

yeah the heal was squished on crusader after it was discovered it was scaling to 3000 in the mage tower, they adjusted it for the mage tower only, but now it was broken to 3000 outside the mage tower for high level players below 50 and had to be squished again to what it is now which is a buff over original crusader

on my 20 out of a BG, crusader shows 34 str and 132 heal (have seen 276 heal on dummies from crit /versa). van wow crusader heal was i n 75-100 range and was fixed to those values not affected by other stats. based on how van wow enchants were nerfed 80-90%, crusader has never been correctly squished for 8 years, blizz still has it wrong

 

[Behindew]

outlaw pumps most damage but lacks energy re-gen and relies heavily on pistol shot proc. sub is for cool plays and "sometimes" big bursts on under geared lowbies. assassin for most damage uptime and consistency.

 

[Fang]

It's worth mentioning that the vulpera have a pretty strong racial when you want to kill someone as a rogue.

 

[Goesid]

yeah the heal was squished on crusader after it was discovered it was scaling to 3000 in the mage tower, they adjusted it for the mage tower only, but now it was broken to 3000 outside the mage tower for high level players below 50 and had to be squished again to what it is now which is a buff over original crusader

on my 20 out of a BG, crusader shows 34 str and 132 heal (have seen 276 heal on dummies from crit /versa). van wow crusader heal was i n 75-100 range and was fixed to those values not affected by other stats. based on how van wow enchants were nerfed 80-90%, crusader has never been correctly squished for 8 years, blizz still has it wrong

Its like you cant read.

 

[toskosa]

I wish rogues had access to their energy regen abilities pre 20, would make lvling a rogue way smoother then it currently is. Really hoping the talent trees in DF give us access to them. Like when you get subs energy regen ability at 27 the class pops off and is insanely fun to play.