Rogue Help

[Relolas]

I am thinking of making a (unique?) premade speced rogue:

Full Sub Spec



I was leveling a rogue through the 19 bracket with this spec and even with no twink enchants or anything I did amazing in BGs.



What this spec does is effectively lock out someone from fighting/healing for a good 15 secs (around that, I don't remember the diminishing returns). I could then chain sap the next person who wasn't in combat.

At the beginning of a WSG I would run out of the tunnel, stealth and head straight for the horde group where I would start chain sapping them. They would either ignore the sapped people and keep running or they would all get really paranoid and their whole team would stop in their tracks to run in circles looking for me.

To be fair I did have +stealth on my cloak and minor speed to boots but I had crap damage and health.



So I liked it a lot and I wanted to make a formal rogue twink with the same spec. Anyone ever see any good rogue twinks with a similar spec? I figure I can stack AP and since I will be in stealth most of the time my health will matter very little.



What I need help with is the gear, I'm making this twink for a horde guild on a server where I have no main so I wont include rare/expensive gear like a shadowfang or assassins blade.



Head: Violet Hat +8 agi



Neck: Scout's Medallion



Shoulders: Serpent's Shoulders



Back: Glowing Lizardscale Cloak or Sentry Cloak +stealth



Chest: Blackened Defias Armor +100 hp (+4 stats is a little expensive)



Wrist: Forest Leather Bracers +9 stam (Monkey bracers if I can ever find them)



Hands: Gloves of the Fang +15 agi



Waist: I need some help here.

Blackened Defias Belt for full AP set?

or

Deviate Scale Belt for more stats?

or

Belt of the Fang with fang boots (or fang pants when 3.1 hits) for expertise?



Legs: Scouting Trousers of the Monkey +Nethercobra or Nethercleft?

Leggings of the Fang for 3.1



Feet: Footpads of the Fang +minor speed

Feet of the Lynx +minor speed (if I already have 3 fang pieces after 3.1)



Fingers: Seal of Sylvanas

Legionnaire's Band



Trinkets: Insignia of the Horde

Arena Grand Master (eventually... )



Mainhand: Cruel Barb +15 agi



Offhand: Thief's Blade +15 agi



Ranged: Throat Piercers



Any advice? I am thinking about making a BE for overall usefulness in premades cause of the the extra AoE silence.



My main strategy in WSGs will be locking people out of combat with saps and bursting people down before they have enough time to turn their focus on me. In 1v1 fights I will try to run just out of range when I get low on health. Then as soon as I am out of combat I will stealth, turn around and sap them for a quick bandage.

 

[Phantom]

Your main use as a rogue will be for DPS and interrupt, especially in premades. Sap will also be essentially useless once you begin the fight with the FC, and being completely honest sapping is a waste of time on offense.



Only a truly terrible (not meant as an insult) team would stop if someone got sapped, or even if they were being killed (except of course the FC).



My advice? Don't waste time sapping, do what rogues were supposed to do: hit very hard very fast.



EDIT: I know there is a quest belt (Screecher) that gives some AP and stats, you may want to look into that.

 

[Deaconator]

Screecher belt is a hunter belt. DSB gets buffed with 3.1 dropping the spirit and picking up hit I believe. 4stats>100hp. Forget sap, does nothing for O.

 

[Unstablle]

for a premade rogue youll want to max out ap, and use dual fiery. so for a premade set id use

Violet Hat/Green Tinted Goggles/Lucky FIshing Hat - 8 agi

Wsg neck

Serpents Shoulders/BoA

Subterranean Cloak +3 agi

Scouting Tunic of Power +4 Stats

Wranglers Wristbands of Power +9 Strength

Gloves of the Fang +15 Agi

Blackened Defias Belt

Scouting Trousers of Power - Nethercleft

Feet of the Lynx - Minor Speed or Fishing Boots with Cat's Swiftness or Surefooted

Meadow Ring of the Tiger

Wsg Ring

Pvp Trink

AGM

Cruel Barb/Shadowfang - Fiery

Thief's Blade - Fiery



For a spec my preference is to spec 5/5 Malice, 3/3 Imp Gouge and 2/2 Imp Sinister Strike

 

[Jzeihen]

Honestly, I play a rogue myself, and I wouldn't recommend Defias Top.

Instead, I would go for Tunic of Westfall for DPS because pretty much all you need is agility, if you get the fishing hat you can make up for the lost stamina from the top.

 

[Disinter]

that spec kinda sux when you are using swords and even with daggers it would suck 2 if i would be you i would put 5/5 Malice 2/2 Imp Sinister Strike 3/3 Imp Evi when using swords and if you are going to use dagger spec you should put 5/5 Malice 3/3 Puncturing Wounds 2/2 Opportunity

 

[Druiddroid]

Honestly, I play a rogue myself, and I wouldn't recommend Defias Top.

Instead, I would go for Tunic of Westfall for DPS because pretty much all you need is agility, if you get the fishing hat you can make up for the lost stamina from the top.

tunic of westfall is for alliance only.



the best chest for horde is the blackened defias chest, or if you want AP you can get a scouting tunic of power. blackened defias chest is certainly the best all around chest for horde.



also, on the offhand it might be better to get +15 agility rather than a second fiery. i'm not sure about that though.

 

[Juke]

rogue

19

with no twink enchants or anything I did amazing in BGs

Not trying to take anything from ya.. but it's not hard to do well playing a Rogue.

Even against good players, you've still got a lot going in your favor



As far as spec full Sub doesn't really come into its own until later levels, you just lose too much when you only have 10 points to use. MoD is meh, Opportunity really loves the synchronicity of Malice+Puncturing Wounds, and Dirty Tricks is meh at this level (lolSap)

Camouflage is amazing, but imo not worth the other awesome talents you lose by spec'ing 8+ in Sub (provided you only have 2more pts to deal with). Besides, at 19 Rogues are more powerful in Stealth than out.. so shaving some time off the cooldown isn't a high priority



Like Disinter said, with swords you'll want something like 8/2/0 (Malice/ImpEvis/ImpSS)

daggers, 8/0/2 (Malice/Puncturing Wounds/Opportunity)

if you want to maximize your effectiveness.



If you're just looking to bang around and have fun, spec what you like.

^_^

 

[Ninjafied]

Not trying to take anything from ya.. but it's not hard to do well playing a Rogue.

Even against good players, you've still got a lot going in your favor



As far as spec full Sub doesn't really come into its own until later levels, you just lose too much when you only have 10 points to use. MoD is meh, Opportunity really loves the synchronicity of Malice+Puncturing Wounds, and Dirty Tricks is meh at this level (lolSap)

Camouflage is amazing, but imo not worth the other awesome talents you lose by spec'ing 8+ in Sub (provided you only have 2more pts to deal with). Besides, at 19 Rogues are more powerful in Stealth than out.. so shaving some time off the cooldown isn't a high priority



Like Disinter said, with swords you'll want something like 8/2/0 (Malice/ImpEvis/ImpSS)

daggers, 8/0/2 (Malice/Puncturing Wounds/Opportunity)

if you want to maximize your effectiveness.



If you're just looking to bang around and have fun, spec what you like.

^_^

my rogue is full sub but i only use him for 1v1s...other then that i see no reason for the spec really...i personally would spec imp gouge imp SS and rest into crit...imp gouge helps for keeping the healer from healing for a good amount of time especially if your full AP...unless its a fully geard FC you should be able to drop the target pretty quickly

 

[Ramune]

why do people actually put enchants on the violet hat? if you want a cheap headpiece without farming for the fishing hat just get engi and use green tinteds...

 

[Ninjafied]

why do people actually put enchants on the violet hat? if you want a cheap headpiece without farming for the fishing hat just get engi and use green tinteds...

some people like to "crutch" themselves on the proff. buffs



herb/skinning takes up room for engineering

 

[Unstablle]

for max dps use the set i listed. the imp gouge is nice in premades, the extra 1.5 secs of CC can really make all the difference between an fc living and dying. But you definitely cant go wrong with imp evis in place of it

 

[Relolas]

some people like to "crutch" themselves on the proff. buffs



herb/skinning takes up room for engineering

Hehe Ninjafied, this rogue is actually for your horde guild on Turalyon. This is Gemu BTW. She is only level 6 so far so I have no problems with going a different direction with this twink, should I take these people's advice and turn this into max AP +fiery rogue?



EDIT

So no one actually thinks a full sub rogue is a good idea? Responding to another comment about a good premade not stopping unless I sapped their FC, I guess I would aim for their FC then. I have only been in 2 premades but (please correct me if I'm wrong) both times the winning team had a setup with a midfield group to control mid and a small FC group who would help mid until it was safe to go in and grab the flag. Having a defense group just reduces the number of people you have on mid making it a ton easier for the other team to control the game.



Would there really be no spot on a team for a sub rogue? I would have 5% less crit and be less able to spam sin strike but I don't think you guys really know what sap can do at 19. The other team wont run into a fight when their healer is sapped and a good sap on a FC after he's blown his trinket gives a lot of time for an entire team to catch up to him.

With my talent spec and the +stealth to cloak I would be able to get within 1 yard in front of people (2 yards for humans) before they saw me, and sap from 10 yards away.

A sapped healer either blows a trinket or lets a party member die.

I wont do as much damage (not that much less if you think about it) but unless someone can tell me why sap is not a viable strategy at 19 I think my CC abilities will outweigh the damage I lose.

 

[Phantom]

In a premade, you will essentially have two groups: offense and defense.



Defense will run from the FR directly to the enemy FR, grab the flag, and return to their base as fast as possible.



Offense will wander in mid until the defense has gotten safely back (doing anything from attacking the enemy to defending the FC), at which point they will break off and begin the assault on the EFC.



A team WITHOUT a defense is a team that dies in 15 minutes, unless the other team is seriously terrible.



Don't go Sub, and don't waste your time on sap. I would never leave a spot for a sub rogue when I could take a decked AP rogue.



The DPS difference WILL be large; less energy for SS means more of that, and 5% crit is, lets face it, a decent amount.



My ten cents..

 

[Relolas]

well ill get the gear for AP but i want to test out a sub spec, if i don't like it ill just respec for 1g.



Have you had any bad experiences with sub rogues before? I have actually never seen one, maybe cause they are bad, but I think people make rogues with damage in mind so they never give sub a chance. You are probably right but I doubt you have ever speced your rogue sub so I don't see how you know for sure that AP rogues are better for premades.

 

[Goma]

sub is probably the best spec for arenas and does fine in wsg but isnt the best spec for premades

 

[Rayekk]

Well, as a rogue, in the 19's things move too fast to be sub IMHO. From my perspective (I'm almost exclusively a FC rogue) the only time I see a value in a sub rogue is when the opposing side is in turtle with one or more healers on the FC. In that (somewhat rare) occasion, a sub rogue (or two) can set up for a coordinated attack with the sap/garrote combo, sap one healer and garrote the FC/2nd healer/caster; or simply chain-sap a healer.



I say if you want to try it, there’s no harm. After all, if no one ever experimented with things, twinking itself would have never been born.

 

[shanker]

horde rogues overall are at a disadvantage against HU and NE rogues in the stealth department. i have played both sides before and after wotlk changes.



we had horde rogues whining this past weekend when i did a marathon 19-WSG fest. when they were trying to sneek in to get our flag back they were spotted 5 times. alliance had a HU palidan FC, NE res-druid in SM, and human rogue on D. we sent 3 rogues over, that one HU rogue spotted and sapped them one right after the other. they were pissing and moaning, saying WTF, etc.



since it was a stalemate game, i told them unless you have points or enchants to increase your stealth, you will have a tough time sneeking up on any HU class, or NE rogues. add NE druids when they get cat form.



HU racial "perception" +1 stealth detect

NE racial "elusiveness" harder to detect when stealthed (supposedly +1 stealth) and racial "shadowmeld" puts them in deeper stealth



in 19 bracket, a horde rogue without 3 points in MoD or a cloak without stealth enchant glows like candy for my 19 HU rogue or palidan and for my 19 NE rogue. having rolled alliance to see what i'm up against has taught me alot for when i play my horde 19 and 29 rogue.



my 19 UD rogue has a GLC w/stealth and one with +3 agi. the cloak with stealth is priceless at times, also at times i respec to 3 points in Mod, but most of the time i keep at least 1 point in MoD.



my 29 rogue has catseye goggles, a cloak w/stealth enchant, and no matter what spec i play with i keep 3 points in MoD. being able to get the sap and/or opener makes a real difference. this rogue also has a 9/9 monkey helm and a cloak w/+12agi to use also.



if you can find a opposing player on the same server, arrange a meeting in booty bay. go to stealth and creep towards each other, have 1st person to see the other say stop (if your on vent). i did this with a freind, logged my alliance account....he was furious when he saw what my HU and NE rogue had on him. but know he knows what to do and hope the HU and NE aren't sub-spec'd

 

[shanker]

sub is probably the best spec for arenas and does fine in wsg but isnt the best spec for premades

i have respec'd to full sub on premades. in 29 bracket when the flag goes to the roof, my rogue is way ahead of the FC and other defenders. even if in GY, i see the rogues before they can combo anything



having rogues come in not sub spec'd, i see them, i sap the first, our D opens on him, i sap the 2nd, and open on the 3rd one if that is the case.



also at times don't sap and open with a garrote so they can't vanish, if the other team isn't rolling alot of rogues.

 

[Ramune]

some people like to "crutch" themselves on the proff. buffs



herb/skinning takes up room for engineering

ahh, completely forgot about prof buffs. funny thing is that the +8 stam from the goggles will be a better choice once profs are capped at 225 again.



of course you could just get the fishing hat and it wouldnt matter