US RIP

I really expected your post in this thread to just be "Failing to prepare is preparing to fail... /cheers"

Nah, he logs on once a month, so he turned into the "lazy" person that I described, relying/leeching on other people's discoveries, and probably favors the fixes if it means he can't/won't have the option to put in the work to do whatever the discovery has brought into light.
 
If those same noobs think they are going to PvP like that in the next expansion, they have another thing coming, they will get one shot, they will be forced to gear up, and they will be forced to learn how to play better, which helps out everyone else in the long run.

I want to address this myth specifically, because I've heard it over and over again in the years I played, and this never works the way people think it works. No offense to you, Domunique -- I appreciate you expressing what a lot of twinks think.

Yes, WoW is a gear-based game, and investing time and effort into gearing is part of the game. Moreover, gear works as a badge of honor among players, even if it only gains a 1% advantage on the battlefield. When we see another twink's hard-earned gear, we can't help but respect their dedication. But gear disparity rarely encourages people to "get better", for two reasons.

First, everyone likes better gear, but few players enjoy getting better gear. The hundreds of instance runs, the AH scanning, the massive mob grind, all to get BiS. That's why the twink community remains a small subset (by proportion) of WoW as a whole. Bracket-based gear perfectionists remain few and far between.

Second, we enjoy PvP as a place to show off and use our gear. But that doesn't mean we enjoy getting better at PvP. They're not tied to each other. We know it, because (as people pointed out in this thread), there are well-geared twinks who can't PvP worth a crumb. And there are lazy-ass geared twinks who could best 90% of the people who post on this site.

That's why I cringe when someone says, "hey, make gear great again! That'll make these crappy PvPers either get good or get out." It never happens. It never has happened, and it never will happen, because a passion for gearing has nothing to do with a passion for PvP.

While I'm as excited as the next player that stats will mean something again in PvP, I have no illusions about what we're gonna see on the battlefield. Getting crushed by a twink will push players out of iPvP and extend queue times. I'm okay with that, and if Blizzard decides to segregate XP-on and XP-off again (which I doubt), then maybe it will do players some good to learn the organizational skills necessary to get games and be part of a tight-knit community. Consider that if people who haven't played in years, contacted people like me who also hasn't played in years, there must be something valuable about the dedication and respect within the twink communities of old...but that had more to do with the shared pain and respect of gearing and the camaraderie built on the battlefield, not necessarily any particular level of PvP skill.

Make no mistake -- stronger twinks will thin out the iPvP queues. Players will not be "forced" to learn how to play better, and it will not help everyone else in the long run. But it will help fellow dedicated twinks meet each other and challenge each other to grow. And in the process, maybe we'll find a few new players with the curiosity and the grit to join (or re-join) the XP-off community.
 
So instead of PvP being gear driven, it became class driven instead. And people just rolled whatever the best class was. (People will always find a way to get ahead).

LMAO so far from the truth I'm actually flabbergasted. Have you played any other expansion? There used to be 5 hunters a game on the reg for multiple expansions in a row. Basicly all twinks(also a lesser amount of hardcore twinks I would argue) have multiple alts now due to gear being so easy to get and thus opens up the possibility of people playing a wider variety of classes, some they would never have tried before when you had to put effort in gearing a shitty class.

People will fotm no matter what and I would argue that the issue was far greater when gear still mattered, and even then the better classes required less gear and could still stay not only competitive but OP further promoting people to play them.

Games are full of Levlers so the competitive spirit is down the drain and very few dedicated top pvp players even bother queuing pugs and many of them just quit or moved on to something else.

Even in plebmades some people stay away because the competitive aspect is so far away from previous expansions, loads of new people and just picking up randoms in order to get enough manpower to have a 10v10. This is not a slight against newer twinks, just that the experience they need to improve rapidly is not provided in regular pugs and perhaps not even plebmades(altho it will def help with some meta understanding) Investing time in other wow competitive areas at max lvl would probably improve them at a faster rate.

I like that stats on gear matters yet again but to portray ilvl template in itself as the main culprit of legion being "bad" is far to easy. If the gameplay was great people would still play it. The main issue is still levlers mixed with twinks combined with lack of spells/abilities on certain classes and just a general dullness. I do think the ilvl template plays a part in this and that some enchants etc had a big impact on the 19s community and probably for a more dynamic and thus better game.

Im talking all pvp, I understand for a lot of you guys actually enjoy gearing and farming some achievement where you need to pick 1505332 flowers in 45 different zones might or jerking off to the idea of a new transmog piece is exciting so for you guys am really happy that ilvl template is gone. shoutout to the "TWINKS ARE ALL ABOUT ONESHOTTING LEVLERS AND GRINDING REP FOR SOME COSMETIC"

From my limited prepatch ptr testing, the gameplay "feels" more alive at 19 and thats a good thing. Question is will it be good enough for majority of people to actually invest time and some competitive pride or is just another "why am I queuin, games will just be a walkover"

Any case I will give 19s a good try and further look into other brackets in search for "fun" in BFA.
 

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