Returning Twinks 29s Q&A

[Iøve]

1. Can 29s queue PvP content with XP off and play with people that have XP on (levelers)

1a. If yes to question 1., is the only reason 20 F2P/vet twinks aren't just leveling to 29 and thinking there because they would have to sub to the game?
1b. If no to question 1., how do you play PvP content without gaining experience?​

2. What is different between 20 F2P/Vets and 29 twinks?
3. Why do people keep saying 29s killed 20s?
4. If I have a brand new level 29 and I want to twink, where do I start?
5. In DF pre-patch, what should I be prioritizing before the DF xpac releases in terms of BiS twink for DF release?
6. Do 29s see a good chance of surviving DF, or is all twinking dying out simultaneously?
7. Which Professions are absolutely vital to your success as a 29 twink? (Last I played my 20 it was Engi/Alch)

If I have more questions I'll post them. Let's see if anybody has any answers. Cheers.

 

[Depression]

1. 1b - If you have XP Off you play against others with XP off. 20-29's get XP Off BG queues during the day with anywhere between 5-20min queue times. That slows down a good bit way later in the night/early morning when queue times can be anywhere from 20min-2hour+

2. If this question is just asking the difference between the 3 aforementioned groups in PvP, then the difference would be overall stats/abilities/talents. 29's are stronger because of this.

3. People say this for various reasons. All of which are opinions and nothing concrete since from what I've been reading the 20's are still VERY active in their own right doing PvE content and some slight PvP here and there.

4. Start by turning XP Off and where to start will be answered in part 5.

5. As far as what has been seen on Beta for level 29's, any ilvl 35 epic dungeon drop or dungeon quest gear scales up to ilvl 112 in beta. ilvl 34 dungeon blues and dungeon quest blues scale to ilvl 86 in beta. Any ilvl 37 green world drop scales to ilvl 81 in beta. There is a possibility that if the ilvl 112 epics stick and don't change that a good bit of them could possibly be Grandfathered. Getting them now is better just incase. Also enchanting certain items currently could be useful if the enchants don't change their ilvl requirements. Last thing is know that WoD dungeon drops can proc Warforged and change to ilvl 35 epics. Also they can proc sockets/tertiary stats. Some of those are definitely worth going for. We have yet to see an ilvl change in PvP/Raid/Crafted/Artifact gear on Beta so that is still TBD.

6. No one really knows the answer to this. Best bet is to gear your toon out for Dragonflight just incase the bracket makes it through. We understand that Wotlk classic is eating a lot of the would be twinks as well as the fact that the new xpac coming soon will eat a bit of the population with max level content. Gearing your toon now and parking it is always a good idea just incase later on things spark up again.

7. Engineering is always great. Inscription for shoulder enchants is great. You can grab MoP Leatherworking for leg enchants and then swap that profession with another profession and keep use of the said leg enchants. Alchemy can be helpful if you don't want to stock up on flask from the AH, also the alchemist stone can be pretty nice. Outside of those I can't think of many other viable professions for any specific reason. If I am wrong I'm sure someone will let you know in later comments!

 

[ZenwØw]

Panda <3 <3

 

[Chops]

1. Can 29s queue PvP content with XP off and play with people that have XP on (levelers)

1a. If yes to question 1., is the only reason 20 F2P/vet twinks aren't just leveling to 29 and thinking there because they would have to sub to the game?
1b. If no to question 1., how do you play PvP content without gaining experience?​

1. No. 29s are xp-off and only get games because F2P/Vet 20s were placed in XPOff ques about 2 months ago.
1a. People play at 20 for a lot of reasons, namely the challenge of level 20 restrictions. It *was* the only way to get regular BG ques until about 2 months ago when they got put into xp-off ques.
1b. You make a 29, turn xp off and hope enough F2Ps keep queing that the bracket retains tolerably fast ques

2. What is different between 20 F2P/Vets and 29 twinks?

20s are sexier and happier than 29s. 29s are more powerful in pvp. 29s also only exist as long as there are 20s to feed their ques. 20s will exist until... well, whenever Blizz changes starter accounts

3. Why do people keep saying 29s killed 20s?

They didnt. 20s are still around. But this sentiment exists because 29s are, historically, a bracket of opportunist gladflys who only pop up when the brackets and pvp ques line up in such a way that they can farm 20s. 20s had a resurgence in late BFA/SL due to being the only way to get fast, easy, casual, BG ques around the clock. When that changed, a lot of people who were playing at 20 went to 29. Over the long haul, 20s are a very small, very niche subculture of twinking thats existed for a long time and only had the briefest of moments in the spotlight. We're back to normal now.

4. If I have a brand new level 29 and I want to twink, where do I start?

Level to 29, turn off xp, then start farming WOD dungeons like mad and hope your gear procs epic and with a socket slot and a tertiary stat. Maybe also Trial of the Crusader? I'm not real sure where your gear comes from actually because nobody at 29 cares enough about their twinks or their bracket to actually write guides for this stuff. Theyre too busy trolling 20s.

5. In DF pre-patch, what should I be prioritizing before the DF xpac releases in terms of BiS twink for DF release?

The best guess right now is WoD dungeon epic/socket/tert procs but that could change very very rapidly. Welcome to the new twinking, where your BIS changes just as regularly as end game.

6. Do 29s see a good chance of surviving DF, or is all twinking dying out simultaneously?

29s will never DIE die as long as there are F2P to proc their ques. But its never gonna grow into a real bracket with actual guilds or premades or arena tourneys or anything like that. It's just gonna be a bracket of 5 man 29 premades que-dodging each other while they GY farm 20s

7. Which Professions are absolutely vital to your success as a 29 twink? (Last I played my 20 it was Engi/Alch)

Engi/Alch/Incrip are the big ones. you'd be safe sticking with engi/alch though these days switching around between them is really easy if that changes.

 

[Depression]

I'm not real sure where your gear comes from actually because nobody at 29 cares enough about their twinks or their bracket to actually write guides for this stuff. Theyre too busy trolling 20s.

Sheesh I came in here trying to be as neutral and positive as possible to help out a new to be 20/29 twink, to then see this afterwords... No reason for the toxicity.

 

[Chops]

Sheesh I came in here trying to be as neutral and positive as possible to help out a new to be 20/29 twink, to then see this afterwords... No reason for the toxicity.

prove me wrong then. Its been over a week since someone submitted a build to the armory thread and the closest anyones gotten to a gearing guide is some screenshots from beta. Most of the work there done by people who dont actually play 29s (like Warglave) or who are actively trolling (like Glance)

Be the change, man.

 

[Depression]

prove me wrong then. Its been over a week since someone submitted a build to the armory thread and the closest anyones gotten to a gearing guide is some screenshots from beta. Most of the work there done by people who dont actually play 29s (like Warglave) or who are actively trolling (like Glance)

Be the change, man.

Thought I was already being the change by coming into the forums and being helpful to someone who asked questions. Showed full neutrality and no hostility toward any single "group" of people. If anything the change needs to be made in your attitude. I'll leave you to it man. Can't be bothered talking with people who want nothing than to see the world burn when things don't go their way. Cheers man. Hope you find peace!

 

[Chops]

Can't be bothered talking with people who want nothing than to see the world burn when things don't go their way. Cheers man. Hope you find peace!

I'm unsure what you mean by things not going my way? I have no love for 29s but I'm perfectly content with the state of the game and my own twinking experience. Its not personal, merely a reporting of the state of 29s with an added twinge of distaste. But again, accurate.

 

[Iøve]

1. No. 29s are xp-off and only get games because F2P/Vet 20s were placed in XPOff ques about 2 months ago.
1a. People play at 20 for a lot of reasons, namely the challenge of level 20 restrictions. It *was* the only way to get regular BG ques until about 2 months ago when they got put into xp-off ques.
1b. You make a 29, turn xp off and hope enough F2Ps keep queing that the bracket retains tolerably fast ques

20s are sexier and happier than 29s. 29s are more powerful in pvp. 29s also only exist as long as there are 20s to feed their ques. 20s will exist until... well, whenever Blizz changes starter accounts

They didnt. 20s are still around. But this sentiment exists because 29s are, historically, a bracket of opportunist gladflys who only pop up when the brackets and pvp ques line up in such a way that they can farm 20s. 20s had a resurgence in late BFA/SL due to being the only way to get fast, easy, casual, BG ques around the clock. When that changed, a lot of people who were playing at 20 went to 29. Over the long haul, 20s are a very small, very niche subculture of twinking thats existed for a long time and only had the briefest of moments in the spotlight. We're back to normal now.
Level to 29, turn off xp, then start farming WOD dungeons like mad and hope your gear procs epic and with a socket slot and a tertiary stat. Maybe also Trial of the Crusader? I'm not real sure where your gear comes from actually because nobody at 29 cares enough about their twinks or their bracket to actually write guides for this stuff. Theyre too busy trolling 20s.
The best guess right now is WoD dungeon epic/socket/tert procs but that could change very very rapidly. Welcome to the new twinking, where your BIS changes just as regularly as end game.
29s will never DIE die as long as there are F2P to proc their ques. But its never gonna grow into a real bracket with actual guilds or premades or arena tourneys or anything like that. It's just gonna be a bracket of 5 man 29 premades que-dodging each other while they GY farm 20s
Engi/Alch/Incrip are the big ones. you'd be safe sticking with engi/alch though these days switching around between them is really easy if that changes.

Thanks so much for the info!
Would you say that 20s are still alive?
If I were to queue with a 20 would I find a queue?
And will BiS change with DF release or could I get BiS during prepatch and keep playing in DF?
Are true F2P just as viable as Vets, or is it impossible to be as good as a vet as a true F2P? (Considering making a f2p account JUST for 20 twinks that are true F2P.
[doublepost=1666981933,1666981499][/doublepost]

1. 1b - If you have XP Off you play against others with XP off. 20-29's get XP Off BG queues during the day with anywhere between 5-20min queue times. That slows down a good bit way later in the night/early morning when queue times can be anywhere from 20min-2hour+

2. If this question is just asking the difference between the 3 aforementioned groups in PvP, then the difference would be overall stats/abilities/talents. 29's are stronger because of this.

3. People say this for various reasons. All of which are opinions and nothing concrete since from what I've been reading the 20's are still VERY active in their own right doing PvE content and some slight PvP here and there.

4. Start by turning XP Off and where to start will be answered in part 5.

5. As far as what has been seen on Beta for level 29's, any ilvl 35 epic dungeon drop or dungeon quest gear scales up to ilvl 112 in beta. ilvl 34 dungeon blues and dungeon quest blues scale to ilvl 86 in beta. Any ilvl 37 green world drop scales to ilvl 81 in beta. There is a possibility that if the ilvl 112 epics stick and don't change that a good bit of them could possibly be Grandfathered. Getting them now is better just incase. Also enchanting certain items currently could be useful if the enchants don't change their ilvl requirements. Last thing is know that WoD dungeon drops can proc Warforged and change to ilvl 35 epics. Also they can proc sockets/tertiary stats. Some of those are definitely worth going for. We have yet to see an ilvl change in PvP/Raid/Crafted/Artifact gear on Beta so that is still TBD.

6. No one really knows the answer to this. Best bet is to gear your toon out for Dragonflight just incase the bracket makes it through. We understand that Wotlk classic is eating a lot of the would be twinks as well as the fact that the new xpac coming soon will eat a bit of the population with max level content. Gearing your toon now and parking it is always a good idea just incase later on things spark up again.

7. Engineering is always great. Inscription for shoulder enchants is great. You can grab MoP Leatherworking for leg enchants and then swap that profession with another profession and keep use of the said leg enchants. Alchemy can be helpful if you don't want to stock up on flask from the AH, also the alchemist stone can be pretty nice. Outside of those I can't think of many other viable professions for any specific reason. If I am wrong I'm sure someone will let you know in later comments!

Thanks for all the info! This was super helpful. What PvE content is there for 20s? When I played it was BGs, WGs, or bust pretty much.

 

[Chops]

Would you say that 20s are still alive?

Sure. Plenty of 20s out there. The community is kinda scattered and decentralized but 20s certainly exist

If I were to queue with a 20 would I find a queue?

yes, but you're queing into xpoff, IE also with 29 twinks. Be prepared to be the farmed rather than to be doing the farming

And will BiS change with DF release or could I get BiS during prepatch and keep playing in DF?

Noone knows. BIS is likely to change, and rapidly, several times during prepatch/early DF. Good luck out there.

Are true F2P just as viable as Vets, or is it impossible to be as good as a vet as a true F2P? (Considering making a f2p account JUST for 20 twinks that are true F2P.

F2P is just fine. Conzils shaman and my warrior are good examples of F2P toons that out geared most vets. Thats unlikely to change. But youre not gonna match even the laziest 29.

 

[Kaxle]

Thanks for all the info! This was super helpful. What PvE content is there for 20s? When I played it was BGs, WGs, or bust pretty much.

Depends, if you are looking for challenging PvE content like M+ or Raids then not really what there was before got mostly removed with the SL scaling changes. BUT if you like completionist content then that same scaling added a metric fuck ton of stuff to do collection/achievement wise
https://xpoff.com/threads/an-actual-honest-to-god-f2p-leaderboard.97434/

 

[Merlin]

1. 1b - If you have XP Off you play against others with XP off. 20-29's get XP Off BG queues

I thought it should work this way but turns out it didn't.. I tried a few 29s with XPon.. and I am still in the same bg with players who are XPoff

 

[Iøve]

Depends, if you are looking for challenging PvE content like M+ or Raids then not really what there was before got mostly removed with the SL scaling changes. BUT if you like completionist content then that same scaling added a metric fuck ton of stuff to do collection/achievement wise
https://xpoff.com/threads/an-actual-honest-to-god-f2p-leaderboard.97434/

20s can do M+ and Raids?? Is that the PvE content we are able to do as F2P? Anything else?
[doublepost=1667115823,1667115668][/doublepost]

Sure. Plenty of 20s out there. The community is kinda scattered and decentralized but 20s certainly exist
yes, but you're queing into xpoff, IE also with 29 twinks. Be prepared to be the farmed rather than to be doing the farming
Noone knows. BIS is likely to change, and rapidly, several times during prepatch/early DF. Good luck out there.
F2P is just fine. Conzils shaman and my warrior are good examples of F2P toons that out geared most vets. Thats unlikely to change. But youre not gonna match even the laziest 29.

Thanks so much. I appreciate the responses. As a former twink I understand that the field is constantly changing and a lot of these questions have different answers next update. I'm just looking for any information because when you come back after two years to twinking... it's like not even WoW anymore hahah
[doublepost=1667117217][/doublepost]

F2P is just fine. Conzils shaman and my warrior are good examples of F2P toons that out geared most vets. Thats unlikely to change. But youre not gonna match even the laziest 29.

Sorry to bother again, just a quick question based on the armory lists I've seen. It seems the ilvl28 greens are the BiS items for 20s. When I was last twinking in BFA, our stat line priorities were main stat > vers > everything else. How is it now? I main Holy Priest and Druids if that helps you tailor a specific answer, although I'd like to have twinks of every class so you can have a general answer too.

 

[Dragonstormy]

Pure f2p's can get nearly onto the same gear lvl as vets. The only difference is the amount of time you need to spent.

You can theoretically outgear Vets with enough coordination. For example if u want a socketed 1 time drop item, You would have to reroll chars until you get it with socket, also stop at lvl 17 or 18 for Classic World Drop BiS Boes (Just Example, nowadays not worth it in most cases)... But that is such a Pain that no F2P really cares about. So gearwise your will be same as vets. Or better than lazy ilvl 28 vets. All this might change in DF tho. But there is clearly no threat from (most) Vets in Pvp.

It's quite fun as pure F2P so I recommend it, but in terms of time consumation you have to choose your realm and classes more carefully, because a Reset is harder.
But there are tons of content you can do, I play WoW F2P since years (not even popping normal BGs) and still enjoy it. I havn't even touched most of the content and am not BiS-Geared either cuz I'm lazy [emoji28].

 

[Chops]

Sorry to bother again, just a quick question based on the armory lists I've seen. It seems the ilvl28 greens are the BiS items for 20s. When I was last twinking in BFA, our stat line priorities were main stat > vers > everything else. How is it now? I main Holy Priest and Druids if that helps you tailor a specific answer, although I'd like to have twinks of every class so you can have a general answer too.

This is all going to change very soon. We're in an expansion pre-patch where blizz has (yet again) completely shifted the gearing meta at 20. If you're wanting to build one of every class, I'd spend this time leveling and not sweating the gear much. Its all very likely to change, very frequently and very rapidly over the next couple weeks/months.

 

[Iøve]

This is all going to change very soon. We're in an expansion pre-patch where blizz has (yet again) completely shifted the gearing meta at 20. If you're wanting to build one of every class, I'd spend this time leveling and not sweating the gear much. Its all very likely to change, very frequently and very rapidly over the next couple weeks/months.

Makes sense. Will do. Thanks again for your responses. The advice has really helped!
[doublepost=1667145066,1667145002][/doublepost]

Pure f2p's can get nearly onto the same gear lvl as vets. The only difference is the amount of time you need to spent.

You can theoretically outgear Vets with enough coordination. For example if u want a socketed 1 time drop item, You would have to reroll chars until you get it with socket, also stop at lvl 17 or 18 for Classic World Drop BiS Boes (Just Example, nowadays not worth it in most cases)... But that is such a Pain that no F2P really cares about. So gearwise your will be same as vets. Or better than lazy ilvl 28 vets. All this might change in DF tho. But there is clearly no threat from (most) Vets in Pvp.

It's quite fun as pure F2P so I recommend it, but in terms of time consumation you have to choose your realm and classes more carefully, because a Reset is harder.
But there are tons of content you can do, I play WoW F2P since years (not even popping normal BGs) and still enjoy it. I havn't even touched most of the content and am not BiS-Geared either cuz I'm lazy [emoji28].

Thanks! This gives me hope to play the game even if end-game content becomes dull! Thank you!

 

[Kaxle]

20s can do M+ and Raids?? Is that the PvE content we are able to do as F2P? Anything else?

Nah I was saying that kind of content isn't really available to 20s. PvE for 20s is collecting and achievement hunting

 

[Merlin]

I thought it should work this way but turns out it didn't.. I tried a few 29s with XPon.. and I am still in the same bg with players who are XPoff

i like to update on my earlier post .. played my lvl29 with xpon today .. all players in the game are lvlers, no twinks at all .. so you are right, xpoff players are group in the same bg, xpon players are playing in another group .. it is fun playing xpon with the 20-29 levelers, nobody uses sockets, even when they have sockets there are no gems in it lololol .. the twinks i met earlier in 20-29 xpon bg, they might be turning their xpon when i encountered them by chance in the bg.

 

[Conzil]

20s are sexier and happier than 29s

Can confirm

 

[JadeFire]

Kind of just dealing with a handful of left over thick-poop right now as far as the 29 player base (just a bunch of trash stiering warlock, etc versus 20s), better to just wait to see what happens in DF.

If the epic gear makes it in as GF (not switched to rare on log-in)... I'd just not bother.