Resto druid viable?

[Wafflecakes]

My main beef is with the word "wrong" which implies some inherent morality to it.



Its still a choice. If someone has the option to gain better abilities and chooses not too.....thats their problem. Not the persons who took advantage of those abilities.



Hell if anyone deserves blame its the 70's (in bg's at least) since they are the ones staying at a lower level in a game designed for being max lvl in each bracket.

 

[Gihipoxu]

You probably mean Furor which no resto druid at lvl 70 can spend any point in.

Ah sorry yeah confused them, been a while ^^ Thanks for pointing that out

 

[Nesyla]

My main beef is with the word "wrong" which implies some inherent morality to it.



Its still a choice. If someone has the option to gain better abilities and chooses not too.....thats their problem. Not the persons who took advantage of those abilities.



Hell if anyone deserves blame its the 70's (in bg's at least) since they are the ones staying at a lower level in a game designed for being max lvl in each bracket.

Alright, i will say that i do not understand and agree with going to 74, instead of using "wrong" as word.

Why should 70's be blamed ?

Should every other twink bracket be blamed as well for not going to 85 than?

Ah sorry yeah confused them, been a while ^^ Thanks for pointing that out

Your Welcome !

 

[Wafflecakes]

Alright, i will say that i do not understand and agree with going to 74, instead of using "wrong" as word.

Why should 70's be blamed ?

Should every other twink bracket be blamed as well for not going to 85 than?





Your Welcome !

Thats my point.



Really level are arbitrary and valuing one over another for ANY reason other than functionality in nonsensical.







I don't really blame 70's. I only said that because if you REALLY think logically about the arguments 70's make about 74's they are more damning towards 70's than 74's.

 

[GigzXx]

I have no issues with people who want to play @ 74 instead of 70. However, my main point is that you can get a lot of haste by staying @ 70 (you lose too much from your secondary stats by going to 74) and the healing throughput isn't made up for in any way. Yes, Cyclone is a great spell, but it won't help you out heal the burst potential of other players. The only thing that will help that is a good amount of haste. The available haste CDs are only really good when you can stack them with haste, so you pretty much have to get that from secondary stats.



Since haste now causes hots to tick more often per their duration (not just faster ticks) it's much better than you might think.

 

[Nesyla]

Thats my point.



Really level are arbitrary and valuing one over another for ANY reason other than functionality in nonsensical.



I don't really blame 70's. I only said that because if you REALLY think logically about the arguments 70's make about 74's they are more damning towards 70's than 74's.

I get your point, let's just say that such a judgement is completely subjective.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I have no issues with people who want to play @ 74 instead of 70. However, my main point is that you can get a lot of haste by staying @ 70 (you lose too much from your secondary stats by going to 74) and the healing throughput isn't made up for in any way. Yes, Cyclone is a great spell, but it won't help you out heal the burst potential of other players. The only thing that will help that is a good amount of haste. The available haste CDs are only really good when you can stack them with haste, so you pretty much have to get that from secondary stats.



Since haste now causes hots to tick more often per their duration (not just faster ticks) it's much better than you might think.

The amount of secondary stats is really minimal unless you are stacking a stat like haste or resilience. Then the amount can be significant.



However, if you are going to stack stats such as Str or Int the losses you incur are tiny compared to what you gain.



For example, on my Shaman (was a 70 in BC I had lying around) which I chardeved in her ele set (so will do my math from that though I am talking mostly about resto) has 28.08% crit chance, 8.94% haste, 15100 hp & 27.91% resilience reduction in a generic pvp set. If I take her to 74 I lose 6.48% crit, 2.27 haste, I GAIN about 1200 health, and lose 6.24% resilience.



Then compare that too the fact that Rshamans scale in a way that makes almost all their heals heal about 25% more at 74 (other healers are about 15-20%). Plus I gain 2 talent points for improved shields which increases earthshield healing by 10% for a total of 35%.



Alone that is enough for me to be of the opinion that the toon would be more powerful at 74 than 70. Thats ignoring the spell resist, improved stealth detection, and increased chance to be missed when attacked by 70's.





(not trying to say everyone is better at 74. Just saying the argument about secondary stats doesn't really hold water)

 

[GigzXx]

For a resto druid, haste is the most important stat now. The way haste scales it far out weighs crit and spell power in terms of impact on your throughput.



I just did a troll druid char dev with all SWP gear.



http://chardev.org/?profile=266692



13594 hp

17720 mana

1515 spell power

37.54% haste

19.52% crit



592 haste rating base

655 total haste rating added from CDs and procs

20% haste added from troll racial

99.16% total haste every 2-3 mins.



That gives each hot an extra 3 ticks per duration, almost 4. Rejuve ticking every 1.6 seconds instead of every 3. Lifebloom ticking every 1 sec instead of every 2. GCD pushed down to almost .5 sec. Unstoppable resto druid, anyone?

 

[Wafflecakes]

I assume that with that build your resil is pretty low? Small health pool as well.



All the haste on earth isn't going to help you if you if you die every time a rogue or mage sneezes in your vicinity.







Could be interesting in arena with a DK partner though. Or maybe a mage?



Edit: Also would like to see a chardev of this. Looking at druid pvp gear it has very little haste at all.

 

[GigzXx]

No resil, but the heals from that setup would be retarded. It wouldn't take much to keep hots rolling 24/7 and counter any incoming burst with CDs. It would probably take a few coordinated rogues to gib that druid.



I think the real issue is the time and effort it would take to get all that gear. Most players expect Brutal to be sufficient with any spec, and resto druids just don't have the throughput to match other healers without having a lot of haste.



I updated the chardev, fixed profs and added the hyperspeed thingy to gloves. more than likely over the haste cap in situations with shams around for totems and Blust.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Have you played druid before?....they are easily the most vulnerable of the healing classes to rogues. If you kept 3x lifebloom and rejuv up 100% of the time you may be able to heal through a rogue but I am very skeptical. Most rogues are smart enough to simply CC you until Hots fall off then attack and you would be done instantly. On my Shaman in ele my average Lava burst/taziks shot does 11k on targets with resil. I mean......most classes could one shot you if they tried. God forbid 2 people attack you.



Hell on my 74 druid in pvp gear and 18.5k health (equivalent to about 23k health if you count in resil to make comparative to the druid you describe) rogues can usually knock of 75% of my health in the duration of their stuns. Even with that its not unheard of for my toon to be killed in that time if the rogue is skilled or gets some lucky crits.



IMO that haste set is a lot cooler in theorycraft than in practice.

 

[Nesyla]

This discussion is just the perfect example of what these forums should serve for, you guys are great to read, bringing valid points on both teory.

Love it.

Peacefull and Mature discussion.

 

[Gihipoxu]

Im not gonna quote everyone but here are my personal experiences which lead me to know that resi stacking up to a certain level is the best way to go:

- Haste is not the most important stat as a resto druid in the 70 bracket, resilience is simply because u can not survive the imbalanced damage otherwise.

- Druid is probably the least vulnerable to rogues, and if u have teammates who know how to peel, rogues are probably one of the least threathening classes, except if teamed with another dps. (Seeing u are stacking resi and not haste, else u should not be surprised to die in a kidney or deep freeze if nothing can be done to stop the damage)

- The best team we met on 70, were some top10 85 players who rolled mage/rogue for the lols, and we played like 3-2 against them. If they have a perfect opener, it was the instant healing touch + healthstone + bm (which u use on the garrote ofc together with some bear abilities) that made the difference between me surviving their opener or dying. Most of the time I came out of their chain with like 1-3k hp and then popped healthstone healing touch, from there on we had the game. However they did not have tazik or synapse, just 2 pyro rockets.

- Being 74 would maybe have lost us those games cause I would take more damage, or maybe an instant cyclone on the mage who wouldve had to pop his trinket on some cc of my lock wouldve been better? Idk but I do know that after so many wins, it was boring to queue, there was no real challenge (the rogue mage team didnt rlly play much) and we ended up trying other stuff. Cyclone definitly wouldve been more entertaining than just running around rolling hots and casting roots ^^

- Druid healing is more than fine on 70 as long as u CAN heal. If u get swapped on or opened on with no hots whatsoever, thats when your haste/intellect wont help anything, and u will die. I could perfectly outheal any setup with my resi, so why would anyone need more haste? I think i had 3% haste 13% crit or something cant recall ^^

I don't believe resto druids are viable atm (As in having the chance to beat any setup). I don't see any way a resto/x team can beat a top rogue/mage which has bis gear and tazik/synapse. If u don't mind losing some games to particular setups/classes I guess resto druid will be fine for you

 

[Wafflecakes]

Im not gonna quote everyone but here are my personal experiences which lead me to know that resi stacking up to a certain level is the best way to go:

- Haste is not the most important stat as a resto druid in the 70 bracket, resilience is simply because u can not survive the imbalanced damage otherwise.

- Druid is probably the least vulnerable to rogues, and if u have teammates who know how to peel, rogues are probably one of the least threathening classes, except if teamed with another dps. (Seeing u are stacking resi and not haste, else u should not be surprised to die in a kidney or deep freeze if nothing can be done to stop the damage)

- The best team we met on 70, were some top10 85 players who rolled mage/rogue for the lols, and we played like 3-2 against them. If they have a perfect opener, it was the instant healing touch + healthstone + bm (which u use on the garrote ofc together with some bear abilities) that made the difference between me surviving their opener or dying. Most of the time I came out of their chain with like 1-3k hp and then popped healthstone healing touch, from there on we had the game. However they did not have tazik or synapse, just 2 pyro rockets.

- Being 74 would maybe have lost us those games cause I would take more damage, or maybe an instant cyclone on the mage who wouldve had to pop his trinket on some cc of my lock wouldve been better? Idk but I do know that after so many wins, it was boring to queue, there was no real challenge (the rogue mage team didnt rlly play much) and we ended up trying other stuff. Cyclone definitly wouldve been more entertaining than just running around rolling hots and casting roots ^^

- Druid healing is more than fine on 70 as long as u CAN heal. If u get swapped on or opened on with no hots whatsoever, thats when your haste/intellect wont help anything, and u will die. I could perfectly outheal any setup with my resi, so why would anyone need more haste? I think i had 3% haste 13% crit or something cant recall ^^

I don't believe resto druids are viable atm (As in having the chance to beat any setup). I don't see any way a resto/x team can beat a top rogue/mage which has bis gear and tazik/synapse. If u don't mind losing some games to particular setups/classes I guess resto druid will be fine for you

1. I disagree with being least vulnerable to rogues. Sure they can run away from a rogue if your team has good peals, but if your partner isn't a DK its never THAT easy to survive the opener. Druid has less armor than pretty much any of the healing classes except priest. Even that is close because of inner fire. However, lets say your partner is CCed for a moment and two teammates go at you. Priest has bubble which takes and absurd amount of damage, Shamans earth shield which is fairly beefy plus they have a lot of armor, and Palis with a crapton of armor and more insta heal options. All three have powerful spells that they can insta cast on using their trinket and all four are more powerful than what the druid can do. I suppose my point isn't just about rogues but I think druids are most vulnerable to burst in general. I do agree with stacking resilience though for pretty much any 70 healer.



2. Anecdotal evidence, the math doesn't really back up the claims about 74's. In my post about shamans it is pretty clear that they are more powerful at 74, and thats without gaining any new abilities. We are sure that by leveling you are less likely to be hit, gain 1.2k health or so, gain a crapton of stealth detection, gain spell resist (that cannot be overcome with spell pen). Plus there are other things you gain that I won't post because I can't prove them for sure. I am not saying every class is better at 74, but most are imo.

 

[Gihipoxu]

Barkskin the stun, bear bash the silence or cat dash and use a recast cat macro on snares. Frenzied regen is also beasr if u saw the swap coming. Plus u can prebuff natures grasp as well, which just forces him to vannish or cloak if he opens with garrote to get a full kidney. There literally are countless things u can do. It is however true druid are more vulnerable to burst in general, but for the reason they dont have a fit heal like flash heal, surge, flash of light. Regrowth isnt bad but its just not nearly as strong as any of those.