Resilience is NOT useless if you receive heals!

Annabelle

Legend
First of all, this patch really brought down the value of resilience. But it is still a very useful stat.

Since resilience doesn't scale linearly, we will only compare the first 8 points of resilience vs 13 stamina. But keep in mind that each point of resilience is worth more, especially at the beginning because the scaling is almost linear but the return is close to exponential. Judging by this armory, the first 7 points of resilience gives 1.47% extra reduction, so it is safe to say that 8 resilience from this or this should give more than 1.65% of reduction.

Let's see what the break-even point is for 8 resilience vs 13 stamina:

x/0.5835=(x+130)/0.6

solving for x, we get x = 4597

So basically, if it takes someone more than 4597 of damage to kill you, then you are still better off with 8 resilience than 13 stamina from AGM.

Well, good healers can usually heal themselves for over 10k before they are taken down, and even if you are not a healer, if you get priest bubble/druid HoT, or even use bandage/potion, they all benefit from resilience.

Again, stamina increases your effective health if you just stand there and do nothing, but resilience increases your longevity, which is extremely important in PvP.
 
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If healers were still how they were last patch and resil is how it is current patch this maybe true or right. No healer can heal themselves for 10k before they die (maybe skewed since I'm using a hunts perspective) and if it takes almost 5k to make resil worth it I would say you are gonna die before that 5k comes around.

Also resil is different on armories because you aren't scaled up to 24. You get 1 or 2 more resil when scaled but I believe the % per point is less. I can do a quick resil check to see how much it changes if we stack it or just use one trinket but I think no matter how much there is a better upgrade then resil now. Only thing that is a toss up to me is AGM or tyranny for the use but I am normally using AGM just because burst is alot higher now and 120 HP helps
 
Definitely needs to be checked out when scaled to 24 in bgs, also why 13 stam vs 8 resil? Is there a specific item trade that has that difference?
 
What you forgot to account for was that since stamina adds to displayed health, someone who gets capped 10 times saves about 1300hp in terms of efficiency. Overheals also mean a lot more with higher displayed health.

The actual equation should be:

x/0.5835=(x+(130*q)/0.6

q being the number of times they get capped.

If you get capped or overheal 10 times, the healing done has to be greater than 46k for resilience to be better than stamina. Most healers don't do 46k healing IN A GAME. I know for a fact that we cap ourselves off or overheal at least 10 times in a game though. Sorry to break it to you but the days of stacking resilience are over.

Wolfram alpha calculations:

x/0.5835=(x+130*10)/0.6 - Wolfram|Alpha
 
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Tiger said:
What you forgot to account for was that since stamina adds to displayed health, someone who gets capped 10 times saves about 1300hp in terms of efficiency. Overheals also mean a lot more with higher displayed health.
Click to expand...

Was about to try and explain this badly, thanks for saving me the embarrassment
 
Tiger said:
What you forgot to account for was that since stamina adds to displayed health, someone who gets capped 10 times saves about 1300hp in terms of efficiency. Overheals also mean a lot more with higher displayed health.

The actual equation should be:

x/0.5835=(x+(130*q)/0.6

q being the number of times they get capped.

If you get capped or overheal 10 times, the healing done has to be greater than 46k for resilience to be better than stamina. Most healers don't do 46k healing IN A GAME. I know for a fact that we cap ourselves off or overheal at least 10 times in a game though. Sorry to break it to you but the days of stacking resilience are over.

Wolfram alpha calculations:

x/0.5835=(x+130*10)/0.6 - Wolfram|Alpha
Click to expand...

this is a common misconception...you are assuming that the person with 41.65% resil over-heals himself every single time...

look at it this way, by your logic, EVEN if 8 resilience decreased the damage taken by 4% (which is way more than pre 5.3), assuming the same parameters, i.e., you cap your health 10 times, you would still need to heal yourself over 18k to justify choosing resilience over stamina:

x/0.56=(x+130*10)/0.6

Wolfram|Alpha
 
Lillhunter said:
Since I'm a hunt and do tops like 5k per bg is it safe to assume stam stacking is better for me ^-^
Click to expand...

well...my title is..."if you receive heals..."

i don't know how much heals you receive per BG, but run recount, divide the amount of heals you receive per game by the amount of deaths per game, if it's over 4600, then you shouldn't stack stamina...
 
Annabelle said:
i don't know how much heals you receive per BG, but run recount, divide the amount of heals you receive per game by the amount of deaths per game, if it's over 4600, then you shouldn't stack stamina...
Click to expand...

See now this I can understand ^-^ Normally I get in an avg bg probably 25k healing and I die normally 5 times so I guess I am right on the edge. HOWEVER I run with AGM+insig so what would my numbers be then since I have the 7 resil as well as the 130 hp lol
 
Lillhunter said:
See now this I can understand ^-^ Normally I get in an avg bg probably 25k healing and I die normally 5 times so I guess I am right on the edge. HOWEVER I run with AGM+insig so what would my numbers be then since I have the 7 resil as well as the 130 hp lol
Click to expand...

give me some more numbers, then I can crunch numbers for you and tell you which set you should go with.

Stats inside BG with usual buffs on:

Code: 
set 1/scenaio 1, resilience, health
set 2/scenaio 2, resilience, health
set 3/scenaio 3, resilience, health
set 4/scenaio 4, resilience, health
set 5/scenaio 5, resilience, health
set 6/scenaio 6, resilience, health

average heal received per BG, average death per BG
 
Annabelle said:
this is a common misconception...you are assuming that the person with 41.65% resil over-heals himself every single time...

look at it this way, by your logic, EVEN if 8 resilience decreased the damage taken by 4% (which is way more than pre 5.3), assuming the same parameters, i.e., you cap your health 10 times, you would still need to heal yourself over 18k to justify choosing resilience over stamina:

x/0.56=(x+130*10)/0.6

Wolfram|Alpha
Click to expand...

It was viable in cata because resiliences don't add, they multiply. If you stacked resil in cata, especially as a plate wearer, you got a much higher PDR than if you do that now because armor damage reduction and resiliance damage reduction are multiplicative. Even in cata it was debateable though, there were still proponents of MM, etc. In MOP, there is no contest. Stam wins out completely.
 
Tiger said:
It was viable in cata because resiliences don't add, they multiply. If you stacked resil in cata, especially as a plate wearer, you got a much higher PDR than if you do that now because armor damage reduction and resiliance damage reduction are multiplicative. Even in cata it was debateable though, there were still proponents of MM, etc. In MOP, there is no contest. Stam wins out completely.
Click to expand...

You are dodging my post tho :) my post made your original post completely invalid...

Answer this, if 8 resil increased your resil from 40% to 44%, would you still choose 13 stamina over it? Because by your original post, you would.

Or, how about this, tell me under what conditions, you would choose 8 resil over 13 stamina.
 
The problem with this is that it is only for healer [FONT=lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]sustainablility. With how bursty the game is[/FONT] people should gear for effective health in order to survive. I[FONT=lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]n terms of effective health stam is definitively more importa[/FONT]nt then resil, considering how before the resil nerf I needed 2600 heath as a protadin to make resil pull ahead.

The other guys equation assumed that every heal was overhealing, but your arguement assumes the the person would never be bursted down.
 
I understand what you guys are trying to say.

But at the same time, I hope you realize that it is very hard to theory-craft without any assumptions.

I am trying to arrive at a reasonable conclusion based on reasonable assumptions. I am not saying resil>stamina just yet, I need some more data.

But at the moment, I have a feeling that resilience is still superior under certain conditions.
 
The value of resil in 5.2 was great. Id love to believe it is still a valuable stat, but the fact of the matter is: the amount of stamina you would need to have or the amount of healing you would need to receive to break the threshold of: stam > resil, is in the majority of situations unobtainable. So, as you, annabelle, a skilled, geared hpala, resil may be valuable at a lower threshold, but for non healing classes in particular, the numbers just dont add up.
I understand this post is probably directed at a few specific gearing decisions: ie. mags mantle v. pvp shoulder and agm v pvp trink. These decisions specifically have more than one factor to account for. To some the crit is more valuable than stamina, to some the 2min cd is more valuable than stamina. Because of this, gearing will always be preference, and im hesitant to label anything as bis at all.
So I know its difficult to let go of that 10% reduction we all loved, just make sure your not in denial trying to convince yourself of facts that no longer exist. Yes farming agm/mm/pve boa blows, but to those who do the grind, the reward is even greater now.
 
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