Regarding GY Jumps for the Twink Cup

anatomyx

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Hello, I'm just pointing out a concern myself and a lot of others have concerning a specific (there may actually be multiple) jump in the Twink Cup.

Twitch

The jump in question happens at 1:18:55. As you can see it's pretty basic, he jumps from below the GY and gets into the GY. Pretty simple, obviously not that hard to perform. When watching those games the other day, Muskie was doing that jump over and over, and all of my guild members watching it thought it was banned along with the fence jumps inside the actual GY. When I talked to a few other players/GMs, nobody really knew if it was allowed. Some said they think it is allowed, some just said they don't know and hope it's not.

So why is this jump in particular such a big deal? Because it provides an insane positional advantage/shortcut. Part of the struggle in premades when your team is on the defensive is that getting your FC to a safe position is very important, and if you are unable to do that you're often punished for it in the form of your FC dying. In every game I've played and watched thus far I have not seen a GY jump used once, so it caught me by surprise to see a guild start abusing it a week before the cup. In my (and a lot of other players who I've spoken to regarding this) opinion, GY jumps such as this are no different, if not WORSE than the fence jumps in the horde GY which are already specifically banned --


Tasslehøf said:
New GY jumps are not allowed due to the enormous advantage they yield to horde side.
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If you want your flag to be safe in the GY, you should have to run around the base to get there, or else drop the flag up. This jump is a fallback for your team playing poorly in midfield; if you're being pushed back into the GY your FC can simply jump into the GY and be 100% safe with how broken the new GYs are to begin with. It's just way too much of a crutch/advantage to be allowed (not to mention only one faction has it to my knowledge) and I'd like to see such jumps be banned from the cup.


TL;DR ----
Jumps that allow you to get from BELOW a graveyard to INSIDE the graveyard should be banned from the Twink Cup, as they provide way too much of a crutch/fallback for a team that is performing badly in midfield (or a team looking to turtle). A team should not be rewarded for poor play in the form of their FC being safe by doing a jump into the already broken graveyards.
 
Hey guys, guess what is happening atm? Confusion on whether jumps are allowed or not - go figure?


Pizza said:
That is the point of the video. Any jump not included in the video is banned.
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Tasslehøf said:
The point was to show what was ALLOWED in the twink cup games.


This also helps out people from a higher level (where jumps aren't common) familiarize themselves with them.
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Conq said:
By presenting one he is logically presenting both, it is very clear. You cannot do a jump in the twinkcup if it is not in this video. There's no gray area.
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Troye said:
All that does is introduce grey area. If someone does a jump that's not in either videos, then what happens? With this video it's simple. There is no grey area, and if you do any jumps that aren't in the video you are breaking the rules. It's a really simple concept and how you struggle to grasp it is baffling.






If the jumps shown in this video that are allowed are the "black area", then all of the jumps that are not shown in the video are the white area; jumps that aren't allowed. There is only black and white.


If there are two videos, one for allowed jumps and another for jumps that aren't allowed, you have black and white, but any jumps not shown in either video would be in the grey area. By having that second video showing jumps that aren't allowed, you are introducing a grey area consisting of any jumps that aren't in either video.
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Saxxon said:
ya seems extremely simple, just dont do the jumps not in the video rofl
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If it was such a simple concept we probably wouldn't be having this problem...
 
the jump wasnt in the vid so i thought it was illegal
 
Saxxon said:
the jump wasnt in the vid so i thought it was illegal
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That's what I thought too. I was watching PING play against you guys and Muskie was just doing it over and over, I thought they were "cheating" under twink cup rules.

Roula talked to Muskie about it and Muskie insisted it is allowed, and I talked to HB earlier and he also said it's allowed. I thought everything not in the video was banned as tons of people agreed on but apparently a handful of players seem to disagree
 
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It shouldn't be banned? It's doable on both factions gy it's also shortcut. Seems to meet the criteria of a not banned jump to me.
 
As far as I'm aware alliance does not have an equivalent jump to get into their graveyard?

If that's the case I don't think it should be allowed as it gives horde a ridiculously unfair advantage.

It's already a shame that flags get passed up to the gy, rewarding bad team mid-field play. But at least when that occurs there is a chance it can be ninja'd so you can potentially be punished for the move.

Edit - Does ally have an equivalent?
 
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Darklumiya said:
As far as I'm aware alliance does not have an equivalent jump to get into their graveyard?

If that's the case I don't think it should be allowed as it gives horde a ridiculously unfair advantage.

It's already a shame that flags get passed up to the gy, rewarding bad team mid-field play. But at least when that occurs there is a chance it can be ninja'd so you can potentially be punished for the move.

Edit - Does ally have an equivalent?
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Yes alliance has one too
 
Darklumiya said:
It's already a shame that flags get passed up to the gy, rewarding bad team mid-field play. But at least when that occurs there is a chance it can be ninja'd so you can potentially be punished for the move.
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Exactly, rewarding a teams bad play is what i don't want to see happen at all. If a flag gets passed up I think that's okay because the real FC would still have to go all the way around to actually grab it again. Even if the same type of jump exists on Alliance it should be banned. Letting every team safely jump into the gy and turtle when they're in trouble is a complete joke
 
In addition to this (I will make its own thread if not addressed), is it possible to have a written list of possible jumps, maybe accompanied by youtube or vod links so people can read what is allowed and then also see it in action? To me it seems like a big problem to have the ability to just have a team be dismissed from a tournament because of ambiguity regarding jumps.
 
Grizzlefoot said:
In addition to this (I will make its own thread if not addressed), is it possible to have a written list of possible jumps, maybe accompanied by youtube or vod links so people can read what is allowed and then also see it in action? To me it seems like a big problem to have the ability to just have a team be dismissed from a tournament because of ambiguity regarding jumps.
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I think the rules are clear on any jump being allowed as long as it doesn't utilize gob crutching as the only way to do it.

The grey area is the wording on how jumps utilizing the new gyard fences are not allowed, however it is my belief that getting on top of the gyard from below should be banned as well due to its ease and catering to poor playing teams.

Teams can pass the flag up and take the risk of a ninja, let it be that and that only.
 
Darklumiya said:
I think the rules are clear on any jump being allowed as long as it doesn't utilize gob crutching as the only way to do it.

The grey area is the wording on how jumps utilizing the new gyard fences are not allowed, however it is my belief that getting on top of the gyard from below should be banned as well due to its ease and catering to poor playing teams.

Teams can pass the flag up and take the risk of a ninja, let it be that and that only.
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Making sure that rules that can just get a team ejected from a tournament are clear is vital and worth the minimal effort it should take to clear everything up.
 
All tunnel, fence, and stump jumps are allowed, and people are allowed to use jumps to take them anywhere on the map that they would be able to get to without jumping. Using class abilities, goblin jump, toys, or anything else to take you somewhere that you can only get to using these abilities is not allowed. All jumps using the new graveyard walls are forbidden. The following video provides an example of some permitted jumps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzUt0-QoYE4
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The jump is currently allowed because it doesn't use the new GY walls. There isn't going to be a new video, the old video was supposed to do what people are suggesting now but it didn't have the desired effect, so the rules were made simpler.

From my perspective this is really frustrating because this is an issue that was being discussed weeks ago while the rules committee was in session, I think things were made pretty clear and there was a fairly open dialogue with the community. The community pushed for a rules committee and the rules were supposed to be final, these were the rules that were decided on, and now if I want to change them I have to supersede the committee that people were so adamant about having because people didn't express their concerns weeks ago.
 
Myrm said:
The jump is currently allowed because it doesn't use the new GY walls. There isn't going to be a new video, the old video was supposed to do what people are suggesting now but it didn't have the desired effect, so the rules were made simpler.

From my perspective this is really frustrating because this is an issue that was being discussed weeks ago while the rules committee was in session, I think things were made pretty clear and there was a fairly open dialogue with the community. The community pushed for a rules committee and the rules were supposed to be final, these were the rules that were decided on, and now if I want to change them I have to supersede the committee that people were so adamant about having because people didn't express their concerns weeks ago.
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It's frustrating from everyones perspective, but it's good that these issues are coming up before the cup instead of during it, wouldn't you agree? Why not just make it so the video posted is the "jump rulebook" and anything NOT in the video (regardless of being new or not) is banned?

It's really puzzling to me that a video dedicated entirely to this subject exists, yet there are still jumps *NOT* in the video that are considered fine for pretty much no reason. Why leave any grey area at all? Just ban everything not in the video.

That's by far the simplest way of handling this subject and it also ruins the use of GY jumps in question which pretty much everyone has agreed should not be allowed because they will ruin games.
 
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