Raiding the Horde with a twink group.

[thubble]

So my friends and I want to put a group of about 5 to 10 together which will primarily consist of level 20 f2p's and perhaps a couple or so various higher levels thrown in as well. Where would be a good place to go kill horde players(npc's are boring) that might be around our level. We want somewhere that's not going to be too sparsely populated and yet on the other hand still manageable (obviously a raid on Orgrimar would be biting off than we can chew hehhe). Please feel free to comment with any suggestions or ideas you have on this

 

[Kiraush]

Please feel free to comment with any suggestions or ideas you have on this.

World PvP died out around the end of Vanilla, it was kept alive a bit with the world PvP capture "events" in Outlands, but it was not the same as Vanilla, and I dared to say WotLK was the death of it, but who knew Blizzard could kill something that was already dead by putting 90 elite guards all over every inch of the game? Anywhere worth your time has level 90 elite guards somewhere near it, and with the game growing to be so large, and max level not being a feat anymore, the odds of you finding someone to kill who also happens to be PvP'd is pretty slim.

But if you want a real answer, you should try out Barrens, people will be hitting level 10 there and if they're new instantly hopping into a battleground, where they will get their asses handed to them to BoA hunters and then give up Battlegrounds for a rather long time, which will give you 5 minutes to hunt them down and kill them.

But that's just my two cents.

 

[Zobber]

So my friends and I want to put a group of about 5 to 10 together which will primarily consist of level 20 f2p's and perhaps a couple or so various higher levels thrown in as well. Where would be a good place to go kill horde players(npc's are boring) that might be around our level. We want somewhere that's not going to be too sparsely populated and yet on the other hand still manageable (obviously a raid on Orgrimar would be biting off than we can chew hehhe). Please feel free to comment with any suggestions or ideas you have on this

You don't say which server you plan to do this on. That will make all the difference. I made a level 20 Alliance rogue on Illidan, a pvp server that is 98% horde. I just head to Hillsbrad whenever I feel like world pvp. I love ganking, but only people higher level than I am. It is a lot of fun.

World pvp is alive and well. You just have to have some patience and a plan.

My rogue ) Cykawtik @ Illidan - Game Guide - World of Warcraft

 

[thubble]

World PvP died out around the end of Vanilla, it was kept alive a bit with the world PvP capture "events" in Outlands, but it was not the same as Vanilla, and I dared to say WotLK was the death of it, but who knew Blizzard could kill something that was already dead by putting 90 elite guards all over every inch of the game? Anywhere worth your time has level 90 elite guards somewhere near it, and with the game growing to be so large, and max level not being a feat anymore, the odds of you finding someone to kill who also happens to be PvP'd is pretty slim.

But if you want a real answer, you should try out Barrens, people will be hitting level 10 there and if they're new instantly hopping into a battleground, where they will get their asses handed to them to BoA hunters and then give up Battlegrounds for a rather long time, which will give you 5 minutes to hunt them down and kill them.

But that's just my two cents.

And a great 2 cents it is. I didn't know that much about the history of it so that's interesting to hear. I'll try the barrens perhaps if I'm feeling lucky. Thanks.

 

[thubble]

You don't say which server you plan to do this on. That will make all the difference. I made a level 20 Alliance rogue on Illidan, a pvp server that is 98% horde. I just head to Hillsbrad whenever I feel like world pvp. I love ganking, but only people higher level than I am. It is a lot of fun.

World pvp is alive and well. You just have to have some patience and a plan.

My rogue ) Cykawtik @ Illidan - Game Guide - World of Warcraft

No, I'm not on a pvp server but your response is seriously making me consider rolling a toon on one. Before I'd always think no way should you do a pvp server when you're limited to level 20 because you're going to be ganked a lot and never be able to get revenge without help of friends. But I guess if you're careful you can keep your deaths to a minimum while then giving you the possibility once you're BIS to do some damage yourself

 

[NavyRetired]

world PVP was NOT Dead in WOTLK on a pvp server....
there where always raids being put together to KILL the King/raid a city....
Also on apvp server you had STV and South Shore for huge battles almost daily! It starts out as a couple 20 somethings questing and getting GANKED by an 80. So you hop on your main and gank/CAMP the loser. After you kill him 3-4 times he crys to his guild that he's being camped by a meanie and now theres 3 of them, so you call out to your guild and next thing you know its a guild war. mass fun!

 

[Shft]

Man you capitalize things for no reason.^


I began in BC, but Ive spent a month or two on vanilla private servers. You guys are obviously just having some serious nostalgia, not that it's bad, but you're totally forgetting all of the bad and only thinking of the fun you had. World pvp was done in by flying mounts, when you simply didnt have to fight people you didnt want to because you're flying and not on the ground, nobody but actual pvpers are going to pvp. That's okay, with BC came arenas and I think that anyone who was serious at all in pvp most likely enjoyed that far more than ganking fresh 60s in EPL.

 

[pinochet]

Just because there are people in their mid-20s that you can kill once or twice on pvp servers does not mean world pvp is a thing.

Back in wow classec, enemies ingame didn't necessarily have a 60 to log over to, and wouldn't be able to get to you quickly even if they did, thanks to +100% ground mounts being the best available, and prohibitively expensive for many people anyway. If you started pvping with someone in a questing zone, they pretty much had to fight you off with that character, ask for help from other questers in /1, or log off.

Add to this the fact that stat inflation wasn't absurd in classic. Several 40s could definitely fight off a 60, because raid gear barely existed. 60s only had twice your health and damage. These days, every single class at 85 can one-shot a lv 55 with their go-to damage spell. All it takes is for one person to get upset and bring out their 85 and your world pvp is over. Within minutes. A full raid group of lv 20s couldn't possibly bring down a level 85, let alone a little 3-man "world pvp for lolz" expedition.

This led to long and interesting world pvp fights in questing zones in wow classic (and early TBC to the extent that 70s were rare). People using pvp to settle conflict ingame; you could expect a fight to go back and forth a few times, and you'd continue to run into the same levelers for a few days in the same few zones. It wasn't fun for everyone all the time, but it was sometimes very fun, and the PvE vs PvP server decision was an interesting and worthwhile one. This has entirely ended due to the one-sidedness of max-level vs sub-max-level fights and the ease of bringing out an 85.

World pvp as a thing has been nerfed into the ground and is never coming back. Even the areas designed for structured world pvp (halaa, auchidoun, silithus, EPL if it survived cata) don't have any protection against 85s ruining the day, so it's no surprise that no one does them anymore, even when leveling through the zones.

An 85 in quest gear is an opponent that literally cannot be beaten by sub-75 players even with absolutely perfect skill and coordination. World pvp cannot exist below level 85, because anyone who logs over to their 85 literally and unquestionably wins unless you can do the same.

(This is why I think item squish would be a fantastic idea, btw)

 

[Buckeye]

Blizz will never do item squish for this very reason, even though it is the best argument why item squish SHOULD be implemented.

 

[Kiraush]

.,.

 

[Zobber]

Just because there are people in their mid-20s that you can kill once or twice on pvp servers does not mean world pvp is a thing.

Back in wow classec, enemies ingame didn't necessarily have a 60 to log over to, and wouldn't be able to get to you quickly even if they did, thanks to +100% ground mounts being the best available, and prohibitively expensive for many people anyway. If you started pvping with someone in a questing zone, they pretty much had to fight you off with that character, ask for help from other questers in /1, or log off.

Add to this the fact that stat inflation wasn't absurd in classic. Several 40s could definitely fight off a 60, because raid gear barely existed. 60s only had twice your health and damage. These days, every single class at 85 can one-shot a lv 55 with their go-to damage spell. All it takes is for one person to get upset and bring out their 85 and your world pvp is over. Within minutes. A full raid group of lv 20s couldn't possibly bring down a level 85, let alone a little 3-man "world pvp for lolz" expedition.

This led to long and interesting world pvp fights in questing zones in wow classic (and early TBC to the extent that 70s were rare). People using pvp to settle conflict ingame; you could expect a fight to go back and forth a few times, and you'd continue to run into the same levelers for a few days in the same few zones. It wasn't fun for everyone all the time, but it was sometimes very fun, and the PvE vs PvP server decision was an interesting and worthwhile one. This has entirely ended due to the one-sidedness of max-level vs sub-max-level fights and the ease of bringing out an 85.

World pvp as a thing has been nerfed into the ground and is never coming back. Even the areas designed for structured world pvp (halaa, auchidoun, silithus, EPL if it survived cata) don't have any protection against 85s ruining the day, so it's no surprise that no one does them anymore, even when leveling through the zones.

An 85 in quest gear is an opponent that literally cannot be beaten by sub-75 players even with absolutely perfect skill and coordination. World pvp cannot exist below level 85, because anyone who logs over to their 85 literally and unquestionably wins unless you can do the same.

(This is why I think item squish would be a fantastic idea, btw)

You make a few good points but only a few. I pretty much disagree entirely with your conclusion. You view world pvp in quite a limited way. I do it all the time and have ever since release. And I will continue to do so. It is hella fun.

Is it the same as it was once? No. Is it what you want it to be? No. Can it be done by someone who knows what they are doing. Yup. )

Many people think world pvp is only the TM zerg of days gone by. I personally found that to be boring and got tired of it even when it was at its height. But to each their own. I enjoy taking a low level toon out and killing people higher level than me and then going somewhere else once the 85s show up. Or killing their lowbie friends right under their noses.

In my experience, those who say world pvp is dead only want to zerg a town somewhere and kill flagged lowbies. That is why there are guards in towns. Go out in the world with a lowbie and have fun. But if you stop to cut yourself and cry everytime you get killed and camped you won't have fun. Being killed by higher level toons is to be expected in world pvp. And getting away from them when they try to corpse camp you is a blast.

 

[pinochet]

You make a few good points but only a few. I pretty much disagree entirely with your conclusion.
(snip)
Many people think world pvp is only the TM zerg of days gone by. I personally found that to be boring and got tired of it even when it was at its height. But to each their own. I enjoy taking a low level toon out and killing people higher level than me and then going somewhere else once the 85s show up. Or killing their lowbie friends right under their noses.

In my experience, those who say world pvp is dead only want to zerg a town somewhere and kill flagged lowbies. That is why there are guards in towns. Go out in the world with a lowbie and have fun. But if you stop to cut yourself and cry everytime you get killed and camped you won't have fun. Being killed by higher level toons is to be expected in world pvp. And getting away from them when they try to corpse camp you is a blast.

I'm not talking about TB-southshore conflict (which I wasn't around for), or ganking flagged lowbies. My post is about being able to run into other people questing in the same zone as you on a pvp server, and being able to gank them, kill them for competing for your spawns, retaliate for the same, or pursue zone pvp objectives. This kind of world pvp is just gone from the game, for the reasons I outlined.

What is left is 85 vs 85 conflict that may have started from a world encounter, or else player vs rez timer combat. Neither of these is genuine world pvp anymore, and we've lost one of the few elements that separates MMOs from a single player RPG (that lets you raid/arena after you're done leveling). It's no surprise people see leveling as a boring chore to be endured so that the real game can begin. Because frankly, the fetch-and-kill quest experience is boring as hell compared to modern fantasy RPGs like Skyrim, Zelda: Skyward Sword, FFXIII, etc. Even with the cataclysm revamp.

You say you really do enjoy killing someone 1-2 times and then "going somewhere else"--presumably until your victim is done with the zone, since he will have an 85 parked in the quest hub in case you harass them or /localdefense. If you're getting enjoyment from this, then world pvp of a sort does exist for you. But I would find that narrow and unenjoyable, especially compared to the world pvp that existed before rapid transit and massive stat differences.

WoW could bring world pvp back by changing the pvp flagging system in a way that forbids someone outsize a zone's level range from attacking someone within that range. Since spells scale with all levels now anyway, they could also institute RIFT-like level (down)scaling if you wanted to flag yourself for pvp within a lower-level zone. All they would need would be a debuff that put you in the "low level" pvp flag, dropped you to level X for combat calculation purposes, downranked your spells to the appropriate level, and set a maximum value for each of your stats. But I honestly can't picture blizz devoting development time to this sort of feature.

(As a sidenote re: your post, I don't have a clue how you plan to get away from a level 85 on a 310% speed flyer without a flying mount of your own, let alone have any sort of fun attempting to.)