PvP Power Useless or Useful?

Amaya

Legend
Been doing some number crunching to see what ideal gems are for Frost DKs for PvP by testing Frost Strike damage. Using BiS unenchanted, ungemmed, non reforged Wrathful/MoP/Cata gear as the baseline. This is a Dual Wield Frost Built evaluating Frost Strike damage.

As you can see PvP Power has a slight edge over Mastery, of course you can't gem Mastery outside of 308+ items and there aren't many Mastery enchants.

This shows to me that ideal for Frost DK is gemming and enchanting full PvP Power, reforging and enchanting Mastery, and lastly enchanting Strength. Sadly it appears as if the +170 Mastery enchant is actually slightly superior to Strength in terms of Frost Strike Damage, which might make Blacksmithing potentially superior to Leatherworking.


PVP POWER
0.60.50.40.30.2
MasteryStrengthPvP PowerMasteryFSvs40%vs50%vs60%vs70%vs80%
003001.39775918132.2912129.3210107.768086.2126064.6594043.106
39.77589011.4891312129.3210107.768086.2126064.6594043.106
11130030012962.6111149.399336.1577522.9295709.7
MASTERY
0.60.50.40.30.2
MasteryStrengthPvP PowerMasteryFSvs40%vs50%vs60%vs70%vs80%
300001.52845719827.7611896.669913.887931.1045948.3283965.552
52.845740011896.669913.887931.1045948.3283965.552
11130030011896.669913.887931.1045948.3283965.552
STRENGTH
0.60.50.40.30.2
MasteryStrengthPvP PowerMasteryFSvs40%vs50%vs60%vs70%vs80%
030001.39775918341.9511005.179170.9767336.7815502.5853668.39
39.77589300011005.179170.9767336.7815502.5853668.39
11130030011005.179170.9767336.7815502.5853668.39
 
After further crunching Leatherworking is very slightly superior to Blacksmithing for PvP. Wearing the 409 helm, cloth gloves, and plate belt, and stacking mastery and PvP power at the expense of strength will yield slightly weaker Obliterates in PvP, but Frost Strikes will be hitting roughly 1k higher on 70% resil.

Edit: Interesting note, you can achieve 20% PvP Power with Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing as a clothy using offset Heroic ICC pieces and you have 3 slots to put epic Cata gems in.

Here are the stats (full enchants no reforging)

7189 Spell Power
33.46 Haste
12.66 Hit
42.75 Crit
839 Mastery
20.5 PvP Power
40% Resil
 
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Splosion said:
What BiS are you using? And from doing number crunching you're finding a mastery-esque stat is more powerful than a stat you already have a lot of? No surprises there, PvP power was expected to be good from the get-go.
Click to expand...

PvP Power has no connection to Mastery and it is irrelevant how much strength you have as PvP Power outscales it. PvP Power is the limiting factor in damage output.
 
Amaya said:
PvP Power has no connection to Mastery and it is irrelevant how much strength you have as PvP Power outscales it. PvP Power is the limiting factor in damage output.
Click to expand...

Nice misunderstanding of what I meant. Mastery is a % increase to damage. PvP power is a % increase to damage. Since PvP power affects the damage from mastery in addition to the damage mastery doesn't affect, added to the fact that we have ZERO on gear from the start, it will be a better stat, period.

Str got outscaled as soon as we started using the MoP weapons. Scaling has nothing to do with it, PvP power is worse than str at low weapon damage/AP values, but i assume you'd know that already.
 
The fact that there is zero on gear is irrelevant, it scales linearly not exponentially.
 
AP scales linearly. PvP power gets better per point the more str you have (and mastery/crit), so no, it's an exponential stat. It will get better per point the more other stats you have. If you have zero on gear it'll have a very high value, assuming high values of other stats.

I'm really struggling to understand why you're thinking otherwise.
 
Splosion said:
AP scales linearly. PvP power gets better per point the more str you have (and mastery/crit), so no, it's an exponential stat. It will get better per point the more other stats you have. If you have zero on gear it'll have a very high value, assuming high values of other stats.

I'm really struggling to understand why you're thinking otherwise.
Click to expand...

That's not how exponential scaling works. What you're describing a dependent variable.

Each point of PvP Power is equal to the last point. The sum of the parts increases, but the value of parts remains static. It is simply superior to other stats because it is working from such a high starting point (409 weapon damage).

You're really bad at math, aren't you?


Edit: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6490579264


Summary:
-PVP Resilience has slightly increasing returns.
-You can get a significant increase in PVP Resilience through gemming.
-PVP Power does not "cancel out" a target's PVP Resilience but it will still help you hit them harder.
-PVP Power has linear returns (+265 PVP Power gives you +1% damage/healing in PVP)
-I do not definitively know if PVP Power is better than the primary stats for every class and spec, it will require theory crafting by players who really know each class.
 
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When does PvP power not scale from other stats? Calling me bad at math (I'm not, but you're just fighting for a silly point) isn't going to prove anything at all.

Sure, PvP power per point doesn't change as you get more of it, but that isn't what I said. If you have high PvP power and say...low mastery, mastery suddenly has a high value. Might want to try and actually read what I typed.
 
Splosion said:
When does PvP power not scale from other stats? Calling me bad at math (I'm not, but you're just fighting for a silly point) isn't going to prove anything at all.

Sure, PvP power per point doesn't change as you get more of it, but that isn't what I said. If you have high PvP power and say...low mastery, mastery suddenly has a high value. Might want to try and actually read what I typed.
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. Go build a model and test it.

Perhaps you should read what I wrote as well, your comprehension is a bit disappointing.
 
Sigh. Yay for forum arguments.

You have 1k AP. This increases damage by 10000.
You have 10% mastery. this increases your damage by 10% (1000)
You have 0% PvP power, this increases your damage by 0% (0)

If we increase mastery to 15%, you gain 500 damage.
If we increase PvP power instead to 5%(same stat value), you gain 550 damage.

Different scenario.

You have 10k AP. This increases damage by 100000
You have 25% mastery, this increases your damage by 25% (25000)
You have 0% PvP power, this increases your damage by 0% (0)

If we increase mastery to 35%, you gain 10000 damage.
If we increase PvP power to 10% instead, you gain 12500 damage.

See what I just did? I'm fully aware of how the stats scale independantly, but what you're ignoring is how they scale when compared. My exemplary numbers are napkin (assuming same +rating for both mastery and PvP power), but the concept applies.

Who's misunderstanding who again? I'm sure you have another blizzard forum link from eldacar or something to back your oh-so-accurate points up, so do go on.
 
You completely ignored weapon damage.

Also 1k AP = 71.4 DPS. What the hell is that 10,000?

Actually that entire post was laughable.
 
It was math with no connection to anything thus rendering it pointless. At least use appropriate values before you start babbling nonsense.

Do you even play this game anymore?
 
View attachment 677

Here is a graph for you. The X-Axis represents base top end weapon damage. The Y-Axis represents DPS. Each of the variables is inputted at 1000 Rating/Strength as they are valued at level 80. The mix is 250 of each variable. Here is a chart of the information. As you can see 5000 weapon damage is the point where all stats are >= strength/attack power. It is important to note that Shadowmourne's Damage is only 3000, so this information is only now relevant due to access to ilevel 409 weapons. Most of your information is not inherently inaccurate (but your understanding of it is), it is simply outdated and no longer applicable to level 80 twinks.

Base DMGHasteCritAPPvP PowerMix
1000 343 320 549 364 416
2000 687 641 812 728 743
3000 1,030 961 1,075 1,092 1,071
4000 1,374 1,282 1,338 1,456 1,398
5000 1,717 1,602 1,602 1,820 1,725
6000 2,061 1,923 1,865 2,184 2,052
7000 2,404 2,243 2,128 2,548 2,380
8000 2,747 2,564 2,391 2,912 2,707
9000 3,091 2,884 2,654 3,275 3,034
 

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Average WoW player + Math = failure

As much as I dislike 90% of what Glance says, I have to commend him for at least thinking outside the box and attempting to analyze things instead of being a sheep and going hurr durr AGILITY >
 
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