Premade Rules for 10v10 WSG
- Thread starter AlbinoCow
- Start date
Ohai
OG
I believe that reducing stacking of OP classes results in more interesting and fun match-ups.
I'd like to see:
0 BM Monks
1 Spriest per side
4 healer per team cap (considerations for 3 if we start seeing games that are just pure turtle, but i suspect with the way stacks currently work it really won't be needed)
Wishfully:
Some kind of limit on druids, either a certain number of feral (1 or 2) or just a cap of 2 or 3 on druids in total. Not sure what is optimal.
These wouldn't have to be set in stone, and we could play with the numbers until we feel like the comps are coming out the way we want.
I'd like to see:
0 BM Monks
1 Spriest per side
4 healer per team cap (considerations for 3 if we start seeing games that are just pure turtle, but i suspect with the way stacks currently work it really won't be needed)
Wishfully:
Some kind of limit on druids, either a certain number of feral (1 or 2) or just a cap of 2 or 3 on druids in total. Not sure what is optimal.
These wouldn't have to be set in stone, and we could play with the numbers until we feel like the comps are coming out the way we want.
Kunz
OG
4 healers per team
No more than 2 per class
No Bm Monks
Straight and simple!
I believe that these 3 rules are simple and effective enough for our bracket. I know that people are worried about things like double spriest or double boomkin etc. But by just saying 2 per class if you decide to run double spriest or double boomkin you are taking away the opportunity of using a guardian druid or a disc priest which are necessary in my opinion. As for the BM monk rule, they have been the recipient of constant attacks as of late and with their new buffs that they are receiving in 6.1 (buff to keg smash and guard), it just seemed necessary to not include them.
No more than 2 per class
No Bm Monks
Straight and simple!
I believe that these 3 rules are simple and effective enough for our bracket. I know that people are worried about things like double spriest or double boomkin etc. But by just saying 2 per class if you decide to run double spriest or double boomkin you are taking away the opportunity of using a guardian druid or a disc priest which are necessary in my opinion. As for the BM monk rule, they have been the recipient of constant attacks as of late and with their new buffs that they are receiving in 6.1 (buff to keg smash and guard), it just seemed necessary to not include them.
willix
Legend
Re: 10v10 WSG Wargames - 1/30/15
Problems with BM:
1. Keg Smash does roughly 50% more damage than it should.
2. Dizzying Haze is a 40 yard range AoE that has no energy cost, cast time, or CD.
3. Guard absorbs something like 1.5k damage on a 30 sec CD and can't be dispelled.
The fact that BM is so good makes any other tank spec undesirable in WSG. Why bring a prot war/paladin or a Guardian druid when you have a BM monk? Prot specs finally got toned down from their crazy MoP damage numbers, now it's BM who is ridiculous to the point of being a detriment to games.
Who else is a detriment? Feral druids. Problems with Feral:
1. Ferocious Bite does 50% more damage than it should.
2. Savage Roar is accessible by druids at low levels, giving them a window to do 40% extra damage. A good druid will keep this up near 100% of the time.
3. Tiger's Fury is accessible by druids at low levels, giving them a window to do 15% extra damage. Stack this with Savage Roar and 65% extra damage is insane.
Problems with BM:
1. Keg Smash does roughly 50% more damage than it should.
2. Dizzying Haze is a 40 yard range AoE that has no energy cost, cast time, or CD.
3. Guard absorbs something like 1.5k damage on a 30 sec CD and can't be dispelled.
The fact that BM is so good makes any other tank spec undesirable in WSG. Why bring a prot war/paladin or a Guardian druid when you have a BM monk? Prot specs finally got toned down from their crazy MoP damage numbers, now it's BM who is ridiculous to the point of being a detriment to games.
Who else is a detriment? Feral druids. Problems with Feral:
1. Ferocious Bite does 50% more damage than it should.
2. Savage Roar is accessible by druids at low levels, giving them a window to do 40% extra damage. A good druid will keep this up near 100% of the time.
3. Tiger's Fury is accessible by druids at low levels, giving them a window to do 15% extra damage. Stack this with Savage Roar and 65% extra damage is insane.
Donteventrii
OG
0 BMs or Ferals
1 Spriest
3 ranged, 3 melee
1 Spriest
3 ranged, 3 melee
Stabilt
-
limit of 2 of each class =)
Idk if a bm would be a big problem as they would probs have to FC..
Youre not sitting out on boomkins in wod like u could in mop and youre obv running rdruid so druids locked.
You kinda need a disc so only one sp left to use
who plays with feral in a 10v10 premade xd maybe rogue as only melee and arguably warrior but thats it =)
Idk if a bm would be a big problem as they would probs have to FC..
Youre not sitting out on boomkins in wod like u could in mop and youre obv running rdruid so druids locked.
You kinda need a disc so only one sp left to use
who plays with feral in a 10v10 premade xd maybe rogue as only melee and arguably warrior but thats it =)
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Honey Badger
OG
How about a team gets to have either a BM or Feral? I can only imagine a coordinated Efc kill - Keg smash followed by a 5 point ferocious bite. Who needs stacks. Lol
Sebs
Legend
What happened to your awesome signature?
Shook
Legend
I think there is a huge difference between a BM monk with guard and without guard. We aren't talking about a OP 1-2k shield... This is a 4k-6k non-dispelable shield with a super low CD and lasts 30 seconds. The use of a ranged/spamable slows that costs no resources only takes away from competitive play. Example: If i have a BM on my team, there is no reason for me to use frost shock/earth-bind when they can just spam barrels on everyone and their dog. There would have to be ridiculous rules for me to be ok with them in premades @29 (ie: only may use keg smash if holding flag, etc..). Also, It isn't eliminating a entire class... WW is a great viable option and even has a aoe stun. If you are bringing a BM monk for offensive purposes in a premade, then you are scum in my book.
I don't find Ferals that bad. I could understand the allowance of flashbombs just to even out the OPness of them as long as they are not used on Resto/Guardians.
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Stamm
Legend
I'm happy to see some competitive p2p games in the bracket, so I'll put forth the rules we used in f2p 10v10's and offer seemingly necessary variations.
3 healers
Only 2 of each class (and coincidently we had no doubling up of specs)
Either feral or rogue, not both. (never saw a game use a feral, but the boomkin or resto would drop a 5 point fero on EFC to help burst sometimes)
BM monks regularly did 150k-200k dmg in a full game (remember, f2ps here) which both teams had gdruid fc's. If it's obvious BM causes a problem in this situation, eliminate it. It's worth 1-2 possibly butthurt people to have a more balanced/competitive game.
3 healers
Only 2 of each class (and coincidently we had no doubling up of specs)
Either feral or rogue, not both. (never saw a game use a feral, but the boomkin or resto would drop a 5 point fero on EFC to help burst sometimes)
BM monks regularly did 150k-200k dmg in a full game (remember, f2ps here) which both teams had gdruid fc's. If it's obvious BM causes a problem in this situation, eliminate it. It's worth 1-2 possibly butthurt people to have a more balanced/competitive game.
Donteventrii
OG
What's absurd? The fact that they've been deemed OP (the absurdity being the determination), or that a premade could possibly happen without the two specs?
It's the fact that BM is a very useful spec in premades, whether that be flag carrying, applying spread pressure in mid by using keg smash every 8 seconds and spamming barrels. The spec is simply game changing. The spammable slow has been into play for a while, it seems as if you and others are trying to put the fire out with gasoline, it's never been a problem. The main problems are Keg Smash and the 5k absorb from guard. From my time playing my BM Monk, I can assure you that it doesn't take much to take me down when guard is on cd when there's an opposing top tier class on me, ie monk, feral, spriest, ret, etc.
Consumables, really? Allowing consumables in premades to counter a class is also ridiculous, Assuming wargames will be the go to, then this is not an option at all.
Either way premades will happen with or without these two specs. Assuming one of each will be allowed, both team will have to use them in order for it to be a fair game.
why is it that people try to completely eliminate a class because they are too op, carry out the most reasonable alternative by using the same classes or countering.
Honey Badger
OG
I'd rather not have a BM than to say a BM can't use guard or kegsmash. As a FC I welcome the challenge of having field awareness from myself and teammates to avoid a BM monk. Monk slows doesn't slow my Wild charge. 
plus teams may have to bring in a Mage to be on BM cc duty. It forces teams to collectively have awareness. Plus I may use pots in bgs to screw around but I believe in no pots or anything that can't be used in a lvl 100 RBG or Arena shouldn't be ever permitted in premades . That being said terroin exploits are not prohibited in lvl 100 RBG or Arena. They do happen but are not permitted. Ally has advantages such as worgen sprint, But ally doesn't have an Belf silence or Tauren stomp. At the end of the day, It's really is up to the coordinator of war game or the 2 leaders of the team. That's my 2 cents.
Regardless best of of luck on the participants of the war games
BM or no BM I don't care
plus teams may have to bring in a Mage to be on BM cc duty. It forces teams to collectively have awareness. Plus I may use pots in bgs to screw around but I believe in no pots or anything that can't be used in a lvl 100 RBG or Arena shouldn't be ever permitted in premades . That being said terroin exploits are not prohibited in lvl 100 RBG or Arena. They do happen but are not permitted. Ally has advantages such as worgen sprint, But ally doesn't have an Belf silence or Tauren stomp. At the end of the day, It's really is up to the coordinator of war game or the 2 leaders of the team. That's my 2 cents.
Regardless best of of luck on the participants of the war games
BM or no BM I don't care
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Shaket
Legend
In 5.1 I'm sure you would have felt that shield-slam glyphed prot warrs were very useful in premades. Confirm/deny?
Donteventrii
OG
Is it considered cheating to swap to 6% run speed during the premade?
Shook
Legend
I was simply giving my 2 cents and not here to argue with anyone. I will play no matter the rules. If a hero class, that defines a new level of OP, is wanted, then by all means, do it. However, I will always oppose allowing a spec that, if missing wasn't an issue, could compete in higher level brackets.