So with the re-introduction of our beloved stats, i've got a question for all you theorycrafters out there.
The question on my mind is, out of the three talents given to outlaw rogues, which one is mathematically the best one to play with, hit me up with the math and your own theory regarding talents.
the pistol shot that procs is no longer free, it's half cost, that's why I'd say quick draw is more beneficial, you get more damage and more combo points per energy
the pistol shot that procs is no longer free, it's half cost, that's why I'd say quick draw is more beneficial, you get more damage and more combo points per energy
With regards to comparing weaponmaster and quick draw, there's two different angles one can look at:
1. How much they improve the the expected damage of [sinister-strike plus the reduced-cost-and-stronger-pistol-shot], and
2. How much they improve the expected combat point generation.
I personally prefer Quick Draw, since generation up to 4 combat points with (sinster-strike-proc-plus-pistol-shot) makes getting to 5 combat points feel smoother compared to generation up to 3 combat points (especially for regaining 5 combo points after spending it). Like to get to 5 combat points with Quick Draw, one just needs 1 proc if they already have at least 1 combo point (like a non-proc plus a proc works, though the chance of 2 non-procs is (1-.35)^2=.65^2=.4225, a still significant chance), while weaponmaster needs just one proc to get to 5 if they already have at least 2 combat points (like from cheap shot) [and the chance of 2 non-procs is .55^2=.3025].
Plus a 2.5 multiplier for pistol shot feels nicer for burst than a 2.0 multiplier, though that's offset by the lower proc chance of getting that 2.5 multiplier.
That said though, a .45 chance to proc may feel better for others than .35, as a + is only a + if it occurs and is usable.
In summary though, with some simple expected value math (and verysimplistic assumptions) in the spoiler, Weaponmaster is a better improvement than Quick Draw on point 1., though Quick Draw is a little better than Weaponmaster for expected combat point generation.
When looking at sinister strike, for simplicity one can think of it as a (simple) random variable which yields either of the two possible values:
1. Single strike dealing D damage (with probability p=1-.35=.65)
2. Double strike dealing 2D damage and doubling the damage of [pistol shot=S] (with probability p=.35)
[In practice, one may delay using the pistol shot proc for different reasons, like if one's already at 5 combo points, or setting up a burst rotation if one needs to be set up against heals nullifying passive DPS, etc.]
And in terms of combo point generation:
1. Generates 1 combo point (probability 1-p=.65)
2. Generates 2+1=3 combo points (probability p=.35)
One way to look at a random variable includes looking at the expected value of that random variable, which is simply a weighted average, weighted by the probabilities of each event occurring. With that, and this simplicity form of a random variable, we get that the expected damage is
E(sinister strike)=(1-p)D+p(2D+2S)=(1+p)D+2pS
And the expected combat point generation is
E(combo point generation)=(1-p)(1)+p(3)=1+2p
With weaponmaster, p=.45 instead of .35, which yields
E(D_1)=(1.45)D+(.9)S
and
E(C_1)=1+2*.45
=1.9
While Quick Draw has p=.35, but increases the combo point generation of event (2.) by 1 to 2+2=4 combo points and increases the damage multiplier on pistol shot S from 2 to 2.5, yielding:
E(D_2)=(1.35)D+(2.5)(.35)S
=(1.35)D+(.875)S
and
E(C_2)=(1-p)(1)+p(4)=1+3p
=2.05.
With this, we get that E(D_1)>E(D_2) [since 1.45>1.35 and .9>.875], yet E(C_1)<E(C_2) [since 1.9<2.05].
With regards to comparing weaponmaster and quick draw, there's two different angles one can look at:
1. How much they improve the the expected damage of [sinister-strike plus the reduced-cost-and-stronger-pistol-shot], and
2. How much they improve the expected combat point generation.
I personally prefer Quick Draw, since generation up to 4 combat points with (sinster-strike-proc-plus-pistol-shot) makes getting to 5 combat points feel smoother compared to generation up to 3 combat points (especially for regaining 5 combo points after spending it). Like to get to 5 combat points with Quick Draw, one just needs 1 proc if they already have at least 1 combo point (like a non-proc plus a proc works, though the chance of 2 non-procs is (1-.35)^2=.65^2=.4225, a still significant chance), while weaponmaster needs just one proc to get to 5 if they already have at least 2 combat points (like from cheap shot) [and the chance of 2 non-procs is .55^2=.3025].
Plus a 2.5 multiplier for pistol shot feels nicer for burst than a 2.0 multiplier, though that's offset by the lower proc chance of getting that 2.5 multiplier.
That said though, a .45 chance to proc may feel better for others than .35, as a + is only a + if it occurs and is usable.
In summary though, with some simple expected value math (and verysimplistic assumptions) in the spoiler, Weaponmaster is a better improvement than Quick Draw on point 1., though Quick Draw is a little better than Weaponmaster for expected combat point generation.
When looking at sinister strike, for simplicity one can think of it as a (simple) random variable which yields either of the two possible values:
1. Single strike dealing D damage (with probability p=1-.35=.65)
2. Double strike dealing 2D damage and doubling the damage of [pistol shot=S] (with probability p=.35)
[In practice, one may delay using the pistol shot proc for different reasons, like if one's already at 5 combo points, or setting up a burst rotation if one needs to be set up against heals nullifying passive DPS, etc.]
And in terms of combo point generation:
1. Generates 1 combo point (probability 1-p=.65)
2. Generates 2+1=3 combo points (probability p=.35)
One way to look at a random variable includes looking at the expected value of that random variable, which is simply a weighted average, weighted by the probabilities of each event occurring. With that, and this simplicity form of a random variable, we get that the expected damage is
E(sinister strike)=(1-p)D+p(2D+2S)=(1+p)D+2pS
And the expected combat point generation is
E(combo point generation)=(1-p)(1)+p(3)=1+2p
With weaponmaster, p=.45 instead of .35, which yields
E(D_1)=(1.45)D+(.9)S
and
E(C_1)=1+2*.45
=1.9
While Quick Draw has p=.35, but increases the combo point generation of event (2.) by 1 to 2+2=4 combo points and increases the damage multiplier on pistol shot S from 2 to 2.5, yielding:
E(D_2)=(1.35)D+(2.5)(.35)S
=(1.35)D+(.875)S
and
E(C_2)=(1-p)(1)+p(4)=1+3p
=2.05.
With this, we get that E(D_1)>E(D_2) [since 1.45>1.35 and .9>.875], yet E(C_1)<E(C_2) [since 1.9<2.05].
Good it seems your math is about the same as mine so now I can with certainty know it's not wrong to assume that weaponmaster would be the better choice for an increase in "burst" whilst quick-draw would be better for combo-point generation i'm way too lazy to calculate the probability of procs in correlation with damage over a lets say 1 minute duel but I think everyone now who've read this have gotten themselves a good understanding of the talents. +5 rep to @Vandiir
Good it seems your math is about the same as mine so now I can with certainty know it's not wrong to assume that weaponmaster would be the better choice for an increase in "burst" whilst quick-draw would be better for combo-point generation
It's worth clarifying that weaponmaster increases the "expected" damage [proc] purely by increasing the chance of procs occurring, though it doesn't improve the numbers that follow once the proc appears, while Quick Draw improves Pistol Shot's damage, or even Ghost Strike with its damage and +10% damage-received-from-rogue debuff.
fuxk your rogue theory crafting. the players who’ve been playing rogues dont need to ask this shit. reroll fotm lazy coward trashbags do. rogue has always been at the top as far as playing one well goes. so where were all of you the past few xpacs? when aimed shot was broken people who werent piles of shit didn’t spec mm then. the community got behind and shunned, didnt heal, didnt invite mm garbage in games. i suggest the sane for this bullshit. fuck your rogues.
fuxk your rogue theory crafting. the players who’ve been playing rogues dont need to ask this shit. reroll fotm lazy coward trashbags do. rogue has always been at the top as far as playing one well goes. so where were all of you the past few xpacs? when aimed shot was broken people who werent piles of shit didn’t spec mm then. the community got behind and shunned, didnt heal, didnt invite mm garbage in games. i suggest the sane for this bullshit. fuck your rogues.
Also wanting to know what mathematically is the best isn't really what a "lazy fotm re-roller" would do, i'd probably do more than fine with whatever I pick but since i've been gone for 2 years I figured i'd ask. Get laid pal.
fuxk your rogue theory crafting. the players who’ve been playing rogues dont need to ask this shit. reroll fotm lazy coward trashbags do. rogue has always been at the top as far as playing one well goes. so where were all of you the past few xpacs? when aimed shot was broken people who werent piles of shit didn’t spec mm then. the community got behind and shunned, didnt heal, didnt invite mm garbage in games. i suggest the sane for this bullshit. fuck your rogues.
Lol you do know that the rogue class was completely changed in Legion? AntiStealth's theorycrafting has been of great help for me since I recently came back.
fuxk your rogue theory crafting. the players who’ve been playing rogues dont need to ask this shit. reroll fotm lazy coward trashbags do. rogue has always been at the top as far as playing one well goes. so where were all of you the past few xpacs? when aimed shot was broken people who werent piles of shit didn’t spec mm then. the community got behind and shunned, didnt heal, didnt invite mm garbage in games. i suggest the sane for this bullshit. fuck your rogues.
What sort of mileage have you been getting out of this? With how fast most things are dying in BGs, I'm not sure the investment of energy is worth the alleged damage boost, especially with that cooldown not resetting on target death like Murder of Crows.
What sort of mileage have you been getting out of this? With how fast most things are dying in BGs, I'm not sure the investment of energy is worth the alleged damage boost, especially with that cooldown not resetting on target death like Murder of Crows.
Ghostly strike costs the least energy out of every spell i have, it really comes in handy on heals and in 1v1 after ive run a full rotation on them and they might still be 1% or whatnot. The cooldowns never really bothered me, i get focuses the second i pop out of stealth so i dont try to stay in the open for too long anyways
I personally play with weaponmaster (swordmaster) always because even quick draw is the best talent to increase dps there are some situations you can get 10 sinisters strikes without a proc i even got the situation 15 in a row and no proc. So i run swordmaster with it i feel a ton procs that i need in ciertain situations like killing efc, example EFC with 1 healer situation, you sap healer open efc and you get 0 procs with quickdraw doing 0 damage or going sword master and get at least 1 proc out of 4.
Also this talent good for getting kills.
With this talent and correct gear rogues should be topping dps and kills. /Broken
[doublepost=1532523457,1532523345][/doublepost]Edit ghostly strike is useless unless you looking to hit hard with finisher.
