Oh blizzard <3

Soaps said:
I Agree. Let DPS do dps and let Healers HEAL.

I really am against Battle Fatigue - Spell - World of Warcraft, I gear my toon up so she can heal well ... then when I enter BGs I heal as though I'm wear greens.
Why did I spend all that time grinding for gear so i can Heal similar a Fresh toon.

People keep saying heals are fine, but I'd love to see how DPS would react if they nerf'd DPS to 45% less damage in general within BGs.

As i always say, Nerf Mana Regen ... Not HEALS.

"The story that makes no sense"

DPS: "Hi Missy are you a Healer?"
Healer: "Yes"
DPS: "Lets BG"
Healer: "Ok"
... Mins Later ...
Healer: "Why are my heals 45% less effective Mr DPS?, is your dps also 45% less effective in BGs?"
DPS: "Nope, I do my full damage"
Healer: "Well that makes sense ..."
Click to expand...

Because heals are ridiculous. Healing is in a good place now but damage needs a nerf for some classes.
DPS doesnt lose any damage in pvp?

Let me ask you a question.
What did you think Base Resillience was?

Healing outside of BGs is insane and I really wouldnt like PvP with 4k holy shocks and 2k flash heals. 500 rejuvs.
...
 
Goesid said:
Because heals are ridiculous. Healing is in a good place now but damage needs a nerf for some classes.
DPS doesnt lose any damage in pvp?

Let me ask you a question.
What did you think Base Resillience was?

Healing outside of BGs is insane and I really wouldnt like PvP with 4k holy shocks and 2k flash heals. 500 rejuvs.
...
Click to expand...


Which is why i agreed with Bison when he stated he wouldn't mind Hunter Cata Damage as long as Heals aren't they way they are now.

Resil is something that EVERYONE has.
But its only Healers who are affected by BF.

Also, I'm against Resil too. Not a fan of it. Needs to be removed.

And while you say heals are big doesn't mean they deserve a 45% Nerf. I was fine with 15%-20% BF, but 45% is too much.
All you people act like you're suppose to global a healer or just spam one button and expect that they die. And when a healer doesn't die everyone QQs that Heals are OP. Why cant people use CCs, Interupts etc. Everything can be countered.
People have very odd definitions of Over Powered. Just because you cant kill someone within your global or by spamming a single skill then they are considered OP. That's just not the case.

Resto Druids at a time where OP. Mobility, Heals, and Utility all with an endless Mana Pool. That to me is OP.
But if someone cant kill a healer because all the healer does is heal through the damage then that's not OP, that's an issue of one dimensional style of playing. You can't expect to just spam dps. Try use Stuns, Silences, Interrupts etc to stop heals. Use team play.
Why does everyone forget about team play?

UPDATE: Goesid has made some of my points irrelevant. BUT, I stand on what I said. The highlighted words.
 
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Base resilience nerfs PvP damage by 40%.
Battle Fatigue nerfs PvP healing by 45%.

I don't see much of a difference. Healing is perfectly fine with 45%, it still takes two good dps (notice the "good") to kill a healer.
And yes, I play all 4 healing classes.

OT: hunters surely didn't need a buff, but it's not a big one.
 
Magicz said:
Base resilience nerfs PvP damage by 40%.
Battle Fatigue nerfs PvP healing by 45%.

I don't see much of a difference. Healing is perfectly fine with 45%, it still takes two good dps (notice the "good") to kill a healer.
And yes, I play all 4 healing classes.

OT: hunters surely didn't need a buff, but it's not a big one.
Click to expand...

Thats why I'm agreeing to having Both removed and just played the way your toon is geared. Reduction in CC durations I'm fine with. But in a game that pits People vs People i don't know why Blizz would put barriers.
 
Resilience needs to come back to gear. What a waste of honour otherwise investing in all that gear. You can have your attack/dps set and your defense/fc/heal set.

5.0 heals were buffed silly and hunters/rogue had the DPS nerf.
5.2 had issues such as hit etc. However "Smart" players could take down a healer with coordination using skill / cc.

Now the game is just about DPS and who blows up who first quicker. Which is fine but all you see mostly are Hunters/Prots/Rogues...
 
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Soaps said:
Which is why i agreed with Bison when he stated he wouldn't mind Hunter Cata Damage as long as Heals aren't they way they are now.

Resil is something that EVERYONE has.
But its only Healers who are affected by BF.

Also, I'm against Resil too. Not a fan of it. Needs to be removed.

And while you say heals are big doesn't mean they deserve a 45% Nerf. I was fine with 15%-20% BF, but 45% is too much.
All you people act like you're suppose to global a healer or just spam one button and expect that they die. And when a healer doesn't die everyone QQs that Heals are OP. Why cant people use CCs, Interupts etc. Everything can be countered.
People have very odd definitions of Over Powered. Just because you cant kill someone within your global or by spamming a single skill then they are considered OP. That's just not the case.

Resto Druids at a time where OP. Mobility, Heals, and Utility all with an endless Mana Pool. That to me is OP.
But if someone cant kill a healer because all the healer does is heal through the damage then that's not OP, that's an issue of one dimensional style of playing. You can't expect to just spam dps. Try use Stuns, Silences, Interrupts etc to stop heals. Use team play.
Why does everyone forget about team play?
Click to expand...

My main is a shaman, ofcourse I'm affected by the BF but the heals in pre 5.3 were to strong in PvP. Damage needs a nerf and things will be fine and people cant let their eyepatches collect dust again. Battle Fatigue baselines are there because they are needed to keep the strong heals needed in end game PvE out of PvP. same goes for dmg.
 
Goesid said:
My main is a shaman, ofcourse I'm affected by the BF but the heals in pre 5.3 were to strong in PvP. Damage needs a nerf and things will be fine and people cant let their eyepatches collect dust again. Battle Fatigue baselines are there because they are needed to keep the strong heals needed in end game PvE out of PvP. same goes for dmg.
Click to expand...

Well like I have always said, its not an issue that Healers can heal for big amounts. It that they can heal for large amounts indefinitely.
Mana Regen really needs to be looked at.

I don't know how it is for the 90s atm. But we aren't 90s. I know its kinda pointless for me saying it since we are trials and blizz cares nothing for PvP below 90. But those are just my thoughts.

And yes, i know PvP will never be balanced. But it can be. Bizz just chooses to ignore PvP balance.


I suppose my gripe about the whole issue is that I know I have all this potential, yet i can utilize it due to barriers holding me back. Its not wishful thinking since I know I can ... Blizz just wont let me.
 
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Hunter Pets summoned by Stampede now only use auto-attacks against their target.
Click to expand...
Kind of big change there.. no extra disarm.
 
Soaps said:
Why cant people use CCs, Interupts etc. Everything can be countered.
Click to expand...

A non-panda/belf arms warrior has no CC except Charge which is a pretty bad source of CC, you saying that everything can be countered gets a laugh out of me, remember that paladins have Divine Shield but neither priests nor warriors have their respective dispels?

The statement 'everything can be countered' is false; 'a lot can be countered' is more accurate, like a shaman purging a priest's PWS or a druid's Rejuvenation, but for example, a good mage can't counter a good hunter, a good rogue can hardly counter a good druid, a warrior can't counter a rogue, hunter or anything really if you don't get some nice lucky crits because we lack Pummel and Heroic Leap or Intervene and we can't get enough expertise/we don't have Overpower.

I do agree on the part that a healer should be able to at least SURVIVE against 2 good dps, but there is 1 main problem: 3 of the 4 healer classes available to f2ps have simply too much DPS to just 'survive' against 2 dps, a good healer can easily 1v2 2 dps. The perfect healer/dps situation would be
Healer = very strong healing, really weak damage
DPS = close to no healing (minor selfheals to prevent getting blown up are fine), strong damage
Hybrid = decent healing, strong damage (I consider hybrids to be more focused on damage than on healing, hence 'decent' healing but 'strong' damage)


The bracket would be more balanced if it was Skill > Class > Gear, where it's Class >> Gear >>> Skill at the moment, there are simply too many hard counters.
 
Fujin0 said:
The statement 'everything can be countered' is false; 'a lot can be countered' is more accurate, like a shaman purging a priest's PWS or a druid's Rejuvenation, but for example, a good mage can't counter a good hunter, a good rogue can hardly counter a good druid, a warrior can't counter a rogue, hunter or anything really if you don't get some nice lucky crits because we lack Pummel and Heroic Leap or Intervene and we can't get enough expertise/we don't have Overpower.
Click to expand...

^ one of my friends used a term that I liked to describe it, its Rock Paper Scissors, its pretty stupid this expansion, because just for playing a class facing another class, you have relatively 0 chance of beating them, as long as they have a pulse.
 
Fujin0 said:
A non-panda/belf arms warrior has no CC except Charge which is a pretty bad source of CC, you saying that everything can be countered gets a laugh out of me, remember that paladins have Divine Shield but neither priests nor warriors have their respective dispels?

The statement 'everything can be countered' is false; 'a lot can be countered' is more accurate, like a shaman purging a priest's PWS or a druid's Rejuvenation, but for example, a good mage can't counter a good hunter, a good rogue can hardly counter a good druid, a warrior can't counter a rogue, hunter or anything really if you don't get some nice lucky crits because we lack Pummel and Heroic Leap or Intervene and we can't get enough expertise/we don't have Overpower.

I do agree on the part that a healer should be able to at least SURVIVE against 2 good dps, but there is 1 main problem: 3 of the 4 healer classes available to f2ps have simply too much DPS to just 'survive' against 2 dps, a good healer can easily 1v2 2 dps. The perfect healer/dps situation would be
Healer = very strong healing, really weak damage
DPS = close to no healing (minor selfheals to prevent getting blown up are fine), strong damage
Hybrid = decent healing, strong damage (I consider hybrids to be more focused on damage than on healing, hence 'decent' healing but 'strong' damage)


The bracket would be more balanced if it was Skill > Class > Gear, where it's Class >> Gear >>> Skill at the moment, there are simply too many hard counters.
Click to expand...



You miss understood. By "everything" i meant Every Heal type. I was talking about healing that whole time, not sure how you misunderstood that.


So with that explained "A non-panda/belf arms warrior" does have CCs against a healer. AT, Charge, Charge again if specced etc.
 
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Soaps said:
You miss understood, mainly because i wasn't that clear. By "everything" i meant Every Heal.
Click to expand...

Still, there is no counter against DS in the bracket, sure it's only 1/4 of healer classes, but it's not only the healers that have DS.
 
Soaps said:
DS isn't a Heal. I'm referring to Heals. Flash Heal, Nourish etc.


But I can understand the "pops DS then Heals to full HP" issue. But lucky that's not spammable.
Click to expand...

Paired with Paladin DPS it completely reset the fight against your favor...

also:
Soaps said:
belf arms warrior [...] AT
Click to expand...

This was meant as 'non-belf' as well
 
Fujin0 said:
Paired with Paladin DPS it completely reset the fight against your favor...
Click to expand...


Very true, which is why I mentioned why don't people use team play more often.
If you are busy chasing around people to kill on your own then you deserve to die to a Healer.
In the end PvP in WoW is just a mess. The simple fact that there are FotMs in WoW PvP every major patch illustrates that. Even hotfixes can turn the tide and favour a single class over others.
 
Soaps said:
Very true, which is why I mentioned why don't people use team play more often.
If you are busy chasing around people to kill on your own then you deserve to die to a Healer.
In the end PvP in WoW is just a mess. The simple fact that there are FotMs in WoW PvP every major patch illustrates that. Even hotfixes can turn the tide and favour a single class over others.
Click to expand...


I wasn't just talking about holy paladins, but let's leave it at us agreeing that something's wrong with the bracket. :)
 
Got into a BG on my arms warrior against 7 hunters. I couldn't even make it half way past mid, even with a healer with me.

I ended up going against my morals and AFK'd out since they were pushing towards our GY.
 
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